Well actaully most of the cost atributed to illegal immigrants is spent on their American-born children. So the money is not specificall going to illegal immigrants but to US citizens.
no offense..i love canada...but if heaven is being constrained to a bunch of ice...than i want no part of it
theres a reason you dont need a good army...NO ONE WANTS ICE PLANTS!
That's right, it's all ice up here. Cold, slippery ice. You don't want to come up here. Stay there where it isn't all cold and icy.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Yes, I care. I don't like them being eligible for Social Security benefits that I have paid into my entire life.
I don't like them getting free medical care, when I pay $400 per month for insurance and still have huge deductibles.
Actually, illegal workers don't drain Social Security, they help us out. In order to get jobs, many of them obtain false identification and pay into the system under their fake Social Security numbers. They can't ever collect these funds ... in fact, they can't ever collect ANY funds without obtaining legal status. So we should thank them for helping us to keep the Social Security system solvent for just a little bit longer by paying in and never receiving any benefits.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
I don't think that a fence is enough.. I say a 50ft wall with the National Guard walking on the top and towers every 100ft with spotlights. If they still get over the wall they will have to deal with the moat with gators, a barbwire mine field then the desert.
I don't understand the quote that they are taking jobs americans don't want... What is that? I don't want construction jobs!! Not to mention that a lot of them don't have a Drivers License or Insurance. I was rear-ended by an ILLEGAL ALIEN 2 years ago and guess what happened? NOTHING not a ****ING thing to them, but I got to pay for my damages and then my insurance went up. Yeah, they are great lets let more in.
I don't know why, but I'm sorta skeptical that our social security is being supported by illegal immigrants through contributions via stolen SS#s. I have the idea that if we weigh out the drain vs. the gain, we'd see a different picture.
I haven't done any real homework on this, but I think the immigration problem lies with America's addiction to illicit drugs. Mexico's impoverished, yet hard-working population is suffering at the hands of government corruption. And that's because Mexico's government is run by drug dealers.
So, things like infrastructure & education are ignored because there isnt' enough oversight. And so their economy suffers, leaving mexicans with no choice but to hump it across the border.
Instead of building a fence, we should start levying fines against businesses that employ undocumented workers. That way mexicans can just starve and rot on their side of the border.
Whatever your thoughts on illegal immigrants, how can anyone think that this fence is anything but a joke? This is from a Molly Ivins column a couple of months back:
"In 1983, I was a judge at the Terlingua Chili Cookoff, where we also held the First-Ever Terlingua Memorial Day Over, Under or Through Mexican Fence-Climbing Contest. To be specific: a seventeen-foot cyclone fence with barbed wire at the top. Prize: a case of Lone Star beer. Winning time: thirty seconds."
Come on ... a FENCE? If the goal is to keep fat, out-of-shape Mexicans out, then alright, it will probably work. If the goal is to do something meaningful and effective about illegal immigration, anyone thinking "fence" is delusional.
If you want to really stop illegal immigration, go find an illegal immigrant with a job, then put the person that hired him in prison for a couple of years. Then do it again. And again. And again. You'll slow it WAY down.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
Whatever your thoughts on illegal immigrants, how can anyone think that this fence is anything but a joke? This is from a Molly Ivins column a couple of months back:
"In 1983, I was a judge at the Terlingua Chili Cookoff, where we also held the First-Ever Terlingua Memorial Day Over, Under or Through Mexican Fence-Climbing Contest. To be specific: a seventeen-foot cyclone fence with barbed wire at the top. Prize: a case of Lone Star beer. Winning time: thirty seconds."
Come on ... a FENCE? If the goal is to keep fat, out-of-shape Mexicans out, then alright, it will probably work. If the goal is to do something meaningful and effective about illegal immigration, anyone thinking "fence" is delusional.
If you want to really stop illegal immigration, go find an illegal immigrant with a job, then put the person that hired him in prison for a couple of years. Then do it again. And again. And again. You'll slow it WAY down.
soooooooooooooo you're FOR jailing the employer, but not the "illegally here" criminal who got hired as well? Makes sense. You guys have created so many victims, I dont even think you can keep them all straight anymore.
soooooooooooooo you're FOR jailing the employer, but not the "illegally here" criminal who got hired as well? Makes sense. You guys have created so many victims, I dont even think you can keep them all straight anymore.
Actually, I'm not for either one, I was just suggesting something that might have a measurable effect on the problem for those of you that are all worked up about it.
