is this fence thing a joke?

Milestone

mammasan wrote:

Well actaully most of the cost atributed to illegal immigrants is spent on their American-born children. So the money is not specificall going to illegal immigrants but to US citizens.

http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

Great. So, I need to channel my anger towards immigrant children instead of the adults.

(just kidding)

Ahnimus

macgyver06 wrote:

no offense..i love canada...but if heaven is being constrained to a bunch of ice...than i want no part of it

theres a reason you dont need a good army...NO ONE WANTS ICE PLANTS!

That's right, it's all ice up here. Cold, slippery ice. You don't want to come up here. Stay there where it isn't all cold and icy.

sponger

I hope it's electric.

hippiemom

Milestone wrote:

Yes, I care. I don't like them being eligible for Social Security benefits that I have paid into my entire life.

I don't like them getting free medical care, when I pay $400 per month for insurance and still have huge deductibles.

Actually, illegal workers don't drain Social Security, they help us out. In order to get jobs, many of them obtain false identification and pay into the system under their fake Social Security numbers. They can't ever collect these funds ... in fact, they can't ever collect ANY funds without obtaining legal status. So we should thank them for helping us to keep the Social Security system solvent for just a little bit longer by paying in and never receiving any benefits.

brain of c

i lived 20 miles from the border, in az, for 22 years. trust me, a fence won't keep anybody out, so yes, it's a joke.

yoke

I don't think that a fence is enough.. I say a 50ft wall with the National Guard walking on the top and towers every 100ft with spotlights. If they still get over the wall they will have to deal with the moat with gators, a barbwire mine field then the desert.

I don't understand the quote that they are taking jobs americans don't want... What is that? I don't want construction jobs!! Not to mention that a lot of them don't have a Drivers License or Insurance. I was rear-ended by an ILLEGAL ALIEN 2 years ago and guess what happened? NOTHING not a ****ING thing to them, but I got to pay for my damages and then my insurance went up. Yeah, they are great lets let more in.


SEND THEM BACK AND LOCK THEM OUT!!!!!

sponger

I don't know why, but I'm sorta skeptical that our social security is being supported by illegal immigrants through contributions via stolen SS#s. I have the idea that if we weigh out the drain vs. the gain, we'd see a different picture.

I haven't done any real homework on this, but I think the immigration problem lies with America's addiction to illicit drugs. Mexico's impoverished, yet hard-working population is suffering at the hands of government corruption. And that's because Mexico's government is run by drug dealers.

So, things like infrastructure & education are ignored because there isnt' enough oversight. And so their economy suffers, leaving mexicans with no choice but to hump it across the border.

Instead of building a fence, we should start levying fines against businesses that employ undocumented workers. That way mexicans can just starve and rot on their side of the border.

hippiemom

Whatever your thoughts on illegal immigrants, how can anyone think that this fence is anything but a joke? This is from a Molly Ivins column a couple of months back:

"In 1983, I was a judge at the Terlingua Chili Cookoff, where we also held the First-Ever Terlingua Memorial Day Over, Under or Through Mexican Fence-Climbing Contest. To be specific: a seventeen-foot cyclone fence with barbed wire at the top. Prize: a case of Lone Star beer. Winning time: thirty seconds."

Come on ... a FENCE? If the goal is to keep fat, out-of-shape Mexicans out, then alright, it will probably work. If the goal is to do something meaningful and effective about illegal immigration, anyone thinking "fence" is delusional.

If you want to really stop illegal immigration, go find an illegal immigrant with a job, then put the person that hired him in prison for a couple of years. Then do it again. And again. And again. You'll slow it WAY down.

PaperPlates

hippiemom wrote:

Whatever your thoughts on illegal immigrants, how can anyone think that this fence is anything but a joke? This is from a Molly Ivins column a couple of months back:

"In 1983, I was a judge at the Terlingua Chili Cookoff, where we also held the First-Ever Terlingua Memorial Day Over, Under or Through Mexican Fence-Climbing Contest. To be specific: a seventeen-foot cyclone fence with barbed wire at the top. Prize: a case of Lone Star beer. Winning time: thirty seconds."

Come on ... a FENCE? If the goal is to keep fat, out-of-shape Mexicans out, then alright, it will probably work. If the goal is to do something meaningful and effective about illegal immigration, anyone thinking "fence" is delusional.

If you want to really stop illegal immigration, go find an illegal immigrant with a job, then put the person that hired him in prison for a couple of years. Then do it again. And again. And again. You'll slow it WAY down.

soooooooooooooo you're FOR jailing the employer, but not the "illegally here" criminal who got hired as well? Makes sense. You guys have created so many victims, I dont even think you can keep them all straight anymore.

hippiemom

PaperPlates wrote:

soooooooooooooo you're FOR jailing the employer, but not the "illegally here" criminal who got hired as well? Makes sense. You guys have created so many victims, I dont even think you can keep them all straight anymore.

