What I don't get is Conservatives are against Welfare, SCHIP, and Abortion etc. But people having kids before they are ready or have money to care for the kid causes a lot of new Welfare cases.
I would like to hear a Conservative tell me how they would solve the problem of poor people getting knocked up and not being able to afford the kid but are forced to have it because abortion is banned. This is the scenerio that leads to babies being left in a dumpster. How do they propose these kids to get the care they need?
Sometimes, emphasis on sometimes, its takes more compassion and humanity get an abortion then to bring another lost soul in this world.
But the fact that I have great family support and a stable job means I would never consider abortion an option if my girl got knocked up, but I am pro choice.
Good argument. It's counter would be vasectomy, or tubes tied. Not sure what those operations cost.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Good argument. It's counter would be vasectomy, or tubes tied. Not sure what those operations cost.
If they are poor enough to be on welfare then I don't think they could afford these operations. Maybe make these operations free to those on welfare. But that might be to close to Universal Healthcare which Conservatives are also against.
I guess I'm reaching the point where I believe Conservatives don't care about poor people. Unless they aren't born yet.
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I would like to hear a Conservative tell me how they would solve the problem of poor people getting knocked up and not being able to afford the kid but are forced to have it because abortion is banned.
I agree with the idea behind your post, but I have to call you out on the line above... no one is forcing anyone to have a kid... unless in cases like abuse or rape or whatever, people get pregnant while willingly having sex.
My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
If they are poor enough to be on welfare then I don't think they could afford these operations. Maybe make these operations free to those on welfare. But that might be to close to Universal Healthcare which Conservatives are also against.
I guess I'm reaching the point where I believe Conservatives don't care about poor people. Unless they aren't born yet.
It kinda goes to show you how far out past the "abortion is wrong, so don't do it" argument they actually sit down and conceptualize.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
I agree with the idea behind your post, but I have to call you out on the line above... no one is forcing anyone to have a kid... unless in cases like abuse or rape or whatever, people get pregnant while willingly having sex.
Mistakes are made. No one is perfect. The majority of adults have had unprotected sex at least once because they had to much to drink, got caught up in the moment etc. but weren't ready, didn't want a kid. Thank god I never slipped one past the goalie!
Now if I made a mistake I could afford to live with it, and more importantly my kid would have the care and food that is needed.
Others aren't as fortunate as me.
10/31/2000 (****)
6/7/2003 (***1/2)
7/9/2006 (****1/2)
7/13/2006 (**** )
4/10/2008 EV Solo (****1/2)
6/25/2008 MSG II (*****)
10/1/2009 LA II (****)
10/6/2009 LA III (***** Cornell!!!)
I agree with the idea behind your post, but I have to call you out on the line above... no one is forcing anyone to have a kid... unless in cases like abuse or rape or whatever, people get pregnant while willingly having sex.
Agreed. Many women/couples aren't having just one abortion, they are having multiple. That is using it as a form of birth control and that is where the problem really lies.
Agreed. Many women/couples aren't having just one abortion, they are having multiple. That is using it as a form of birth control and that is where the problem really lies.
Oh without a doubt I support universal birth control. It should be easily and cheapily made available to all who inquire. I'm not saying to hand it out at high schools, I don't want any Bill O'reilly types jumping on my case for that. But planned parenthood is a great tool for anyone who is sexually active.
However what group of people are against Planned Parenthood and teaching birth control?
You got it Conservatives!
10/31/2000 (****)
6/7/2003 (***1/2)
7/9/2006 (****1/2)
7/13/2006 (**** )
4/10/2008 EV Solo (****1/2)
6/25/2008 MSG II (*****)
10/1/2009 LA II (****)
10/6/2009 LA III (***** Cornell!!!)
Mistakes are made. No one is perfect. The majority of adults have had unprotected sex at least once because they had to much to drink, got caught up in the moment etc. but weren't ready, didn't want a kid. Thank god I never slipped one past the goalie!
