Burma Monks beaten, arrested, killed

gue_barium

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/27/world/asia/27myanmar.html?ref=asia

...The government began its violent crackdown Wednesday after tolerating more than a month of ever-larger protests in cities around the country, clubbing and tear gassing protesters, firing shots into the air and arresting hundreds of the monks and their supporters. The government of Myanmar began a violent crackdown on Wednesday after tolerating more than a month of ever larger protests in cities around the country. Security forces clubbed and tear-gassed protesters, fired shots into the air and arrested hundreds of the monks who are at the heart of the demonstrations.

A government announcement said security forces in Yangon, the country’s main city, fired at demonstrators who failed to disperse, killing one man. Foreign news agencies and exile groups reported death tolls ranging from two to eight people.

Despite threats and warnings by the authorities, and despite the beginnings of a violent response, tens of thousands of chanting, cheering protesters flooded the streets, witnesses reported. Monks were in the lead, like religious storm troopers, as one foreign diplomat described the scene....

Jeanie

Yes, I've been watching this gue. It's appalling.

I wish that the world would apply sanctions in order to stop this military junta and finally bring independence to Burma.

They need to release Aung San Suu Kyi and let the country finally become free!

gue_barium

Jeanie wrote:

Yes, I've been watching this gue. It's appalling.

I wish that the world would apply sanctions in order to stop this military junta and finally bring independence to Burma.

They need to release Aung San Suu Kyi and let the country finally become free!

Well, the "world" does apply sanctions. They don't work. If anything, they hurt the people they purportedly are out to help. I think the monks, or at least their thousands of followers need to start getting medieval on those junta asses.

Austicman

As usual The Australia Government has ruled out any kind of aid to Burma unless it is approved by the UN. Knowing full well that by the time they decide to do anything it will be too late for alot of people. Thats if they decide something should be done at all. Wonder where this thinking was when it came to invading Iraq.

Alexander Downer and John Howard. I don't really have the words to describe what poor excuses for human being these two are.

mammasan

Jeanie wrote:

Yes, I've been watching this gue. It's appalling.

I wish that the world would apply sanctions in order to stop this military junta and finally bring independence to Burma.

They need to release Aung San Suu Kyi and let the country finally become free!

Jeanie there have been sanctions placed on Myanmar for some time now and many countries, including the US, are proposing even stricter sanctions on the country. The problem with sanctions, or even an economic embargo, is that they do not work. The intent of the sanctions is to weaken the government, but all they really do is hurt the innocent citizens of said country.

What really needs to be done is that sanctions have to be placed on the countries that provide military aid to Myanmar. India, and I believe China, provides military aid that helps the military junta stay in power. Levy some heavy sanctions against India and you will see how quickly that aid dries up.

Jeanie

mammasan wrote:

Jeanie there have been sanctions placed on Myanmar for some time now and many countries, including the US, are proposing even stricter sanctions on the country. The problem with sanctions, or even an economic embargo, is that they do not work. The intent of the sanctions is to weaken the government, but all they really do is hurt the innocent citizens of said country.

What really needs to be done is that sanctions have to be placed on the countries that provide military aid to Myanmar. India, and I believe China, provides military aid that helps the military junta stay in power. Levy some heavy sanctions against India and you will see how quickly that aid dries up.

Yes, that sounds much more feasible. I think I was just disappointed because as Austicman mentioned above our government has pretty much passed the buck onto the UN which is really such a paper tiger, and we won't be doing anything, yet again! I can't see Australia going against China or India for that matter, given our current administration. There was a big hoo ha here when John Howard met with the Dalai Lama on his recent visit because there was concern that it would offend the Chinese president who was also visiting.

mammasan

Jeanie wrote:

Yes, that sounds much more feasible. I think I was just disappointed because as Austicman mentioned above our government has pretty much passed the buck onto the UN which is really such a paper tiger, and we won't be doing anything, yet again! I can't see Australia going against China or India for that matter, given our current administration. There was a big hoo ha here when John Howard met with the Dalai Lama on his recent visit because there was concern that it would offend the Chinese president who was also visiting.

