and ENOUGH with oil! can't we LEARN from all this? we need to END our dependence on oil. period. we need alternate fuel sources. period. it's been said enough but man, the resources poured into this horrific war, imagine poured instead into research and development of a new, renewable resource?! :eek: boggles my mind....
If I'm wrong, tell me where my answers are insufficient.
How about making it simple, Since everything to you is and should be simple.
The Oil industry has a finite supply, can set its own prices withrelative ease, can manipulate world economies and has a checkered past. One refinery can explode and impact the prices world wide. Instead of using the billions of profit for solutions they line their pockets first. They control nations, elections and buy energy solving patents and shelve them. Oil companies are hugely irresposible and history has repeatedly shown them to be corrupt.
The Oil industry has a finite supply, can set its own prices withrelative ease, can manipulate world economies and has a checkered past. One refinery can explode and impact the prices world wide.
LOL...if by the "oil industry" you mean American oil companies, you're crazy. The Exxons, Shells, and ConocosPhillips cannot set prices "with relative ease", nor do they manipulate world economies to the extent you are implying. American oil companies, despite their massive profits and undue influence, are not the major players in terms of the world's oil supply.
If what you're saying is true, how come these omnipotent entities allowed the price of oil to dip to nearly $10 / barrel only 15 years ago??? And how could they not even stop the mountains of regulation, litigation, and restrictions against them?
Instead of using the billions of profit for solutions they line their pockets first.
Actually, they pay billions in taxes first. Then they "line their pockets".
They control nations, elections and buy energy solving patents and shelve them. Oil companies are hugely irresposible and history has repeatedly shown them to be corrupt.
Why should I believe the fears they sell?
I'll certainly agree with you that oil companies have been hugely irresponsible and corrupt in all sorts of ways! That's absolutely true and demonstrable from simple history lessons. You shouldn't believe the "fears they sell".
...
I vote for building a refinery in your backyard.
make mine a refinerary...
it's more refiner I hear..
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
i bet you're paying 10x's what people in maine are for lobster
but i am not defending the oil companies... just showing that using saudi arabia as your example may not be the best choice
yeah, I understand the economics of the situation. I have also read that gas is .17cents in Venezuela. Another OPEC nation. I just have trouble sinking my teeth entirely into the supply and demand argument vs. such disparities in price.
I have issues with the delivery side also. Like the postal service, you couldn't deliver a letter across the country for the price of what you pay for a stamp. However you could deliver a million letters across the country and make quite a profit. The same goes for lobster. If there was a tremendous demand for Lobster in the midwest ( like gasoline) you wouldn't have to pay 10X (in the midwest) what they give for a lobster in Maine... I would seriously doubt you would give 3X the price of Maine Lobster if the demand was that of gasoline.
Well there are a few factors you are not taking into consideration.
1. Transportation costs. Saudi Arabia does not have to incur the transportation costs we do in order to get their oil.
2. Supply and Demand. Saudi Arabia does not consume even remotely near the amount of oil we do per capita. So their supply far out weighs their demand.
TAX! Usually most things that cost a lot is because they're taxed heavily.
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
"Environazis" have nothing to do with not allowing refineries to be built. It hasn't gotten that far because nobody wants another refinery built in their back yard. Also, most "Environazis" would probably argue that we shouldn't still be relying on oil to power our cars in the first place. Or at the very least we should have done more to reduce our need for oil by insisting on more fuel efficient vehicles.
Besides, you're forgetting the main point... since when has ANY government listened to ANYTHING an 'environazi' has to say? :cool:
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
My question is who owns the oil and it's rights in Iraq?
Taxpayers are shelling out billions per week to guard whose oil?
Economically and fiscally speaking, I understand the points being made here.
What I'm not sure I understand is the disparity in oil prices globally.
If it cost X number of $ to drill, remove and refine the oil ...then oil rich
nations certainly pay more than X for their gasoline. So in Saudi Arabia what is the actual cost of crude? Who is drilling it? Its not the Chinese or the Indians right? So how is it by my calculations 20X by the time it gets here?