Now if I made a mistake I could afford to live with it, and more importantly my kid would have the care and food that is needed.
Others aren't as fortunate as me.
I definitely understand and agree with you, but just your choice of the word "force" kinda bothered me. I wasn't disagreeing, I guess I just got hung up on semantics.
Agreed. Many women/couples aren't having just one abortion, they are having multiple. That is using it as a form of birth control and that is where the problem really lies.
That's a myth that is thrown around by pro-lifers too... Yes, there are some sick people who get multiple abortions, but the vast majority don't do it repeatedly or "use it as a form of birth control".
My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
I definitely understand and agree with you, but just your choice of the word "force" kinda bothered me. I wasn't disagreeing, I guess I just got hung up on semantics. ".
Good everyone better agree! j/k
Just to clarify by forced I meant once already pregnant. No one is forced to get pregnant. That is why birth control is the best method to end abortion.
Of course that would make Ann Coulter's head spin!
10/31/2000 (****)
6/7/2003 (***1/2)
7/9/2006 (****1/2)
7/13/2006 (**** )
4/10/2008 EV Solo (****1/2)
6/25/2008 MSG II (*****)
10/1/2009 LA II (****)
10/6/2009 LA III (***** Cornell!!!)
I hope you never own or operate a sandwich shop...
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Wow it still doesn't get past the first page before Bush/Iraq is brought up in an unrelated topic!
The Conservatives are against welfare, etc line is a bit ridiculous too. "Conservatives" are against the abuse of the programs. Nobody is against helping people that truly need it. I also think the problem with some social programs is its just a handout. I'd happily support a program where you get finanicial assistance for school, daycare and living expenses while you are getting an education or training but I'm not willing to support a program where you get to sit home and collect a check indefinitely with no regards to the future.
As for the abortion issue, people are never going to agree on anything about it.. the terms used for it, the reasoning behind it, the legislation..nothing.
Wow it still doesn't get past the first page before Bush/Iraq is brought up in an unrelated topic!
The Conservatives are against welfare, etc line is a bit ridiculous too. "Conservatives" are against the abuse of the programs. Nobody is against helping people that truly need it. I also think the problem with some social programs is its just a handout. I'd happily support a program where you get financial assistance for school, daycare and living expenses while you are getting an education or training but I'm not willing to support a program where you get to sit home and collect a check indefinitely with no regards to the future.
As for the abortion issue, people are never going to agree on anything about it.. the terms used for it, the reasoning behind it, the legislation..nothing.
Thats fine and all. Really good points. But the problem is I never hear solutions to welfare reform. It is also noted that the current administration supports abstinence only sex education teachings which has one fatal flaw: basic human desires.
I just want to hear alternative solutions from Conservatives. I honestly only hear that they are against pro life, sex ed, welfare in its current sate, etc but I never hear the solutions. That is what I want addressed by Conservatives running for office.
As an independent my vote is up for grabs but keeps going to the democrats because the majority of the Republican party has lost touch with the middle class, the poor, and reality.
10/31/2000 (****)
6/7/2003 (***1/2)
7/9/2006 (****1/2)
7/13/2006 (**** )
4/10/2008 EV Solo (****1/2)
6/25/2008 MSG II (*****)
10/1/2009 LA II (****)
10/6/2009 LA III (***** Cornell!!!)
yeah, i agree. what kills me is our "pro life" president who sends kids to get killed for oil everyday
Bingo.
Bush claims to be "pro-life", yet he seems to have no qualms about sending thousands of soldiers off to die and vetoes health care for kids. Guess he only cares about them before they're born...
Chicago 2000 : Chicago 2003 : Chicago 2006 : Summerfest 2006 : Lollapalooza 2007 : Chicago 2009 : Noblesville (Indy) 2010 : PJ20 (East Troy) 2011 : Wrigley Field 2013 : Milwaukee (Yield) 2014 : Wrigley Field 2016
I always thought the Pro-Choice position was that the morality of abortion is subjective and therefor a matter of personal opinion and choice.
