if you want to be technical about it, I'm pretty sure God does want us to be good b/c it honors him...we shouldn't do good b/c it elevates us in mankinds eyes.
and no, God isn't American (had to keep it somewhat pertinent to the thread)
...
To Honor Him? Is God really that vain? Did He create us for the purpose of having something that worships Him?
And what I said is that you should be good just because... not for recognition by other men. Do you need someone watching you to make sure you are being good?
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
you know you can't win. Since Kurt is left leaning, he couldn't have meant anything wrong by it.
This is pathetically hypocritical.
You know if Bush said something similar like "Those Democrats are so gay" there would be outrage on this board. Yet, for Kurt to make a homophobic comment, people suddenly defend him?!!
This complete inconsistency and hypocrisy is why many of your views cannot be taken seriously.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
...
To Honor Him? Is God really that vain? Did He create us for the purpose of having something that worships Him?
And what I said is that you should be good just because... not for recognition by other men. Do you need someone watching you to make sure you are being good?
look at it from a Christian perspective. If you have chosen to model your life and your values after God's teachings, of course you would want to worship him and do things to glorify Him. Remember the presuppositions of Christians. He created everything and deserves the glory for it (that's one of many). God doesn't need the ego stroke of Christians or anyone. But from our view we want to do things b/c we love God. If you pledge your life to your wife or child it's very similar. You want to do things out of an inner love and longing for those people. But this is a discussion for another time and place.
make sure the fortune that you seek...is the fortune that you need
You know if Bush said something similar like "Those Democrats are so gay" there would be outrage on this board. Yet, for Kurt to make a homophobic comment, people suddenly defend him?!!
This complete inconsistency and hypocrisy is why many of your views cannot be taken seriously.
I'm not defending him. I was pointing out what you just pointed out.
also, why don't you ask for clarification instead of trying to call me out??
make sure the fortune that you seek...is the fortune that you need
You know if Bush said something similar like "Those Democrats are so gay" there would be outrage on this board. Yet, for Kurt to make a homophobic comment, people suddenly defend him?!!
This complete inconsistency and hypocrisy is why many of your views cannot be taken seriously.
It was the 90s and fucking everyone was saying "That's gay". It didn't mean homosexual when they were saying it..........just as in saying "Fuck" doesn't always mean having sex.............Now, it's not PC to say "that's gay"..........................thanks for taking that away from all of us! It was such a fun word for the time it lasted, lol.
I'm not defending him. I was pointing out what you just pointed out.
also, why don't you ask for clarification instead of trying to call me out??
Sorry. I wasn't trying to call you out specifically. I just meant, in general, I can't believe that people are defending the use of a homophobic remark.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Sorry. I wasn't trying to call you out specifically. I just meant, in general, I can't believe that people are defending the use of a homophobic remark.
...
I call my Gay friends, 'Queers' or 'Homos' all the time. I'm not afraid of them and they aren't offended by it coming from me. Maybe it's because they know i don't hate them.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Sorry. I wasn't trying to call you out specifically. I just meant, in general, I can't believe that people are defending the use of a homophobic remark.
ok, no worries. I know what you mean though, it clearly is a deragatory statement no matter how you slice it.
make sure the fortune that you seek...is the fortune that you need
If you're using the term "gay" in a derogatory manner, you're making a homophobic comment in my opinion.
Kurt was definitely not a homophobe. How do you know he used it in a derogatory manner? Maybe he just made a statement like some women say "god is a woman."
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
sorry. i was trying to say kurt didn't use "gay" as in homosexual.
and no. i think when kurt used it in this particular way, he meant lame or stupid. that's just my guess. i think everyone uses it in their own way, depends on the person or what they are talking about when they use that word. i know when i say "that's gay" as in "that movie was gay" it just means sappy or just plain crappy.
dont worry dude.I say them thing's too.Who gives a fuck.I aint gonna tredd carefully for a few faggott's. Yea thas right i said FAGGOTT'S. We dont need this scum in America. If I had my way Ide a popped a couple a pellet's in they ass. Shit what was this thread about again!!!!
i bet i sound lika dork right now,but im not,ima jus pissed at all this shit!!!!
I’d thank my lucky stars,
to be livin here today.
‘Cause the flag still stands for freedom,
and they can’t take that away.
And I’m proud to be an American,
where at least I know I’m free.
