What is a Nation?

CorporateWhoreCorporateWhore Posts: 1,890
edited January 2007 in A Moving Train
I'm currently reading Pat Buchanan's book "State of Emergency: The Third World Invasion and Conquest of America."

There is a chapter that defines what a nation is and what it is not. I find Buchanan's beliefs very interesting and, after thinking about his arguments, I find them very convincing.

I would first like to find out what everyone else thinks a nation is.
All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
-Enoch Powell
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
    A community of people residing in a defined territory under one government.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • know1know1 Posts: 6,794
    I don't really believe in nationalism. I wish it would go away.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • mammasan wrote:
    A community of people residing in a defined territory under one government.

    The former USSR? Many different languages, cultures, and religions were encompassed in the defined territory and led by one government.

    After the breakup of the USSR, numerous "nations" emerged. Latvia, Czechoslovakia, the Ukraine, etc. Were those nations present during the USSR's rule or do you believe they identified themselves as "Communist Soviets."
    All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
    -Enoch Powell
  • know1 wrote:
    I don't really believe in nationalism. I wish it would go away.

    What would you prefer?
    All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
    -Enoch Powell
  • mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
    The former USSR? Many different languages, cultures, and religions were encompassed in the defined territory and led by one government.

    After the breakup of the USSR, numerous "nations" emerged. Latvia, Czechoslovakia, the Ukraine, etc. Were those nations present during the USSR's rule or do you believe they identified themselves as "Communist Soviets."

    I belive that it was a union of nations under one form of government, hence the name Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. The satelite states where not independent within the union since Moscow was the seat of the federal government. The federal government probably did not define those states as independent nations, but the citizenry of each individual state probably did, this is an assumption since I did not live in the Soviet Union I would have no idea how the people within defined themselves.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • worldworld Posts: 266
    What about "White Sox Nation" when refering to the large group of Chicago White Sox fans?
    Chicago '98, Noblesville '00, East Troy '00, Chicago '00, Champaign '03, Chicago '03, Chicago1 '06, Chicago2 '06, Milwaukee '06, Chicago1 '09, and Chicago2 '09
  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    A social percept
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • I define a nation as a group of people bonded by shared culture, language, religion, and/or race. I believe there is a race of Americans that goes beyond ethnicity.

    I'm half irish, part english russian polish scottish etc. But I'm an American.

    When I say "One nation, under God," I see that nation as American. I believe an American speaks english, is protestant/catholic/jewish, and has an attachment to their homeland and other Americans. An American has a bond with the land he grew up on and its people. An American knows our history and culture. They speak a certain way and know certain facets about our people that a visiting foreigner could never understand.

    There are people who live in America that do not fall under these criteria. I really don't feel they are a part of my nation. "Hyphenated-Americans" are not American. People that identify their nation of origin before America are not Americans - they should go back to their country. You can either be Dutch or you can be American.

    The reason a national identity is important is that a country cannot stand on weak ideological moors. Anyone can't be an American, it takes time and education about our culture and way of life. Men fought in WWII because they were fighting for their way of life - not for vapid things like our "shared economy" or "liberty." They were defending their country and its people.

    When you don't expect your immigrants to assimilate, you cannot expect them to care about their country beyond the financial benefits that come from living there. Real Americans care more about our shared experience and culture than they care about the money they can make here. The immigrants care about coming here, making money, and sending it back to their "home country." I say, go back to your home country.
    All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
    -Enoch Powell
  • mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
    When I say "One nation, under God," I see that nation as American. I believe an American speaks english, is protestant/catholic/jewish, and has an attachment to their homeland and other Americans. An American has a bond with the land he grew up on and its people. An American knows our history and culture. They speak a certain way and know certain facets about our people that a visiting foreigner could never understand.

    You know Hitler once thought along those lines. Look how that ended up.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
    I define a nation as a group of people bonded by shared culture, language, religion, and/or race. I believe there is a race of Americans that goes beyond ethnicity.

    I'm half irish, part english russian polish scottish etc. But I'm an American.

    When I say "One nation, under God," I see that nation as American. I believe an American speaks english, is protestant/catholic/jewish, and has an attachment to their homeland and other Americans. An American has a bond with the land he grew up on and its people. An American knows our history and culture. They speak a certain way and know certain facets about our people that a visiting foreigner could never understand.

    There are people who live in America that do not fall under these criteria. I really don't feel they are a part of my nation. "Hyphenated-Americans" are not American. People that identify their nation of origin before America are not Americans - they should go back to their country. You can either be Dutch or you can be American.

    The reason a national identity is important is that a country cannot stand on weak ideological moors. Anyone can't be an American, it takes time and education about our culture and way of life. Men fought in WWII because they were fighting for their way of life - not for vapid things like our "shared economy" or "liberty." They were defending their country and its people.