As long as there's a good chance of improving their standard of living, they're going to keep coming. No fence is going to keep them out, and the threat of jail or deportation to people already in desperate cirucmstances simply isn't frightening enough to stop them.
The guy who owns the chicken packing plant, or the homeowner looking for a gardener or a maid, on the other hand .... they've got nice comfy lives and lots to lose. Jail would actually be a deterrant for them.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
soooooooooooooo you're FOR jailing the employer, but not the "illegally here" criminal who got hired as well? Makes sense. You guys have created so many victims, I dont even think you can keep them all straight anymore.
Have you ever heard of the concept of fixing problems at their root cause? It works! Fighting off the symptoms doesn't do much of anything.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
soooooooooooooo you're FOR jailing the employer, but not the "illegally here" criminal who got hired as well? Makes sense. You guys have created so many victims, I dont even think you can keep them all straight anymore.
I don't want to put them in jail . . . I want to impose really heavy fines on them. And then we can use the money to pay for more law enforcement (or build a fence or whatever . . . ) And it will probably stop those employers from hiring people without the proper papers.
I mean, the employers are breaking the law too. And they're the ones with the jobs that are luring all those "illegals" over the border. So instead of punishing the supply, why not try to punish the demand?
Makes perfect economic sense (though I know that making sense isn't all that popular on this board).
"Things will just get better and better even though it
doesn't feel that way right now. That's the hopeful
idea . . . Hope didn't get much applause . . .
Hope! Hope is the underdog!"
I will say that I find it very ironic how the world hates the US so much, yet people are willing to crawl, climb, swim, float, run, risk starvation, etc. to get here............Mexico must be a real shit hole.....
People hate the US because of the actions that effect the peoples countries. They dont just hate it to hate it. Once the US makes a shithole of a place of course they're going to want to come here.
They took my bicycle when I was 6.............lol...........You have no logic......I no longer reply to you, I really don't see them taking "nothing" from me when I pay taxes that pay for people to abuse welfare..........not that ALL of them do.
you pay for concrete backroads in your town that Semi's drive down to cut out rush hour times... what should we do about this?? its your ''tax dollar''
please...its miniscule... and whats wrong to given a dollar or a fraction of a dollar to someone who doesnt live as good as you think you do.
I don't know why, but I'm sorta skeptical that our social security is being supported by illegal immigrants through contributions via stolen SS#s. I have the idea that if we weigh out the drain vs. the gain, we'd see a different picture.
I haven't done any real homework on this, but I think the immigration problem lies with America's addiction to illicit drugs. Mexico's impoverished, yet hard-working population is suffering at the hands of government corruption. And that's because Mexico's government is run by drug dealers.
So, things like infrastructure & education are ignored because there isnt' enough oversight. And so their economy suffers, leaving mexicans with no choice but to hump it across the border.
Instead of building a fence, we should start levying fines against businesses that employ undocumented workers. That way mexicans can just starve and rot on their side of the border.
These figures are from 2002. The amount on federal tax dollars spent on social programs for illegal immigrants was 26.3 billion dollars. The amount of federal taxes collect from illegal immigrants, through fake SS#, was 16 billion dollars. So yes there was a 10.3 billion dollar deficit because of illegals, but most of those 26.3 billion dollars where spent not on the illegals themselves but on their US born children. I would say compare this 10.3 billion dollar deficit to the deficit created by welfare abuses carried out by US citizens and you would probably see that it is insignificant. I don't approve of anyone abusing the system, but the excuse that these people are a severe drain on our tax dollars is a joke. Our own elected officials are a bigger drain on our tax dollars.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
There is wasteful spending no matter where tax dollars are spents, let's not get into a debate about that. Let's debate about this bullshit fence.
I would prefer they stop thinking that throwing money at the situation will absolve them of their responsibility to tackle the tough and often unpopular issues that are intrinsic to meaningful US/Mexico border policy reform. Sadly there seems to be only a handful of genuine testicle-bearing Senators in the entire chamber. Election season is generally a disheartening time for me, but this particular year has sent me spiralling into depths of cynicism I haven't experienced since I found out the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus weren't real.
A 700 mile fence to keep out illegals is a joke. Kinda like the air space over New York City, we believed we were safe only to discover someone can still get through.
Just in case you didn't know, we do have fences along the border already under Project Gatekeeper. Just like the newly proposed 700 mile project, they're sectioned off to various areas, making them ineffective. Kinda like the use of the National Guard as babysitters.