And I wont forget the men who died,
who gave that right to me.
dont worry dude.I say them thing's too.Who gives a fuck.I aint gonna tredd carefully for a few faggott's. Yea thas right i said FAGGOTT'S. We dont need this scum in America. If I had my way Ide a popped a couple a pellet's in they ass. Shit what was this thread about again!!!!
i bet i sound lika dork right now,but im not,ima jus pissed at all this shit!!!!
There's just no way you're not here to fuck with us.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
if God is an American........hes probably a masochist also then, harbouring fantasies involving female russian shotputters as prison officers with Himself as the insolent prisoner in need of putting in His place
dont worry dude.I say them thing's too.Who gives a fuck.I aint gonna tredd carefully for a few faggott's. Yea thas right i said FAGGOTT'S. We dont need this scum in America. If I had my way Ide a popped a couple a pellet's in they ass. Shit what was this thread about again!!!!
i bet i sound lika dork right now,but im not,ima jus pissed at all this shit!!!!
You never disappoint
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
i had a few beers when i wrote that. and i don't think kurt used "gay" in a derogatory way, either. i think he meant gay as in lame or stupid. i just thought it was a funny quote, that's all.
I always assumed he meant gay as in happy, cheerful, which was the original usage of the word. why would he mean it as stupid?????
...
It's the same principle as Santa Claus... he knows when you've been bad or good, so be good for goodness sake.
In other words... be good because you are being monitored and there are rewards and punishments attached to your behaviour. Be good and it's Heaven and toys, bad and it's Hell and a lump of coal.
Your goodness is based in fear and/or want... not necessarily because of the goodness of your heart. As an example; You would think thay your charity should be unconditional... that is, no reward or congratulations attached to it. Nor should you be charitable out of fear. I would think that God wants us to be good because it is what we should be doing, not because we have to.
That's how I figure.
But, what you're describing is a situation where people are being good only because they are being watched. So, here's your quote again:
If you believe God is watching, I would think you would do good things because you are a good person, not because you have a condition attached to it.
So, using your santa claus analogy, what you're saying is that people who behave because there are external rewards and consequences are people who are good, and who are not doing so because of conditions.
But were it not for those conditions, these people would not be good under your logic. There always has to be someone or something "watching over". That just means they are behaving because they are afraid of whoever is watching.
dont worry dude.I say them thing's too.Who gives a fuck.I aint gonna tredd carefully for a few faggott's. Yea thas right i said FAGGOTT'S. We dont need this scum in America. If I had my way Ide a popped a couple a pellet's in they ass. Shit what was this thread about again!!!!
i bet i sound lika dork right now,but im not,ima jus pissed at all this shit!!!!
My initial thought was to post that "even President Tom think's you've gone too far." But I'm guessing, he's in your corner :(
And you ask me what I want this year
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
But, what you're describing is a situation where people are being good only because they are being watched. So, here's your quote again:
So, using your santa claus analogy, what you're saying is that people who behave because there are external rewards and consequences are people who are good, and who are not doing so because of conditions.
But were it not for those conditions, these people would not be good under your logic. There always has to be someone or something "watching over". That just means they are behaving because they are afraid of whoever is watching.
...
Yes. That is my point.
People who tell me God (or Santa Claus) is watching me, therefore, I must be good if I want the reward of Heaven (and toys) and/or avoid the punishment of Hell (and lumps of coal) are telling me "Be Good... or Else". That is called a condition on my behaviour.
Shouldn't I be told I should be good... because it is the right thing to do? Shouldn't I do the right thing... even when no one, including God and Santa Claus, is watching? Should everyone be good because it is simply the right thing to do?
Why are we told to be fearful of God?
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
...
Yes. That is my point.
People who tell me God (or Santa Claus) is watching me, therefore, I must be good if I want the reward of Heaven (and toys) and/or avoid the punishment of Hell (and lumps of coal). That is called a condition on my behaviour.
Shouldn't I be told I should be good... because it is the right thing to do? Shouldn't I do the right thing... even when no one, including God and Santa Claus, is watching? Should everyone be good because it is simply the right thing to do?
Why are we told to be fearful of God?
I don't think a desire for reward or fear of punishment is what makes people good. Those things are what make them act good.
I don't think a desire for reward or fear of punishment is what makes people good. Those things are what make them act good.
...
Acting good (in order to receive a reward, i.e. God's Love) and actually being good are two different things, right? So, an Atheist who is a good person will get into Heaven, right?
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
...
Acting good (in order to receive a reward, i.e. God's Love) and actually being good are two different things, right? So, an Atheist who is a good person will get into Heaven, right?
Atheists believe in neither heaven nor hell. Heaven and hell are the creations of religion, so whatever criteria is required for admission into either are determined by whichever religion is being discussed for the purpose of example.