    When you don't expect your immigrants to assimilate, you cannot expect them to care about their country beyond the financial benefits that come from living there. Real Americans care more about our shared experience and culture than they care about the money they can make here. The immigrants care about coming here, making money, and sending it back to their "home country." I say, go back to your home country.

    I guess you missed my post on the immigration thread where I showed some examples of how 3rd world immigrant vastly improved the neighborhoods and communities they inhabited. Then again the words would probably be wasted on one with such a warped concept of what this country should be.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    A nation is defined by it's borders, everything else is ontologically subjective.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • mammasan wrote:
    You know Hitler once thought along those lines. Look how that ended up.

    Nah, no he didn't.
    All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
    -Enoch Powell
  • mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
    Nah, no he didn't.

    Sorry to burst your bubble, but yes he did. His road to achieving a perfect Germany where more extreme but he much like you wanted to narrow down the population to a certain group. Very similiar to what you are proposing. The only difference I see is that he wanted to wipe the people who did meet his criteria off the face of the earth you just don't want them here in this country.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • I define a nation as a group of people bonded by shared culture, language, religion, and/or race. I believe there is a race of Americans that goes beyond ethnicity.

    I'm half irish, part english russian polish scottish etc. But I'm an American.

    When I say "One nation, under God," I see that nation as American. I believe an American speaks english, is protestant/catholic/jewish, and has an attachment to their homeland and other Americans. An American has a bond with the land he grew up on and its people. An American knows our history and culture. They speak a certain way and know certain facets about our people that a visiting foreigner could never understand.

    There are people who live in America that do not fall under these criteria. I really don't feel they are a part of my nation. "Hyphenated-Americans" are not American. People that identify their nation of origin before America are not Americans - they should go back to their country. You can either be Dutch or you can be American.

    The reason a national identity is important is that a country cannot stand on weak ideological moors. Anyone can't be an American, it takes time and education about our culture and way of life. Men fought in WWII because they were fighting for their way of life - not for vapid things like our "shared economy" or "liberty." They were defending their country and its people.

    When you don't expect your immigrants to assimilate, you cannot expect them to care about their country beyond the financial benefits that come from living there. Real Americans care more about our shared experience and culture than they care about the money they can make here. The immigrants care about coming here, making money, and sending it back to their "home country." I say, go back to your home country.

    Yep...definitely sounds like you've been reading Buchanan. These views are extremely disturbing...Hitlerian, skinhead psychobabble.

    I say eff your twisted view of America. I like going to my local Irish pub or the ristorante down the street or the bodega on the corner, and having fun trying to understand what the hell the employees in all these places are talking about when they're trying to help me pick something out or make a suggestion. I like the Muslim family who lives in the apartment above me, and the Jamaican family next to me (they speak English too).

    How many times have you seriously tried to talk to any of these so-called hyphenated-Americans about these issues? My guess is, not enough or never. If you did, you'd realize these people care more about our shared culture than people like you.
  • mammasan wrote:
    I guess you missed my post on the immigration thread where I showed some examples of how 3rd world immigrant vastly improved the neighborhoods and communities they inhabited. Then again the words would probably be wasted on one with such a warped concept of what this country should be.

    That's all well and good. If they refuse to become Americans, then they should go back to their country.

    They've probably become swell Americans, I don't know.

    Nonetheless, we need to halt immigration from third world countries. There's too many coming in and not enough time to assimilate them - I don't care how great their communities look, they're probably not learning english and becoming American.
    All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
    -Enoch Powell
  • That's all well and good. If they refuse to become Americans, then they should go back to their country.

    They've probably become swell Americans, I don't know.

    Nonetheless, we need to halt immigration from third world countries. There's too many coming in and not enough time to assimilate them - I don't care how great their communities look, they're probably not learning english and becoming American.

    Your version of what life should be like is scary.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
    Saturnal wrote:
    Yep...definitely sounds like you've been reading Buchanan. These views are extremely disturbing...Hitlerian, skinhead psychobabble.

    I say eff your twisted view of America. I like going to my local Irish pub or the ristorante down the street or the bodega on the corner, and having fun trying to understand what the hell the employees in all these places are talking about when they're trying to help me pick something out or make a suggestion. I like the Muslim family who lives in the apartment above me, and the Jamaican family next to me (they speak English too).

    How many times have you seriously tried to talk to any of these so-called hyphenated-Americans about these issues? My guess is, not enough or never. If you did, you'd realize these people care more about our shared culture than people like you.

