Thomas Jefferson a homophobe?

24

Comments

  • Uncle Leo
    Uncle Leo Posts: 1,059
    CorporateWhore wrote:
    Thomas Jefferson, author of the Declaration of Independence, drafted a bill concerning the criminal laws of Virginia in which he directed that the penalty for sodomy should be castration. See Thomas Jefferson, The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, Andrew A. Lipscomb, ed. (Washington, Thomas Jefferson Memorial Association, 1904) Vol. I, pp.226-27, from Jefferson's "For Proportioning Crimes and Punishments."

    http://www.citizensoldier.org/gaysinthemilitary.html

    Haha, "while I'm separating church and state, why don't we separate gay men's genitals."

    How is your liberal hero now? Is separation of church and state STILL so precious to you? Bahahahaaaaaaaa

    Well I don't like this at all. I guess I am now against the separation of Church and State. Who knew.
    I cannot come up with a new sig till I get this egg off my face.
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    hippiemom wrote:
    How is it your right to put a bunch of crap all over the property that all taxpayers, not just you, are paying for? Put your biblical nonsense on your own property.

    I say let Christians put the ten commandments in front of a court house, as long as they will erect a 15 ft tall statue of the FSM that I donate.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • CorporateWhore
    CorporateWhore Posts: 1,890
    RainDog wrote:
    I'm not so sure if you'd be saying this if some non-taxpayer entity wanted to put up giant statues of castrated gay cocks all over your public park or square. Erecting religious statues and what not in public is an endorsement by the state of a specific religion. Put them up on private land - public land is for everyone, even the Christ-punchers.

    And the state doesn't stop from expressing their religion in public. If you want bow your head in school and pray, I don't think anyone will stop you. However, you cannot force school prayer on students, as that would invariably violate someone else's freedom to express his or her religion.

    I think we basically agree on this issue. I don't want forced prayer or forced anything religious in any public arena.

    Still, I think the citizenry should be free to do what they want on public land, which is where we disagree. Your "gay cocks" example would probably be illegal since it is obscene...
    All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
    -Enoch Powell
  • CorporateWhore
    CorporateWhore Posts: 1,890
    RainDog wrote:
    How so? I'd say it's not your constitutional right to use our government and our public space to promote your private religion.

    Hahaha, that's absurd. Are you saying that I cannot stand on a public sidewalk (government owned) and distribute flyers? How far do you go when you say "promote"? What kind of speech is okay in regards to religion and what isn't?
    All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
    -Enoch Powell
  • hippiemom
    hippiemom Posts: 3,326
    mammasan wrote:
    I say let Christians put the ten commandments in front of a court house, as long as they will erect a 15 ft tall statue of the FSM that I donate.
    RAmen to that, brother! You're right, we should all be willing to compromise.

    People are going to like our statue SO much better :D
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    hippiemom wrote:
    Don't churches and religious people have front yards? Why do you want to clutter up the statehouse lawn?

    That just gave me an idea. Opponents of school prayer and religious monuments/documents on state grounds should get away from the same old Constitutional arguments by calling these things what they really are: graffiti and gang activity.


    hehehe.
    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • RainDog
    RainDog Posts: 1,824
    CorporateWhore wrote:
    Hahaha, that's absurd. Are you saying that I cannot stand on a public sidewalk (government owned) and distribute flyers? How far do you go when you say "promote"? What kind of speech is okay in regards to religion and what isn't?
    There is a difference between an individual distributing fliers (temporary) and a monument (permanent). For comparison, try building a leaflet distribution booth (of any kind) on public property and see how far you get.

    All "speech" is O.K. as far as religion is concerned. However, if you're going to take up space permanently, you better make sure it belongs to you. Further, I could also ask you - what if someone wanted to build a religious monument that took up an entire public square, essentially turning a park into a giant stone replica of the ten commandments - one that meets all four sidewalks surrounding it? Would that be the individual's constitutional right, or would he or she essentially be stealling public property for his or her own beliefs?
  • norm
    norm Posts: 31,146
    CorporateWhore wrote:
    I do like the theory of separation of church and state. I think liberals misapply it, though. I think it merely keeps the state from forming its own church.