Also... people have to make profit... not only do the transportation companies have to make profit but so do the gas stations... not to mention everyone in between. You really can't expect something in the US to cost the same as it would in its country of origin?
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Goddammit it's like being in bible school and asking about the dinosaurs or how the fuck did Noah build an ark so big? It's always the same rhetoric.
If US based petroleum companies are drilling, transporting and refining Mid-East oil the Saudis can afford to sell it at .45 cents per gallon. IF the demand coming from China and India exceeds the supply and those countries are forcing our own US companies to raise gas prices internationally doesn't that hurt our dollar even more?
Essentially, we can only point the finger at ourselves.
Oh absolutely! You don't think the people BEHIND all the drilling will have to worry about rising oil costs any day now?
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
and ENOUGH with oil! can't we LEARN from all this? we need to END our dependence on oil. period. we need alternate fuel sources. period. it's been said enough but man, the resources poured into this horrific war, imagine poured instead into research and development of a new, renewable resource?! :eek: boggles my mind....
to the 'little guy' of COURSE that makes perfect sense... but to the bigger guy this is all part of the bigger picture to make the rich even richer and the rest of us... well... NOT! See they'll keep telling us about how oil's running out, thus shooting oil prices right up... until they actually 'DO' run out in the middle east... and then suddenly they'll start drilling in Alaska so the 'only oil in the world' will be American and guess how much they'll charge for THAT. It's not really in their own best interests to encourage alternative fuels... cos this one's working out pretty easy for them as it is :(
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
to the 'little guy' of COURSE that makes perfect sense... but to the bigger guy this is all part of the bigger picture to make the rich even richer and the rest of us... well... NOT!
Why does it have to be "little guy" vs. "big guy"? It is not like the only people who are allowed to invest in oil companies are multi-millionaires. Anyone with a bit of money to invest can take advantage of all the money oil companies are making and get some of it for themselves.
Why does it have to be "little guy" vs. "big guy"? It is not like the only people who are allowed to invest in oil companies are multi-millionaires. Anyone with a bit of money to invest can take advantage of all the money oil companies are making and get some of it for themselves.
Oh absolutely... and it doesn't HAVE to be that way... but it is. The rich will keep getting richer, often at the expense of the not so rich. Why can't we just be? Without the superclass determining how poor we're gonna be this year!
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Oh absolutely... and it doesn't HAVE to be that way... but it is. The rich will keep getting richer, often at the expense of the not so rich. Why can't we just be? Without the superclass determining how poor we're gonna be this year!
But it isn't only the super rich making money. Anyone with a bit of money to invest can walk into a bank or find a discount online broker and invest in oil companies and use their profits to make money. Right now as I look over my small retirement fund, the only thing keeping it from going into the negative is the fact that the oil companies in the various funds are turning big profits. So the oil companies are making me money, and I am by no means rich.
But it isn't only the super rich making money. Anyone with a bit of money to invest can walk into a bank or find a discount online broker and invest in oil companies and use their profits to make money. Right now as I look over my small retirement fund, the only thing keeping it from going into the negative is the fact that the oil companies in the various funds are turning big profits. So the oil companies are making me money, and I am by no means rich.
but it's only the rich who will become super rich from it. I don't get what point you're trying to make...so anyone can invest in oil... yeh, we can give ourselves a reasonable retirement. But can we invest enough to become rich? Besides some of us have morals... it was recently discovered that Ireland, a neutral country, invest our pension funds in every country in the worlds top ten arms manufacturers... and 43 of the top 100 :eek: . We're currently in the process of removing our investment from those companies. The little guys CAN have stake in the oil companies... but it's still gonna be the big guys who control them and who control what direction the oil situation is gonna take,
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
but it's only the rich who will become super rich from it. I don't get what point you're trying to make...so anyone can invest in oil... yeh, we can give ourselves a reasonable retirement.