    I live in a neighborhood that less than a decade ago was falling to shit. Since then a large influx of South Americans and Asians have entered this community. 10 years ago there wher decrepid factories long abandoned blotting the town. Houses unkept and condemned up and down streets. Now you have new homes proping up everywhere in this town. They are building a brand new major League Soccer stadium where abandoned factories once where. new luxury townhomes are popping up. All because of the hard work that these 3rd world immigrants did. What once was a dying community is now one of the top 20 places to live in this state. I can walk out of my house and get some Fish & Chips, from the Scottish pub, or go to the Cuban resturaunt and get some Ropa Vieja, or the Brazilian Bar-B-Q resturaunt and get myself some Churrasco Misto, or even head over to the Spanish/Portuegese resturaunt for some amazing pailla. The diversity of the community is beautiful. People from all over come to the area resturaunts for the food and atmosphere. What was once a blight is now a thriving propering community which was made possible by hard working immigrants from dirt poor 3rd world countries.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • Saturnal wrote:
    Yep...definitely sounds like you've been reading Buchanan. These views are extremely disturbing...Hitlerian, skinhead psychobabble.

    I say eff your twisted view of America. I like going to my local Irish pub or the ristorante down the street or the bodega on the corner, and having fun trying to understand what the hell the employees in all these places are talking about when they're trying to help me pick something out or make a suggestion. I like the Muslim family who lives in the apartment above me, and the Jamaican family next to me (they speak English too).

    How many times have you seriously tried to talk to any of these so-called hyphenated-Americans about these issues? My guess is, not enough or never. If you did, you'd realize these people care more about our shared culture than people like you.

    Wtf are you talking about? You have no idea what I wrote.

    I have no problem with those people living here. Nonetheless, they need to be Americans first - not "Pakistani-Americans" or "Italian-Americans." Americans. I know a ton of different people at my college from all backgrounds. They all have their separate cultural group meetings that they attend.

    I say, attend one meeting: the American cultural group meeting.

    I'm not arguing against Irish bars or Italian restaurants. I'm arguing in favor of "the melting pot." Too many ethnic groups segregate themselves and refuse to integrate with the rest of society. They only hangout with people from their own ethnic group. THEY'RE the racists. I want more cultural integration.


    You want the white man to be forced to adopt all of the other cultures but none of the other cultures should be forced to adopt anything from the white man. This is a MELTING POT. They give and I give, they take and I take. The only way that exchange can take place is if they learn english and build an attachment to this country through patriotism. White Americans DO have a culture and it is just as good and should be just as respected as other cultures.
    All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
    -Enoch Powell
  • mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
    That's all well and good. If they refuse to become Americans, then they should go back to their country.

    They've probably become swell Americans, I don't know.

    Nonetheless, we need to halt immigration from third world countries. There's too many coming in and not enough time to assimilate them - I don't care how great their communities look, they're probably not learning english and becoming American.

    Like I said the words would be lost on one with such a warped concept of America.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • I live in a neighborhood that less than a decade ago was falling to shit. Since then a large influx of South Americans and Asians have entered this community. 10 years ago there wher decrepid factories long abandoned blotting the town. Houses unkept and condemned up and down streets. Now you have new homes proping up everywhere in this town. They are building a brand new major League Soccer stadium where abandoned factories once where. new luxury townhomes are popping up. All because of the hard work that these 3rd world immigrants did. What once was a dying community is now one of the top 20 places to live in this state. I can walk out of my house and get some Fish & Chips, from the Scottish pub, or go to the Cuban resturaunt and get some Ropa Vieja, or the Brazilian Bar-B-Q resturaunt and get myself some Churrasco Misto, or even head over to the Spanish/Portuegese resturaunt for some amazing pailla. The diversity of the community is beautiful. People from all over come to the area resturaunts for the food and atmosphere. What was once a blight is now a thriving propering community which was made possible by hard working immigrants from dirt poor 3rd world countries.

    nice. where in Jersey?
  • Your version of what life should be like is scary.

    Yours is equally scary: a dirt poor third world America.
    All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
    -Enoch Powell
  • I'm not arguing against Irish bars or Italian restaurants. I'm arguing in favor of "the melting pot." Too many ethnic groups segregate themselves and refuse to integrate with the rest of society. They only hangout with people from their own ethnic group. THEY'RE the racists. I want more cultural integration.

    I understand what you're saying perfectly...you just have no clue what a melting pot means.
    You want the white man to be forced to adopt all of the other cultures but none of the other cultures should be forced to adopt anything from the white man. This is a MELTING POT. They give and I give, they take and I take. The only way that exchange can take place is if they learn english and build an attachment to this country through patriotism. White Americans DO have a culture and it is just as good and should be just as respected as other cultures.

    The white man? hahaha

    YOU are the one who wants people to be forced to adopt a certain culture, not me.
  • mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
    Saturnal wrote:
    nice. where in Jersey?