But as with anything in society, the terms are badly selected and poorly defined.
Pro-Life, implicitly suggests that anything else is Pro-Death
Likewise, the alternative to Pro-Choice is Pro-Mandate
Actually, the latter seems more well defined.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I like people. I feel an obligation to care about and protect everyone. I believe the child/fetus/whateveryouwanttocallit should be cared for and protected just like everyone and everything else. It is a sad day when life is lost.
so with that presupposition why would you be pro-choice? You just classified the the fetus as life. So you agree that life should be terminated as long as one of the 2 people responsible for helping create it feels it should be killed? The thing that I find esp weird with this whole debate is that if someone shoots a woman with a fetus, you can get 2 murder charges. so it seems that it's a life if someone else kills the fetus, but conveniently it's NOT a life when the mother destroys it.
make sure the fortune that you seek...is the fortune that you need
so with that presupposition why would you be pro-choice? You just classified the the fetus as life. So you agree that life should be terminated as long as one of the 2 people responsible for helping create it feels it should be killed? The thing that I find esp weird with this whole debate is that if someone shoots a woman with a fetus, you can get 2 murder charges. so it seems that it's a life if someone else kills the fetus, but conveniently it's NOT a life when the mother destroys it.
Well,,, you have dragged a few new issues into this that have nothing to do with what I have said.
I do care about the life.. the whole life.
As a community we do not provide mentoirng, food, healthcare, shelter or education for our children. Nor do we provide protection from neglect and abuse.
Just last week my friend sat on the jury where a man was convicted of aggrivated sexual assault. He had been having sex with his stepdaughter from age 11. this was discovered when at age 14 she delivered his baby. She became aware she was pregnant on a Friday during a hospital visit because she was feeling sick.. learned she was pregnant and delivered that Sunday. This man had 5 other younger children. He got 99 years.
I am sure that story is in no way relevant - except to say that that poor girl suffered years of unbelievable abuse and nobody cared enough to know. We leave children to their families.
In a society such as ours- where we feel no responsibility to provide for the needs of the children.. and don't give a damn what happens to them as long as we don't see it... that society should mind its own business when it comes to family planning.
I would be pro life in a world that cares for its children... and I'd love to be pro life
Well,,, you have dragged a few new issues into this that have nothing to do with what I have said.
I do care about the life.. the whole life.
As a community we do not provide mentoirng, food, healthcare, shelter or education for our children. Nor do we provide protection from neglect and abuse.
Just last week my friend sat on the jury where a man was convicted of aggrivated sexual assault. He had been having sex with his stepdaughter from age 11. this was discovered when at age 14 she delivered his baby. She became aware she was pregnant on a Friday during a hospital visit because she was feeling sick.. learned she was pregnant and delivered that Sunday. This man had 5 other younger children. He got 99 years.
I am sure that story is in no way relevant - except to say that that poor girl suffered years of unbelievable abuse and nobody cared enough to know. We leave children to their families.
In a society such as ours- where we feel no responsibility to provide for the needs of the children.. and don't give a damn what happens to them as long as we don't see it... that society should mind its own business when it comes to family planning.
I would be pro life in a world that cares for its children... and I'd love to be pro life
thank you for the honest answer. I agree that we definitely need to become a society that is focused on children (not in a spoil the children way, but in a help the children way...discipline, food, example of how to act etc...). I don't think it's fair to society to say we don't offer some of the above, but I agree that we definitely need to step it up. I think a lot of this begins in the home. How can we possibly expect a community to step up for other people if they won't even step up in their own home and be a leader. We have such a skewed view of respect and responsibility in our society now, and I think a lot of it lies in our selfish society. I don't think that abstinence only is the way to go and that limiting birth control availability isnt the way to go (i do think that abortion shouldnt' be a birth control option) either. But I think you see a lot of the problems/situations are lack in parenting, responsibility and communication. With a breakdown in those 3 areas we are a society that has to overcome a lot of obstacles, perhaps the obstacles are insurmountable. We need something more than money or options or govt programs thrown at it; we need a radical change in our philosophy on society and life.
make sure the fortune that you seek...is the fortune that you need
Comments
Good argument. It's counter would be vasectomy, or tubes tied. Not sure what those operations cost.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
If they are poor enough to be on welfare then I don't think they could afford these operations. Maybe make these operations free to those on welfare. But that might be to close to Universal Healthcare which Conservatives are also against.