Actually, I'm not for either one, I was just suggesting something that might have a measurable effect on the problem for those of you that are all worked up about it.

As long as there's a good chance of improving their standard of living, they're going to keep coming. No fence is going to keep them out, and the threat of jail or deportation to people already in desperate cirucmstances simply isn't frightening enough to stop them.

The guy who owns the chicken packing plant, or the homeowner looking for a gardener or a maid, on the other hand .... they've got nice comfy lives and lots to lose. Jail would actually be a deterrant for them.

Abookamongstthemany

PaperPlates wrote:

soooooooooooooo you're FOR jailing the employer, but not the "illegally here" criminal who got hired as well? Makes sense. You guys have created so many victims, I dont even think you can keep them all straight anymore.

Have you ever heard of the concept of fixing problems at their root cause? It works! Fighting off the symptoms doesn't do much of anything.

sponger

yeah, really. that's like jailing the drug addict and letting the dealer go free.

Hope&Anger

PaperPlates wrote:

soooooooooooooo you're FOR jailing the employer, but not the "illegally here" criminal who got hired as well? Makes sense. You guys have created so many victims, I dont even think you can keep them all straight anymore.

I don't want to put them in jail . . . I want to impose really heavy fines on them. And then we can use the money to pay for more law enforcement (or build a fence or whatever . . . ) And it will probably stop those employers from hiring people without the proper papers.

I mean, the employers are breaking the law too. And they're the ones with the jobs that are luring all those "illegals" over the border. So instead of punishing the supply, why not try to punish the demand?

Makes perfect economic sense (though I know that making sense isn't all that popular on this board).

ThumbingMyWay32

Ofcourse it's a joke. A Republican president signed off on it didn't he?

kenny olav

I blame this on the powerful fence builders lobby.

ThumbingMyWay32

Yeah. Big Fence is definately behind this.

Open

PJPOWER wrote:

I will say that I find it very ironic how the world hates the US so much, yet people are willing to crawl, climb, swim, float, run, risk starvation, etc. to get here............Mexico must be a real shit hole.....

People hate the US because of the actions that effect the peoples countries. They dont just hate it to hate it. Once the US makes a shithole of a place of course they're going to want to come here.

macgyver06

PJPOWER wrote:

They took my bicycle when I was 6.............lol...........You have no logic......I no longer reply to you, I really don't see them taking "nothing" from me when I pay taxes that pay for people to abuse welfare..........not that ALL of them do.

you pay for concrete backroads in your town that Semi's drive down to cut out rush hour times... what should we do about this?? its your ''tax dollar''

please...its miniscule... and whats wrong to given a dollar or a fraction of a dollar to someone who doesnt live as good as you think you do.

mammasan

sponger wrote:

I don't know why, but I'm sorta skeptical that our social security is being supported by illegal immigrants through contributions via stolen SS#s. I have the idea that if we weigh out the drain vs. the gain, we'd see a different picture.

I haven't done any real homework on this, but I think the immigration problem lies with America's addiction to illicit drugs. Mexico's impoverished, yet hard-working population is suffering at the hands of government corruption. And that's because Mexico's government is run by drug dealers.

So, things like infrastructure & education are ignored because there isnt' enough oversight. And so their economy suffers, leaving mexicans with no choice but to hump it across the border.

Instead of building a fence, we should start levying fines against businesses that employ undocumented workers. That way mexicans can just starve and rot on their side of the border.

These figures are from 2002. The amount on federal tax dollars spent on social programs for illegal immigrants was 26.3 billion dollars. The amount of federal taxes collect from illegal immigrants, through fake SS#, was 16 billion dollars. So yes there was a 10.3 billion dollar deficit because of illegals, but most of those 26.3 billion dollars where spent not on the illegals themselves but on their US born children. I would say compare this 10.3 billion dollar deficit to the deficit created by welfare abuses carried out by US citizens and you would probably see that it is insignificant. I don't approve of anyone abusing the system, but the excuse that these people are a severe drain on our tax dollars is a joke. Our own elected officials are a bigger drain on our tax dollars.

hairpants

ledvedderman wrote:

There is wasteful spending no matter where tax dollars are spents, let's not get into a debate about that. Let's debate about this bullshit fence.

I would prefer they stop thinking that throwing money at the situation will absolve them of their responsibility to tackle the tough and often unpopular issues that are intrinsic to meaningful US/Mexico border policy reform. Sadly there seems to be only a handful of genuine testicle-bearing Senators in the entire chamber. Election season is generally a disheartening time for me, but this particular year has sent me spiralling into depths of cynicism I haven't experienced since I found out the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus weren't real.