And those already "super rich" will become "uber rich"!!! My my, what's a plebian to do!?!?!
I've said this before..I know. Even if we drill in Alaska and it costs less to refine, the oil companies are still going to pocket that money. They won't pass the savings along to us. We are bitching, but we're still buying. Unless we stop buying at the price it is at, they won't lower the prices. Why should they?
I also don't know how much of a supply we have here. Once it's out- then we're screwed.
I will hold the candle until it burns up my arm. I'll keep taking punches until their will grows tired. I will stare the sun down until my eyes go blind. I won't change direction and I won't change my mind.
I've said this before..I know. Even if we drill in Alaska and it costs less to refine, the oil companies are still going to pocket that money. They won't pass the savings along to us.
LOL...then why hasn't gas cost $4 / gallon for 30 years?
I don't think that they would have been able to 30 years ago. What was the minimum wage- something like $2.50. I don't think that the average household made that much and most households were only a 1 income household.
$4-5 for a gallon of gas will put a strain on the economy now- it would have devastated us back then. No way that they would be able to sell it. They would have had to lower the price.
But $2-3.00 may fly now.
If we drill here and it only costs .75 to refine and distribute, do you really think that they are going to lower the prices back down to $1.00/gal? No, they'll lower it a little bit and bank the rest.
I will hold the candle until it burns up my arm. I'll keep taking punches until their will grows tired. I will stare the sun down until my eyes go blind. I won't change direction and I won't change my mind.
I don't think that they would have been able to 30 years ago. What was the minimum wage- something like $2.50. I don't think that the average household made that much and most households were only a 1 income household.
$4-5 for a gallon of gas will put a strain on the economy now- it would have devastated us back then. No way that they would be able to sell it. They would have had to lower the price.
But $2-3.00 may fly now.
If we drill here and it only costs .75 to refine and distribute, do you really think that they are going to lower the prices back down to $1.00/gal? No, they'll lower it a little bit and bank the rest.
"They" are still a collection of competing companies. The price of gas could certainly return to $1.00 / gallon. In fact, the price of gas could probably return to $0.50 / gallon if conditions allowed for it.
In 1981, gas peaked at nearly $2.90 / gallon (inflation adjusted). Seven years later, it was half that. Now, it's 3 times the 1988 level. In other words, gas prices fluctuate and they don't fluctuate because oil companies are greedy or altruistic. They fluctuate in response to economic and politcal motivators such as supply, demand, competition, monopolization, regulation and regional conditions.
If you drilled in Alaska and introduced significant new oil supply into a competitive oil market and a competitive refining market with excess capacity, the price of a gallon of gas would certainly come down. How much it would come down is certainly open for debate. But to suggest that introducing new supply that outpaces demand into a competitive market without bottlenecks would have no affect on prices is no different than suggesting that a lead weight dropped off of the Empire State building would float magically beneath your hand.
All we need to do is Kiss Saudi ass, and we get the same deal...
Oh wait...
nevermind
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Comments
If I'm wrong, tell me where my answers are insufficient.
agreed!
and ENOUGH with oil! can't we LEARN from all this? we need to END our dependence on oil. period. we need alternate fuel sources. period. it's been said enough but man, the resources poured into this horrific war, imagine poured instead into research and development of a new, renewable resource?! :eek: boggles my mind....
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
How about making it simple, Since everything to you is and should be simple.
The Oil industry has a finite supply, can set its own prices withrelative ease, can manipulate world economies and has a checkered past. One refinery can explode and impact the prices world wide. Instead of using the billions of profit for solutions they line their pockets first. They control nations, elections and buy energy solving patents and shelve them. Oil companies are hugely irresposible and history has repeatedly shown them to be corrupt.
Why should I believe the fears they sell?
LOL...if by the "oil industry" you mean American oil companies, you're crazy. The Exxons, Shells, and ConocosPhillips cannot set prices "with relative ease", nor do they manipulate world economies to the extent you are implying. American oil companies, despite their massive profits and undue influence, are not the major players in terms of the world's oil supply.