I guess I'm reaching the point where I believe Conservatives don't care about poor people. Unless they aren't born yet.
6/7/2003 (***1/2)
7/9/2006 (****1/2)
7/13/2006 (**** )
4/10/2008 EV Solo (****1/2)
6/25/2008 MSG II (*****)
10/1/2009 LA II (****)
10/6/2009 LA III (***** Cornell!!!)
toilet joke anyone? anyone?
man you people are taking the high road today.
you're right, I guess. Though I was speaking specifically of high fructose corn syrup.
about $700
approximately the first month of food and diapers probably.
I agree with the idea behind your post, but I have to call you out on the line above... no one is forcing anyone to have a kid... unless in cases like abuse or rape or whatever, people get pregnant while willingly having sex.
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
It kinda goes to show you how far out past the "abortion is wrong, so don't do it" argument they actually sit down and conceptualize.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
I agree. I also LOVE MacGyver and Stardog Champion.
Mistakes are made. No one is perfect. The majority of adults have had unprotected sex at least once because they had to much to drink, got caught up in the moment etc. but weren't ready, didn't want a kid. Thank god I never slipped one past the goalie!
Now if I made a mistake I could afford to live with it, and more importantly my kid would have the care and food that is needed.
Others aren't as fortunate as me.
6/7/2003 (***1/2)
7/9/2006 (****1/2)
7/13/2006 (**** )
4/10/2008 EV Solo (****1/2)
6/25/2008 MSG II (*****)
10/1/2009 LA II (****)
10/6/2009 LA III (***** Cornell!!!)
Agreed. Many women/couples aren't having just one abortion, they are having multiple. That is using it as a form of birth control and that is where the problem really lies.
Oh without a doubt I support universal birth control. It should be easily and cheapily made available to all who inquire. I'm not saying to hand it out at high schools, I don't want any Bill O'reilly types jumping on my case for that. But planned parenthood is a great tool for anyone who is sexually active.
However what group of people are against Planned Parenthood and teaching birth control?
You got it Conservatives!
6/7/2003 (***1/2)
7/9/2006 (****1/2)
7/13/2006 (**** )
4/10/2008 EV Solo (****1/2)
6/25/2008 MSG II (*****)
10/1/2009 LA II (****)
10/6/2009 LA III (***** Cornell!!!)
I definitely understand and agree with you, but just your choice of the word "force" kinda bothered me. I wasn't disagreeing, I guess I just got hung up on semantics.
That's a myth that is thrown around by pro-lifers too... Yes, there are some sick people who get multiple abortions, but the vast majority don't do it repeatedly or "use it as a form of birth control".
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
Good everyone better agree! j/k
Just to clarify by forced I meant once already pregnant. No one is forced to get pregnant. That is why birth control is the best method to end abortion.
Of course that would make Ann Coulter's head spin!
6/7/2003 (***1/2)
7/9/2006 (****1/2)
7/13/2006 (**** )
4/10/2008 EV Solo (****1/2)
6/25/2008 MSG II (*****)
10/1/2009 LA II (****)
10/6/2009 LA III (***** Cornell!!!)
I agree.
Any one involved in RAP should have an abortion.
If I opened it now would you not understand?
I dont care much for abortion debate but this statement is just ridiculous.
I hope you never own or operate a sandwich shop...
