If there were no humans, would there be a God?

pirlo21

I'm stealing this from another forum, on another website...sorry!

If all humans were wiped from the face of the earth, for whatever reason, would there still be a God?!

Kann

Sorry for being a smartass but the question is actually :
"if there were no humans would there still be a universe" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropic_principle). It's basically the same if you consider that God is nature.
edit : I think... who cares?

LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun

yes i'll still be here. next question please.

pirlo21

MrSmith wrote:

yes i'll still be here. next question please.

Ha ha! I like that one! I'm a convert to the religion of the almighty Mr Smith!
Praise the Lord!

Fighting Hellfish

Isn't that pretty much what the song Cropduster is about?

I was the fool because I thought....I thought the world
Turns out the world thought me


That's "God" thinking that he "thought the world" or created it
Turns out, the world "thought him...God" or created God

DriftingByTheStorm

"if there were no angles would there be no sin?"

Gmoney

Fighting Hellfish wrote:

Isn't that pretty much what the song Cropduster is about?

I was the fool because I thought....I thought the world
Turns out the world thought me


That's "God" thinking that he "thought the world" or created it
Turns out, the world "thought him...God" or created God

very interesting... never thought about it like that. I always took it as ed saying he thought he knew it all, but it turns out he didn't really know anything, or something along those lines.

bootlegger10

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

"if there were no angles would there be no sin?"

like a right angle? j/k

bootlegger10

pirlo21 wrote:

I'm stealing this from another forum, on another website...sorry!

If all humans were wiped from the face of the earth, for whatever reason, would there still be a God?!

The God of the Bible would still exist. There'd still be a Heaven and angels and demons.

DriftingByTheStorm

bootlegger10 wrote:

like a right angle? j/k

lol.
i love typos.

ANYHOW
You know the current interpretation of "god" seems to stem from a rational misinterpretation of a phenomenological event that was of "divine" inspiration to primitive beings.

Paleontology now shows us that ancient "cultures" dating back to Sumeria and every where in between have their "religious" roots mired in heavy psychedelic revelry. John Allegro would make a solid starting point for this interpretation of history.

Anyhow,
it seems pretty clear the deeper you dig that "original religion" was little more than an offshoot of the human mind's own capability for wondrous admiration of the universe and life. It was simply a psychedelic celebration of the supreme nature of existence, sex, and the human experience.

It is only after this original expression of "religion" that the "Religious" "Leaders" co-opted the experience, and the metaphors for this experience, and the false interpretations were then transcribed to became dogma. As common throughout history, the experiences of the many were perverted and preyed upon, manipulated by and for the benefit of the elite few.

Religion was thus perverted from an orgiastic expression of the great cosmic dance of the universe in to a contrived and irrelevant method of instilling control and order.

I guess in that sense, the answer to the OPs question is "No", without man, god would not exist, given that the original concept of "god" was nothing more than a transcendent phenomenological experience peculiar to humans themselves.

???

chopitdown

pirlo21 wrote:

I'm stealing this from another forum, on another website...sorry!

If all humans were wiped from the face of the earth, for whatever reason, would there still be a God?!

Gods presence isn't contingent upon humans being around. The presumption is that God is eternal.

Fighting Hellfish

Gmoney wrote:

very interesting... never thought about it like that. I always took it as ed saying he thought he knew it all, but it turns out he didn't really know anything, or something along those lines.

that's how I always interpreted it. Give it a listen again, let me know if you think I'm onto something, or crazy.

Lizard

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

"if there were no angles would there be no sin?"

My exact first thought...................

You better stop me before I begin
But let me say...if I behave...can you arrange a spacious hole in the ground

beachdweller

Nothing comes from nothing, at some time, in some space was the first something, and that was created by God, everything else is bullshit...IMO

catefrances

pirlo21 wrote:

I'm stealing this from another forum, on another website...sorry!

If all humans were wiped from the face of the earth, for whatever reason, would there still be a God?!

how could there be, when it was humans who invented God?

no humans=no God

Cosmo

God would still exist... He just wouldn't have the highest evolved ape claiming Him in their name.

chopitdown

catefrances wrote:

how could there be, when it was humans who invented God?

no humans=no God

God created humans...now the great part is neither of us can prove our point.

beachdweller

shouldn't our discussion start with defining "GOD"? I mean, there has been thousands of "Gods" during the life and evolution of our species Homo sapien

CorporateWhore

If a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound?

beachdweller

CorporateWhore wrote:

If a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound?