This 700 fence project is only partially funded and they are proposing building only 200 miles over the next FIVE years, with construction not to start until after 2008. We build supermax prisons faster than that. I'm confident the proposed listening posts will be operational before 2008, so if they come across singing I'm an illegal or I'm a telee lee lee ban, we'll get em.
The bulk of your new illegals are coming THROUGH Mexico from Central America, maybe that's why Mexico doesn't give a damn.
This fence TALK is for you. It's not for immediate action. It's not for resolving any issue of border security or illegal immigration. It's your quick fix to hold you over until you realize you've been punk'd again. Kinda like gays not being considered married with the same rights and benefits as traditional couples. Oh snap!
SIN EATERS--We take the moral excrement we find in this equation and we bury it down deep inside of us so that the rest of our case can stay pure. That is the job. We are morally indefensible and absolutely necessary.
This fence TALK is for you. It's not for immediate action. It's not for resolving any issue of border security or illegal immigration. It's your quick fix to hold you over until you realize you've been punk'd again. Kinda like gays not being considered married with the same rights and benefits as traditional couples. Oh snap!
and there are people that don't see how they're being punked......toyed with....I just don't get it.
A 700 mile fence to keep out illegals is a joke. Kinda like the air space over New York City, we believed we were safe only to discover someone can still get through.
Just in case you didn't know, we do have fences along the border already under Project Gatekeeper. Just like the newly proposed 700 mile project, they're sectioned off to various areas, making them ineffective. Kinda like the use of the National Guard as babysitters.
This 700 fence project is only partially funded and they are proposing building only 200 miles over the next FIVE years, with construction not to start until after 2008. We build supermax prisons faster than that. I'm confident the proposed listening posts will be operational before 2008, so if they come across singing I'm an illegal or I'm a telee lee lee ban, we'll get em.
The bulk of your new illegals are coming THROUGH Mexico from Central America, maybe that's why Mexico doesn't give a damn.
This fence TALK is for you. It's not for immediate action. It's not for resolving any issue of border security or illegal immigration. It's your quick fix to hold you over until you realize you've been punk'd again. Kinda like gays not being considered married with the same rights and benefits as traditional couples. Oh snap!
I dont think its a solution. I believe its a start to a very complex problem. im glad you opened my eyes to being punked. :rolleyes:
I dont think its a solution. I believe its a start to a very complex problem. im glad you opened my eyes to being punked. :rolleyes:
How can it be a start when it has already been done. The fence concept is not new, it has been DONE. Stop talking like they've come up with a new, never tried, idea.
SIN EATERS--We take the moral excrement we find in this equation and we bury it down deep inside of us so that the rest of our case can stay pure. That is the job. We are morally indefensible and absolutely necessary.
I dont think its a solution. I believe its a start to a very complex problem. im glad you opened my eyes to being punked. :rolleyes:
you know...I don't want people coming into the country carte blanc either....I know the drain this is having on our economy...and am agaisnt it...its just the hypocracy of it....the biggest contributor to the Bush administration in Houston Texas is Perry Homes...who also is the biggest employer of illegal immegrants...I live in Houston....none of my republican friends cut their own grass or mulch their lawns or wash their cars, all eat at good restaurants with good prices(go to Europe and eat a meal..its not $8.00) ...they're paying illegals to do it...this fence thing is a farce.....Bush knows he can't even think about going after those that actually employ and lure the illegals here cause they're his biggest supporters..so when he does crap like this fence deal he's punking you. I try not to offend...just get really frustrated at the continued crap the Bush administration doles out to get their results. By the way...I read alot of your posts...can't help it..your here alot...and think your a cool dude...and if your ever in Houston...I'll buy you a beer...
Actually, I'm not for either one, I was just suggesting something that might have a measurable effect on the problem for those of you that are all worked up about it.
As long as there's a good chance of improving their standard of living, they're going to keep coming. No fence is going to keep them out, and the threat of jail or deportation to people already in desperate cirucmstances simply isn't frightening enough to stop them.
The guy who owns the chicken packing plant, or the homeowner looking for a gardener or a maid, on the other hand .... they've got nice comfy lives and lots to lose. Jail would actually be a deterrant for them.
the middle paragraph is awesome here...and proves why we should be helping these people..
do you reallly care if they have benefits??? worry about yourself and stay out of peoples business...leave these people alone god dammit! they have been through enuff!!...it aint easy leaving your HOMELAND.. YOUR COUNTRY... think about it!
WTF?
Fuck yeah i care if they get benefits.
IT COMES OUT OF MY POCKET.
That's worrying about myself.