If what you're saying is true, how come these omnipotent entities allowed the price of oil to dip to nearly $10 / barrel only 15 years ago??? And how could they not even stop the mountains of regulation, litigation, and restrictions against them?
Actually, they pay billions in taxes first. Then they "line their pockets".
I'll certainly agree with you that oil companies have been hugely irresponsible and corrupt in all sorts of ways! That's absolutely true and demonstrable from simple history lessons. You shouldn't believe the "fears they sell".
make mine a refinerary...
it's more refiner I hear..
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
and seafood is cheaper closer to the ocean
whats your point?
With that logic, I'd be giving $400 for a lobster where I live.
Check out this latest thread... makes much more sense than the supply and demand argument we're being force fed by the Oil companies
The demand hasn't doubled in the last year, why has the cost?
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=286486
i bet you're paying 10x's what people in maine are for lobster
but i am not defending the oil companies... just showing that using saudi arabia as your example may not be the best choice
yeah, I understand the economics of the situation. I have also read that gas is .17cents in Venezuela. Another OPEC nation. I just have trouble sinking my teeth entirely into the supply and demand argument vs. such disparities in price.
I have issues with the delivery side also. Like the postal service, you couldn't deliver a letter across the country for the price of what you pay for a stamp. However you could deliver a million letters across the country and make quite a profit. The same goes for lobster. If there was a tremendous demand for Lobster in the midwest ( like gasoline) you wouldn't have to pay 10X (in the midwest) what they give for a lobster in Maine... I would seriously doubt you would give 3X the price of Maine Lobster if the demand was that of gasoline.
...just sayin
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Venezuela is a major oil producing-exporting nation.
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
It is their oil.
Why does it have to be "little guy" vs. "big guy"? It is not like the only people who are allowed to invest in oil companies are multi-millionaires. Anyone with a bit of money to invest can take advantage of all the money oil companies are making and get some of it for themselves.
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
But it isn't only the super rich making money. Anyone with a bit of money to invest can walk into a bank or find a discount online broker and invest in oil companies and use their profits to make money. Right now as I look over my small retirement fund, the only thing keeping it from going into the negative is the fact that the oil companies in the various funds are turning big profits. So the oil companies are making me money, and I am by no means rich.
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
And those already "super rich" will become "uber rich"!!! My my, what's a plebian to do!?!?!
I also don't know how much of a supply we have here. Once it's out- then we're screwed.
LOL...then why hasn't gas cost $4 / gallon for 30 years?
Can't wait for this answer.....
Admin
Social awareness does not equal political activism!
5/23/2011- An utter embarrassment... ticketing failures too many to list.
$4-5 for a gallon of gas will put a strain on the economy now- it would have devastated us back then. No way that they would be able to sell it. They would have had to lower the price.
But $2-3.00 may fly now.
If we drill here and it only costs .75 to refine and distribute, do you really think that they are going to lower the prices back down to $1.00/gal? No, they'll lower it a little bit and bank the rest.
"They" are still a collection of competing companies. The price of gas could certainly return to $1.00 / gallon. In fact, the price of gas could probably return to $0.50 / gallon if conditions allowed for it.
In 1981, gas peaked at nearly $2.90 / gallon (inflation adjusted). Seven years later, it was half that. Now, it's 3 times the 1988 level. In other words, gas prices fluctuate and they don't fluctuate because oil companies are greedy or altruistic. They fluctuate in response to economic and politcal motivators such as supply, demand, competition, monopolization, regulation and regional conditions.
If you drilled in Alaska and introduced significant new oil supply into a competitive oil market and a competitive refining market with excess capacity, the price of a gallon of gas would certainly come down. How much it would come down is certainly open for debate. But to suggest that introducing new supply that outpaces demand into a competitive market without bottlenecks would have no affect on prices is no different than suggesting that a lead weight dropped off of the Empire State building would float magically beneath your hand.
LOL...http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24780787/
Oh wait...
nevermind
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")