So the real question is, will we every have an answer to these questions?

CorporateWhore

CorporateWhore wrote:

If a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound?

Why, of course it does! A tree falling creates sound waves irrespective of whether there is someone to receive the sound waves.

God exists whether or not we believe in him and whether or not we exist. God created mankind, and so he existed before mankind.

unsung

Is there a God?

I don't think anyone knows for sure. We chalk up past civilization's worship as mythology. Who is to say that 1000 years from now there is Christian mythology?

Gmoney

Fighting Hellfish wrote:

that's how I always interpreted it. Give it a listen again, let me know if you think I'm onto something, or crazy.

wow, you really have me thinking here... This was always one of my favorite songs. It always felt epic to me, even if it were written from ed's perspective. But I totally see your point. It really could be written from the perspective of god, at least some of it. Wow, i have to keep listening and analyzing...

mattcozea

God either exists or doesn't exist, the existence of man has no bearing on this.

LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun

if you were a hotdog, would you eat yourself?

Rats of Multa

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

lol.
i love typos.

ANYHOW
You know the current interpretation of "god" seems to stem from a rational misinterpretation of a phenomenological event that was of "divine" inspiration to primitive beings.

Paleontology now shows us that ancient "cultures" dating back to Sumeria and every where in between have their "religious" roots mired in heavy psychedelic revelry. John Allegro would make a solid starting point for this interpretation of history.

Anyhow,
it seems pretty clear the deeper you dig that "original religion" was little more than an offshoot of the human mind's own capability for wondrous admiration of the universe and life. It was simply a psychedelic celebration of the supreme nature of existence, sex, and the human experience.

It is only after this original expression of "religion" that the "Religious" "Leaders" co-opted the experience, and the metaphors for this experience, and the false interpretations were then transcribed to became dogma. As common throughout history, the experiences of the many were perverted and preyed upon, manipulated by and for the benefit of the elite few.

Religion was thus perverted from an orgiastic expression of the great cosmic dance of the universe in to a contrived and irrelevant method of instilling control and order.

I guess in that sense, the answer to the OPs question is "No", without man, god would not exist, given that the original concept of "god" was nothing more than a transcendent phenomenological experience peculiar to humans themselves.

???

not only brilliant but poetic.

has Drifting become so synonymous with unbridled-genius that there everyone is too afraid to comment/reply,..??


this is my favorite part:
"original religion" was little more than an offshoot of the human mind's own capability for wondrous admiration of the universe and life.
i know ive ranted and raved about the Lascaux markings around here too much, but realistically [historically] it does seem clear that 'religiousness' (in the active sense, as opposed to what theoretical-dribblings have since dominated human-culture/civilization) stems from indefinite psychological sources such as emotion and imagination. reminds me of this book i encountered in college by Simon Schama ~ Schama's "Landscape and Memory" (1995) focussed on the relationship between physical environment and folk memory, separating the components of landscape as wood, water and rock, enmeshed in the cultural consciousness of collective "memory" that are embodied in myths, which Schama finds to be expressed outwardly in ceremony and text. --http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_Schama

...and thus it is perhaps even more interesting to ponder what connexions may exist, whether direct-inspirations or distant-influences, within the art of Pearl Jam. [has anyone else been logging more time on the Cornice dvd than sleeping..??]

CorporateWhore

chiefojibwa wrote:

awesome!! i'm soooo glad someone finally figured it out, without a doubt, after all these years. you should go now, for the good of humanity, and shout it from the mountaintops.

godspeed!!!

Any philosopher worth his salt knows this. Unless they're a philosophical skeptic - which no one is anymore.

Do you read Descartes or Hume? Unless you believe what they say, I don't know how you could be a skeptic.

If you're not a skeptic, then the tree makes a sound. That's all there is to it.

bootlegger10

Lizard wrote:

My exact first thought...................

You better stop me before I begin
But let me say...if I behave...can you arrange a spacious hole in the ground

For a well overlooked song, that song has a TON of great lyrics. The song flows so well.

bootlegger10

MrSmith wrote:

if you were a hotdog, would you eat yourself?

lol...well done.

catefrances

chopitdown wrote:

God created humans...now the great part is neither of us can prove our point.

i dont have a point to prove. i have my opinion which no one has never been able to disprove to me. and cause yours relies solely on faith which requires no proof at all you simply cant.

mookie blaylock 10

if god did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him.