And if you don't see the problems with rewarding criminal behavior, then you are a lost cause.
How about we turn a blind eye everytime a homeless person robs a homeowner.
Hey, have some compassion, right?
It's hard being homeless.
WTF.
Your ignorance on this issue is astounding.
A fence may not be the answer,
but just letting any illegal immigrant in to this country that feels like coming here is still a problem, and allowing them access to any sort of entitlements is a HUGE problem.
Thats like leaving cheese all over your house, then complaining about rats in your house.
(BTW, i like Rats and Mexicans, so don't get all offended here)
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
So basically this whole fence plan, if I understand it right, hinges on the hope that no one in Mexico has access to either a pair of bolt cutters, a ladder, or a shovel. Since if any of those items is available to someone who wants to cross the border is an unguarded fence really going to stop them? Unless someone guarding every inch of that fence, I can't see it being much more then a temporary obstacle.
Comments
Great. So, I need to channel my anger towards immigrant children instead of the adults.
(just kidding)
7-6-2006 Las Vegas. 7-20-2006 Portland. 7-22-2006 Gorge. 9-21-2009 Seattle. 9-22-2009 Seattle. 9-26-2009 Ridgefield. 9-25-2011 Vancouver.
11-29-2013 Portland. 10-16-2014 Detroit. 8-8-2018 Seattle. 8-10-2018 Seattle. 8-13-2018 Missoula. 5-10-2024 Portland. 5-30-2024 Seattle.
That's right, it's all ice up here. Cold, slippery ice. You don't want to come up here. Stay there where it isn't all cold and icy.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
http://www.myspace.com/brain_of_c
I don't understand the quote that they are taking jobs americans don't want... What is that? I don't want construction jobs!! Not to mention that a lot of them don't have a Drivers License or Insurance. I was rear-ended by an ILLEGAL ALIEN 2 years ago and guess what happened? NOTHING not a ****ING thing to them, but I got to pay for my damages and then my insurance went up. Yeah, they are great lets let more in.
SEND THEM BACK AND LOCK THEM OUT!!!!!
www.seanbrady.net
I haven't done any real homework on this, but I think the immigration problem lies with America's addiction to illicit drugs. Mexico's impoverished, yet hard-working population is suffering at the hands of government corruption. And that's because Mexico's government is run by drug dealers.
So, things like infrastructure & education are ignored because there isnt' enough oversight. And so their economy suffers, leaving mexicans with no choice but to hump it across the border.
Instead of building a fence, we should start levying fines against businesses that employ undocumented workers. That way mexicans can just starve and rot on their side of the border.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
"In 1983, I was a judge at the Terlingua Chili Cookoff, where we also held the First-Ever Terlingua Memorial Day Over, Under or Through Mexican Fence-Climbing Contest. To be specific: a seventeen-foot cyclone fence with barbed wire at the top. Prize: a case of Lone Star beer. Winning time: thirty seconds."
Come on ... a FENCE? If the goal is to keep fat, out-of-shape Mexicans out, then alright, it will probably work. If the goal is to do something meaningful and effective about illegal immigration, anyone thinking "fence" is delusional.
If you want to really stop illegal immigration, go find an illegal immigrant with a job, then put the person that hired him in prison for a couple of years. Then do it again. And again. And again. You'll slow it WAY down.
soooooooooooooo you're FOR jailing the employer, but not the "illegally here" criminal who got hired as well? Makes sense. You guys have created so many victims, I dont even think you can keep them all straight anymore.
www.myspace.com/jensvad
As long as there's a good chance of improving their standard of living, they're going to keep coming. No fence is going to keep them out, and the threat of jail or deportation to people already in desperate cirucmstances simply isn't frightening enough to stop them.
The guy who owns the chicken packing plant, or the homeowner looking for a gardener or a maid, on the other hand .... they've got nice comfy lives and lots to lose. Jail would actually be a deterrant for them.
Have you ever heard of the concept of fixing problems at their root cause? It works! Fighting off the symptoms doesn't do much of anything.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
I mean, the employers are breaking the law too. And they're the ones with the jobs that are luring all those "illegals" over the border. So instead of punishing the supply, why not try to punish the demand?
Makes perfect economic sense (though I know that making sense isn't all that popular on this board).
doesn't feel that way right now. That's the hopeful
idea . . . Hope didn't get much applause . . .
Hope! Hope is the underdog!"
-- EV, Live at the Showbox
"What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact."
Camden 5-28-06
Washington, D.C. 6-22-08
"What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact."