    Now that made me laugh out loud.
  • norm
    norm Posts: 31,146
    CorporateWhore wrote:
    I think we basically agree on this issue. I don't want forced prayer or forced anything religious in any public arena.

    Still, I think the citizenry should be free to do what they want on public land, which is where we disagree. Your "gay cocks" example would probably be illegal since it is obscene...

    I find it obscene to have a depiction of the ten commandments on public property.
  • Rats of Multa
    Rats of Multa Posts: 250
    cincybearcat wrote:
    That is actually a very good question and a valid point. However, it only seems extreme today...it wouldn't have seemed that extreme back then.

    I wonder what in today's society will seem that extreme 100 years from now...death penalty...abortion...


    the criminalization of marijuana seems like a fair bet as one of the most absurd legalities [illegality] ever.
    we don’t know just where our bones will rest,
    to dust i guess,
    forgotten and absorbed into the earth below,..
  • MrBrian
    MrBrian Posts: 2,672
    cincybearcat wrote:
    That is actually a very good question and a valid point. However, it only seems extreme today...it wouldn't have seemed that extreme back then.

    I wonder what in today's society will seem that extreme 100 years from now...death penalty...abortion...

    dude, If the world makes it that far. But yeah, that's something interesting to wonder about.
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,880
    cutback wrote:
    I find it obscene to have a depiction of the ten commandments on public property.

    Obscene? Really? Why obscene?

    I think you can disagree with something, but obscene? A bit of a stretch.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • miller8966
    miller8966 Posts: 1,450
    Rats of Multa wrote:
    the criminalization of marijuana seems like a fair bet as one of the most absurd legalities [illegality] ever.

    Its a drug....
    America...the greatest Country in the world.
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    miller8966 wrote:
    Its a drug....

    point being?
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • norm
    norm Posts: 31,146
    cincybearcat wrote:
    Obscene? Really? Why obscene?

    I think you can disagree with something, but obscene? A bit of a stretch.

    I was responding to this.
    CorporateWhore wrote:
    Still, I think the citizenry should be free to do what they want on public land, which is where we disagree. Your "gay cocks" example would probably be illegal since it is obscene...

    My point is obscenity is in the eye of the beholder. If I were to put a huge phallus in front of a public museum as a form of art, many would find it obscene yet some could appreciate it as art. So if a depiction of the ten commandments were to be installed in a public building many would object to it but some would find it appropriate. My point is neither should be on public property. If a private museum wants to exhibit the phallus, great. And there are churches everywhere that can have as many religious symbols that they want.

    I hope I made sense.:)
  • PaperPlates
    PaperPlates Posts: 1,745
    the asshole was designed for exit only
    Why go home

    www.myspace.com/jensvad
  • CorporateWhore
    CorporateWhore Posts: 1,890
    PaperPlates wrote:
    the asshole was designed for exit only

    haha

    That's hate speech!!!!1 :D
    All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
    -Enoch Powell
  • cornnifer
    cornnifer Posts: 2,130
    hippiemom wrote:
    You assume that, were he alive today, he would still hold 18th century views. I think that's unlikely. He was progressive for his time, my guess is that he would be progressive in our time too.

    This was my first thought. A homophobe in the 18th century. Imagine that!!
    "When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
  • PaperPlates
    PaperPlates Posts: 1,745
    CorporateWhore wrote:
    haha

    That's hate speech!!!!1 :D


    No, its science. Thats why it puckers. Because it doesn't want to be entered. :p
    Why go home

    www.myspace.com/jensvad
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    While our Founding Fathers may have had a brilliant idea when creating a democracy not all of their beliefs and ideals where top notch. First of all there is slavery. Next you have the fact that only land owners where allowed to vote, non-land owners, woman, and and non-white males where not allowed to parake in the election of government officials. All of these injustices have since been rectified so just because Jefferson thought that homosexuals should castrated doesn't mean he was right or that it was one of his brighter ideas.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul

Categories