Ok well I just read that China dumps tons of money into Myanmar in military aid so India and China are the two primary supports of the military dictatorship there. Australia is not alone in it's unwillingness to go after the two countries that keep the junta going. No country on Earth would even think of proposing sanctions on India and China because of their financial and military support of the Myanmar government. Even if some country had the balls to do this China hase veto powers in the UN Security Councel and would easily kill any such resolution.

Jeanie

mammasan wrote:

Ok well I just read that China dumps tons of money into Myanmar in military aid so India and China are the two primary supports of the military dictatorship there. Australia is not alone in it's unwillingness to go after the two countries that keep the junta going. No country on Earth would even think of proposing sanctions on India and China because of their financial and military support of the Myanmar government. Even if some country had the balls to do this China hase veto powers in the UN Security Councel and would easily kill any such resolution.

You're right I expect. But Australia has eventually gone up against places like Indonesia in relation to East Timor when it wasn't really considered the thing to do. At the time we (the people) were pretty excited because it seemed to be because of public opinion, but turns out that it had more to do with oil and gas in the Timor Sea. If only there was something of value to the powers that be in Burma.

know1

I'm surprised at this much support for a religious protest. If Christians were marching on Washington here, I bet this board would be singing a different tune.

mammasan

know1 wrote:

I'm surprised at this much support for a religious protest. If Christians were marching on Washington here, I bet this board would be singing a different tune.

It is not a religious protest. It a protest for democracy. Buddhist monks are held in high regards in Myanmar so they have spear-headed these protests against the military dictatorship. They are not fighting for their religion but for the freedom of all Burmese citizens.

gue_barium

http://www.guardian.co.uk/burma/story/0,,2178428,00.html

Some Burmese troops have declared their support for the Buddhist monks who have led mass protests in the first apparent sign of disaffection in the army, exiled Burmese sources said today.
Disgruntled officers have formed a group called the Public Patriot Army Association and expressed their backing for demonstrators in a letter drafted on Tuesday.

The document - the veracity of which cannot be independently verified - was obtained by Burmese exiles in Thailand and passed to Guardian Unlimited.

"On behalf of the armed forces, we declare our support for the non-violent action of the Buddhist monks and members of the public and their peaceful expression," it said.
"We are all encountering crisis in the economy and in society, political difficulties of various kinds of oppression. Those realities not only affect the public and Buddhist monks. We in the military are also affected."

Burmese exiles in Thailand, who translated the letter, said it was a source of encouragement to the anti-government movement.

They claimed Burma's military rulers were so concerned by mutiny in the army that they had ordered the arrest of the colonel in charge of governing Rangoon.

Any sign of dissent within the ranks would be a cause for alarm for the three-man military junta. The junta is led by 74-year-old General Than Shwe, who has been acting as the head of state since 1992, and the military has ruled Burma since 1962.

When he became head of state, Gen Than Shwe appeared to be more liberal than his predecessor, General Saw Maung.

He freed some political prisoners and allowed human rights groups to visit Burma. However, he remains resolutely opposed to any role for Aung San Suu Kyi, the opposition leader who has been under arrest for more than a decade.

Gen Than Shwe's career included a stint in the department of psychological warfare. Said to be superstitious, he reportedly consults astrologers. Generals Maung Aye and Soe Win, both hardliners, complete the triumvirate.

The junta reinforced its reputation for paranoia by moving the capital deep into the mountainous jungle at Naypyidaw, outside the town of Pyinmana and 230 miles north of Rangoon.

Activists said the move was designed to insulate the generals from decades of misrule.

my2hands

know1 wrote:

I'm surprised at this much support for a religious protest. If Christians were marching on Washington here, I bet this board would be singing a different tune.