Camden 5-28-06
Washington, D.C. 6-22-08
People hate the US because of the actions that effect the peoples countries. They dont just hate it to hate it. Once the US makes a shithole of a place of course they're going to want to come here.
you pay for concrete backroads in your town that Semi's drive down to cut out rush hour times... what should we do about this?? its your ''tax dollar''
please...its miniscule... and whats wrong to given a dollar or a fraction of a dollar to someone who doesnt live as good as you think you do.
These figures are from 2002. The amount on federal tax dollars spent on social programs for illegal immigrants was 26.3 billion dollars. The amount of federal taxes collect from illegal immigrants, through fake SS#, was 16 billion dollars. So yes there was a 10.3 billion dollar deficit because of illegals, but most of those 26.3 billion dollars where spent not on the illegals themselves but on their US born children. I would say compare this 10.3 billion dollar deficit to the deficit created by welfare abuses carried out by US citizens and you would probably see that it is insignificant. I don't approve of anyone abusing the system, but the excuse that these people are a severe drain on our tax dollars is a joke. Our own elected officials are a bigger drain on our tax dollars.
I would prefer they stop thinking that throwing money at the situation will absolve them of their responsibility to tackle the tough and often unpopular issues that are intrinsic to meaningful US/Mexico border policy reform. Sadly there seems to be only a handful of genuine testicle-bearing Senators in the entire chamber. Election season is generally a disheartening time for me, but this particular year has sent me spiralling into depths of cynicism I haven't experienced since I found out the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus weren't real.
A 700 mile fence to keep out illegals is a joke. Kinda like the air space over New York City, we believed we were safe only to discover someone can still get through.
Just in case you didn't know, we do have fences along the border already under Project Gatekeeper. Just like the newly proposed 700 mile project, they're sectioned off to various areas, making them ineffective. Kinda like the use of the National Guard as babysitters.
This 700 fence project is only partially funded and they are proposing building only 200 miles over the next FIVE years, with construction not to start until after 2008. We build supermax prisons faster than that. I'm confident the proposed listening posts will be operational before 2008, so if they come across singing I'm an illegal or I'm a telee lee lee ban, we'll get em.
The bulk of your new illegals are coming THROUGH Mexico from Central America, maybe that's why Mexico doesn't give a damn.
This fence TALK is for you. It's not for immediate action. It's not for resolving any issue of border security or illegal immigration. It's your quick fix to hold you over until you realize you've been punk'd again. Kinda like gays not being considered married with the same rights and benefits as traditional couples. Oh snap!
and there are people that don't see how they're being punked......toyed with....I just don't get it.
I dont think its a solution. I believe its a start to a very complex problem. im glad you opened my eyes to being punked. :rolleyes:
How can it be a start when it has already been done. The fence concept is not new, it has been DONE. Stop talking like they've come up with a new, never tried, idea.
you know...I don't want people coming into the country carte blanc either....I know the drain this is having on our economy...and am agaisnt it...its just the hypocracy of it....the biggest contributor to the Bush administration in Houston Texas is Perry Homes...who also is the biggest employer of illegal immegrants...I live in Houston....none of my republican friends cut their own grass or mulch their lawns or wash their cars, all eat at good restaurants with good prices(go to Europe and eat a meal..its not $8.00) ...they're paying illegals to do it...this fence thing is a farce.....Bush knows he can't even think about going after those that actually employ and lure the illegals here cause they're his biggest supporters..so when he does crap like this fence deal he's punking you. I try not to offend...just get really frustrated at the continued crap the Bush administration doles out to get their results. By the way...I read alot of your posts...can't help it..your here alot...and think your a cool dude...and if your ever in Houston...I'll buy you a beer...
the middle paragraph is awesome here...and proves why we should be helping these people..
I ALWAYS LISTENED TO YOU
WTF?
Fuck yeah i care if they get benefits.
IT COMES OUT OF MY POCKET.
That's worrying about myself.
And if you don't see the problems with rewarding criminal behavior, then you are a lost cause.
How about we turn a blind eye everytime a homeless person robs a homeowner.
Hey, have some compassion, right?
It's hard being homeless.
WTF.
Your ignorance on this issue is astounding.
A fence may not be the answer,
but just letting any illegal immigrant in to this country that feels like coming here is still a problem, and allowing them access to any sort of entitlements is a HUGE problem.
Thats like leaving cheese all over your house, then complaining about rats in your house.
(BTW, i like Rats and Mexicans, so don't get all offended here)
If I opened it now would you not understand?