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
The Conservatives are against welfare, etc line is a bit ridiculous too. "Conservatives" are against the abuse of the programs. Nobody is against helping people that truly need it. I also think the problem with some social programs is its just a handout. I'd happily support a program where you get finanicial assistance for school, daycare and living expenses while you are getting an education or training but I'm not willing to support a program where you get to sit home and collect a check indefinitely with no regards to the future.
As for the abortion issue, people are never going to agree on anything about it.. the terms used for it, the reasoning behind it, the legislation..nothing.
thats both funny and disgusting at the same time!
Thats fine and all. Really good points. But the problem is I never hear solutions to welfare reform. It is also noted that the current administration supports abstinence only sex education teachings which has one fatal flaw: basic human desires.
I just want to hear alternative solutions from Conservatives. I honestly only hear that they are against pro life, sex ed, welfare in its current sate, etc but I never hear the solutions. That is what I want addressed by Conservatives running for office.
As an independent my vote is up for grabs but keeps going to the democrats because the majority of the Republican party has lost touch with the middle class, the poor, and reality.
6/7/2003 (***1/2)
7/9/2006 (****1/2)
7/13/2006 (**** )
4/10/2008 EV Solo (****1/2)
6/25/2008 MSG II (*****)
10/1/2009 LA II (****)
10/6/2009 LA III (***** Cornell!!!)
Bingo.
Bush claims to be "pro-life", yet he seems to have no qualms about sending thousands of soldiers off to die and vetoes health care for kids. Guess he only cares about them before they're born...
But as with anything in society, the terms are badly selected and poorly defined.
Pro-Life, implicitly suggests that anything else is Pro-Death
Likewise, the alternative to Pro-Choice is Pro-Mandate
Actually, the latter seems more well defined.
so with that presupposition why would you be pro-choice? You just classified the the fetus as life. So you agree that life should be terminated as long as one of the 2 people responsible for helping create it feels it should be killed? The thing that I find esp weird with this whole debate is that if someone shoots a woman with a fetus, you can get 2 murder charges. so it seems that it's a life if someone else kills the fetus, but conveniently it's NOT a life when the mother destroys it.
Well,,, you have dragged a few new issues into this that have nothing to do with what I have said.
I do care about the life.. the whole life.
As a community we do not provide mentoirng, food, healthcare, shelter or education for our children. Nor do we provide protection from neglect and abuse.
Just last week my friend sat on the jury where a man was convicted of aggrivated sexual assault. He had been having sex with his stepdaughter from age 11. this was discovered when at age 14 she delivered his baby. She became aware she was pregnant on a Friday during a hospital visit because she was feeling sick.. learned she was pregnant and delivered that Sunday. This man had 5 other younger children. He got 99 years.
I am sure that story is in no way relevant - except to say that that poor girl suffered years of unbelievable abuse and nobody cared enough to know. We leave children to their families.
In a society such as ours- where we feel no responsibility to provide for the needs of the children.. and don't give a damn what happens to them as long as we don't see it... that society should mind its own business when it comes to family planning.
I would be pro life in a world that cares for its children... and I'd love to be pro life
thank you for the honest answer. I agree that we definitely need to become a society that is focused on children (not in a spoil the children way, but in a help the children way...discipline, food, example of how to act etc...). I don't think it's fair to society to say we don't offer some of the above, but I agree that we definitely need to step it up. I think a lot of this begins in the home. How can we possibly expect a community to step up for other people if they won't even step up in their own home and be a leader. We have such a skewed view of respect and responsibility in our society now, and I think a lot of it lies in our selfish society. I don't think that abstinence only is the way to go and that limiting birth control availability isnt the way to go (i do think that abortion shouldnt' be a birth control option) either. But I think you see a lot of the problems/situations are lack in parenting, responsibility and communication. With a breakdown in those 3 areas we are a society that has to overcome a lot of obstacles, perhaps the obstacles are insurmountable. We need something more than money or options or govt programs thrown at it; we need a radical change in our philosophy on society and life.