:rolleyes:

why do christians always feel like they are under attack?

my2hands

some amazing hero's

perhaps the american public should pay attention to stop our psychotic government... me included

sweetpotato

mammasan wrote:

It is not a religious protest. It a protest for democracy. Buddhist monks are held in high regards in Myanmar so they have spear-headed these protests against the military dictatorship. They are not fighting for their religion but for the freedom of all Burmese citizens.

thanks for educating mr. know-it-all-yet-apparently-not-much-1.

anyone following the story even casually would know that this isn't a religious protest. :rolleyes:

sweetpotato

my2hands wrote:

:rolleyes:

why do christians always feel like they are under attack?

it fills pews.

angelica

my2hands wrote:

:rolleyes:

why do christians always feel like they are under attack?

They feel that way on this board because they are under attack.

prism

angelica wrote:

They feel that way on this board because they are under attack.

I've never seen anyone attacked for being Christian on this board. however, the overwhelming hypocrisy that many times is often apparent with Christianity does get attacked...as well it should

my2hands

angelica wrote:

They feel that way on this board because they are under attack.

um, i disagree

not having the same faith and beliefs does not constitute being under attack

when christinas allow their religion to be hijacked by racist, homophobe, war mongers doesnt help their cause either. christians always seem to be the first to pass judgement on other people, so they are bringing it onto themselves IMO.


and seriously, the whole "christianity is under attack" is flat out ridiculous. our government is currently stacked with christians from christian educational backgrounds and many govt policies are blatantly supportive of christianity. i have yet to see an interview from the president where he doesnt end it with "god bless america"... not to mention every $ bill printed in this country has "in god we trust" and last i saw 75% of amaericans identify themselves as some form of christian.

reminds me of the bogus "war on xmas" i was hearing about, what a joke.

my2hands

prism wrote:

I've never seen anyone attacked for being Christian on this board. however, the overwhelming hypocrisy that many times is often apparent with Christianity does get attacked...as well it should

there, they said what i wanted to, just in a much more clear and direct way

prism

gue_barium wrote:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/burma/story/0,,2178428,00.html

Some Burmese troops have declared their support for the Buddhist monks who have led mass protests in the first apparent sign of disaffection in the army, exiled Burmese sources said today.
Disgruntled officers have formed a group called the Public Patriot Army Association and expressed their backing for demonstrators in a letter drafted on Tuesday.

The document - the veracity of which cannot be independently verified - was obtained by Burmese exiles in Thailand and passed to Guardian Unlimited.

"On behalf of the armed forces, we declare our support for the non-violent action of the Buddhist monks and members of the public and their peaceful expression," it said.
"We are all encountering crisis in the economy and in society, political difficulties of various kinds of oppression. Those realities not only affect the public and Buddhist monks. We in the military are also affected."

Burmese exiles in Thailand, who translated the letter, said it was a source of encouragement to the anti-government movement.

They claimed Burma's military rulers were so concerned by mutiny in the army that they had ordered the arrest of the colonel in charge of governing Rangoon.

Any sign of dissent within the ranks would be a cause for alarm for the three-man military junta. The junta is led by 74-year-old General Than Shwe, who has been acting as the head of state since 1992, and the military has ruled Burma since 1962.

When he became head of state, Gen Than Shwe appeared to be more liberal than his predecessor, General Saw Maung.

He freed some political prisoners and allowed human rights groups to visit Burma. However, he remains resolutely opposed to any role for Aung San Suu Kyi, the opposition leader who has been under arrest for more than a decade.

Gen Than Shwe's career included a stint in the department of psychological warfare. Said to be superstitious, he reportedly consults astrologers. Generals Maung Aye and Soe Win, both hardliners, complete the triumvirate.

The junta reinforced its reputation for paranoia by moving the capital deep into the mountainous jungle at Naypyidaw, outside the town of Pyinmana and 230 miles north of Rangoon.

Activists said the move was designed to insulate the generals from decades of misrule.

I really hope that this is true and that many more in the army join in backing the protestors

prism

my2hands wrote:

there, they said what i wanted to, just in a much more clear and direct way

thanks. hey, there's nothin wrong with you covering the details