Under the christian doctrine, a person who leads a moral lifestyle yet does not acknowledge god will not get into heaven. So, if christianity is reality, then an atheist who is good will not get into heaven, assuming that it exists.
Comments
you know you can't win. Since Kurt is left leaning, he couldn't have meant anything wrong by it.
To Honor Him? Is God really that vain? Did He create us for the purpose of having something that worships Him?
And what I said is that you should be good just because... not for recognition by other men. Do you need someone watching you to make sure you are being good?
Hail, Hail!!!
This is pathetically hypocritical.
You know if Bush said something similar like "Those Democrats are so gay" there would be outrage on this board. Yet, for Kurt to make a homophobic comment, people suddenly defend him?!!
This complete inconsistency and hypocrisy is why many of your views cannot be taken seriously.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
look at it from a Christian perspective. If you have chosen to model your life and your values after God's teachings, of course you would want to worship him and do things to glorify Him. Remember the presuppositions of Christians. He created everything and deserves the glory for it (that's one of many). God doesn't need the ego stroke of Christians or anyone. But from our view we want to do things b/c we love God. If you pledge your life to your wife or child it's very similar. You want to do things out of an inner love and longing for those people. But this is a discussion for another time and place.
I'm not defending him. I was pointing out what you just pointed out.
also, why don't you ask for clarification instead of trying to call me out??
Sorry. I wasn't trying to call you out specifically. I just meant, in general, I can't believe that people are defending the use of a homophobic remark.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
I call my Gay friends, 'Queers' or 'Homos' all the time. I'm not afraid of them and they aren't offended by it coming from me. Maybe it's because they know i don't hate them.
Hail, Hail!!!
ok, no worries. I know what you mean though, it clearly is a deragatory statement no matter how you slice it.
Why exactly is it a homophobic comment?
naděje umírá poslední
-Jean-Jacques Rousseau
If you're using the term "gay" in a derogatory manner, you're making a homophobic comment in my opinion.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Kurt was definitely not a homophobe. How do you know he used it in a derogatory manner? Maybe he just made a statement like some women say "god is a woman."
naděje umírá poslední
Some people are just wordophobes.
Another habit says its long overdue
Another habit like an unwanted friend
I'm so happy with my righteous self
i bet i sound lika dork right now,but im not,ima jus pissed at all this shit!!!!
to be livin here today.
‘Cause the flag still stands for freedom,
and they can’t take that away.
And I’m proud to be an American,
where at least I know I’m free.
And I wont forget the men who died,
who gave that right to me.
There's just no way you're not here to fuck with us.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
no but we bought Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny.
ds
And no one makes me close my eyes
So I throw the windows wide
And call to you across the sky....
Someone said it in a newsgroup a long time ago and I kept it because I thought it was clever.
But, what you're describing is a situation where people are being good only because they are being watched. So, here's your quote again:
So, using your santa claus analogy, what you're saying is that people who behave because there are external rewards and consequences are people who are good, and who are not doing so because of conditions.
But were it not for those conditions, these people would not be good under your logic. There always has to be someone or something "watching over". That just means they are behaving because they are afraid of whoever is watching.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
My initial thought was to post that "even President Tom think's you've gone too far." But I'm guessing, he's in your corner :(
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Yes. That is my point.
People who tell me God (or Santa Claus) is watching me, therefore, I must be good if I want the reward of Heaven (and toys) and/or avoid the punishment of Hell (and lumps of coal) are telling me "Be Good... or Else". That is called a condition on my behaviour.
Shouldn't I be told I should be good... because it is the right thing to do? Shouldn't I do the right thing... even when no one, including God and Santa Claus, is watching? Should everyone be good because it is simply the right thing to do?
Why are we told to be fearful of God?
Hail, Hail!!!
I don't think a desire for reward or fear of punishment is what makes people good. Those things are what make them act good.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
Acting good (in order to receive a reward, i.e. God's Love) and actually being good are two different things, right? So, an Atheist who is a good person will get into Heaven, right?
Hail, Hail!!!
http://www.myspace.com/brain_of_c
Atheists believe in neither heaven nor hell. Heaven and hell are the creations of religion, so whatever criteria is required for admission into either are determined by whichever religion is being discussed for the purpose of example.
Under the christian doctrine, a person who leads a moral lifestyle yet does not acknowledge god will not get into heaven. So, if christianity is reality, then an atheist who is good will not get into heaven, assuming that it exists.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825