    I live in Kearny, NJ but the whole area is currently in the midst of a revitalization, brought upon by those dirty 3rd world people. The Ironbound section of Newark, which is only 2 miles from me, is an amazing place. You have some of the best Spanish/Portuegese restuarants. After the Newark riots the mostly Polish and Italian inhabitants of the area legt and the Ironbound section started to decay. In comes these dirty non-white non-Americans and start rebuilding the area. Their work in Ironbound draws the attention of investors and soon the entire city starts to prosper. Newark just finished construction on a new public transportation system. Newark is now the home of the New Jersey Performing Arts Center and the future home of the New Jersey Devils. Harrison, NJ which is town directly between Kearny and Newark. Was full of large abondoned factories since I was a child. Again dirty 3rd world people move in and start building up their neighborhood. Aagin it draws the attention of investors and now Harrison will be the future home of the New York/New Jersey Metro Star. They have just finished contruction of many riverfront town homes. New townhomes and luxury apratments are in the works and an extension of the Hudson-Bergen Lightrail line is in the works. Kearny also following the trend in Harrison and Newark is also in the planning stage of two corporate campuses is the South Kearny area of town where 75% of the space has already been leased. There is a Riverfront development project underworks to build 150 new townhome units. A town that native MAerican had allowed to fall off the face of the map is now one of the top 20 communities to live in in New Jersey. All of this is a product of immigranst from dirty 3rd world countries. The native born Americans gave up on this area, abandoned it to decay. While these non-Americans come in here and rebuild the community. Make something that people can be proud of, but they don't care about this country because they still hold onto to aspects of their native culture and haven't fallen in line with white America.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • Red Sox Nation
  • mammasan wrote:
    I live in Kearny, NJ but the whole area is currently in the midst of a revitalization, brought upon by those dirty 3rd world people. The Ironbound section of Newark, which is only 2 miles from me, is an amazing place. You have some of the best Spanish/Portuegese restuarants. After the Newark riots the mostly Polish and Italian inhabitants of the area legt and the Ironbound section started to decay. In comes these dirty non-white non-Americans and start rebuilding the area. Their work in Ironbound draws the attention of investors and soon the entire city starts to prosper. Newark just finished construction on a new public transportation system. Newark is now the home of the New Jersey Performing Arts Center and the future home of the New Jersey Devils. Harrison, NJ which is town directly between Kearny and Newark. Was full of large abondoned factories since I was a child. Again dirty 3rd world people move in and start building up their neighborhood. Aagin it draws the attention of investors and now Harrison will be the future home of the New York/New Jersey Metro Star. They have just finished contruction of many riverfront town homes. New townhomes and luxury apratments are in the works and an extension of the Hudson-Bergen Lightrail line is in the works. Kearny also following the trend in Harrison and Newark is also in the planning stage of two corporate campuses is the South Kearny area of town where 75% of the space has already been leased. There is a Riverfront development project underworks to build 150 new townhome units. A town that native MAerican had allowed to fall off the face of the map is now one of the top 20 communities to live in in New Jersey. All of this is a product of immigranst from dirty 3rd world countries. The native born Americans gave up on this area, abandoned it to decay. While these non-Americans come in here and rebuild the community. Make something that people can be proud of, but they don't care about this country because they still hold onto to aspects of their native culture and haven't fallen in line with white America.

    What do you have against the "Enter" key? What did the paragraph ever do to you?
    All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
    -Enoch Powell
  • mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
    What do you have against the "Enter" key? What did the paragraph ever do to you?

    I'll take your lack of an intelligent comment as me proving you wrong.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • yield2meyield2me Posts: 1,291
    I'm currently reading Pat Buchanan's book "State of Emergency: The Third World Invasion and Conquest of America."

    There is a chapter that defines what a nation is and what it is not. I find Buchanan's beliefs very interesting and, after thinking about his arguments, I find them very convincing.

    I would first like to find out what everyone else thinks a nation is.


    Why would you ever read Pat Buchanan's book? That guy is crrrrraaaaazzzyy!
    “May you live to be 100 and may the last voice you hear be mine.” - Frank Sinatra
  • Gary CarterGary Carter Posts: 14,067
    mammasan wrote:
    I'll take your lack of an intelligent comment as me proving you wrong.
    way to go mammasan u have shown what amercia truly is all along in this thread.if more amercians think like u do,this country wouldnt be so fucked up.on a side note,i cant wait till the new soccer stadium is bulit
    Ron: I just don't feel like going out tonight
    Sammi: Wanna just break up?

  • Fuck soccer.

    Here's a good quote from one of our FOUNDERS George Washington that expresses his view that immigrants should not be allowed to congregate, but should be spread among the people:

    "The policy of immigration taking place in a body (I mean settling them in a body) may be much questioned; for, by so doing, they retain the language, habits, and principles (good or bad) which they bring with them. Whereas by an intermixture with our people, they or their descendents get assimilated to our customs and laws: in a word soon become one people."

    What's wrong with becoming one people? Why is George Washington wrong and you all are right?

    Was Washington a bad American?
    All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
    -Enoch Powell
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