My perspective

shiraz

sponger wrote:

I was watching Emile Lahoud, President of Lebanon, being interviewed on some news station tonight. Most of his speech really tugged at my heart. He talked about the golan heights, the west bank, gaza, and so on. I know that Israel really hasn't done its best return to the pre-1967 borders.

But, then he said something that just blew me away:



translation: "I would like to do what is necessary to bring peace to this region, but I am afraid to piss off the wrong people. I don't have the spine needed to bring a better life to my people."

If you live in Lebanon, then I am sorry you have such a spinless, gutless leader who is more worried about saving face with the arabs than protecting his own people.

Syria, Iran, and probably even Turkey are all using Lebanon as their tool for carrying out their ideological wet-dreams. Do you remember what happened in '82 when Israel invaded Lebanon? The PLO was left stranded by all the arab nations. Even Arafat himself was disgusted at how little the arab nations were willing to do when it came down to it.

The only reason Arafat decided to stay in power and continue the PLO resistance was because he had gotten so used to being a celebrity amongst his constituents. The PLO upper echelon lived like kings while palestinian refugees continued to live in sqallor. Lebanon is a tool of middle east.

Leave Turkey out of it, we have GREAT relations with that country. Plus, I think Turkey is the one muslim country who actually fights against terrorism.

About Lebanon leadership: Besides the late prime minister Hariri, everyone there is basically a Syrian-Iranian marionette, which is why the Lebanese civilians need all the help they can get.

sponger

yeah, I don't know why I threw Turkey into the mix. I must be Hungary. Hardee, har, har.

kenny olav

Ahnimus wrote:

Not power, I just want to be free from soceity. I can buy an island of the east coast of Canada for around $300,000 if I had that kind of cash.

Seriously... I've been looking at islands off the east coast of Canada myself, particularly off Nova Scotia. They're all relatively cheap. If a bunch of us chipped in, we could buy one... set up a farming community there, sell our goods to the mainland, maybe a few of us could have jobs on the mainland, but try to be as self-sufficient as possible on the island... Pearl Jam Island.... or Jamily Island... or something like that. Would that not ROCK?

kenny olav

ruud wrote:

hey all thanks for you comments are replies. im glad people still care and havent put this behind them as many wars that seem to hav eno solution are forgotten about. im thankful everytime i get to get online and read what people have to say.

In the situation if anything got worse i hope that ill be able to come on again soon enough to talk to you ll again, if not then its just a matter of time before ill write back to you all.

take care keep supporting the cause of world without this nonsense of a war. everyone knows we have a whole lot of other problems without the ones caused by violence.

stay safe, ruud, and you too shiraz. i'm worried that the war is going get worse. i wish there was some way to soften all the hard-heads and hard-hearts.

kenny olav

BeBe wrote:

Well i have that cash..:)P

Well not that much, but I can sell my home and I think it would be enough to by an island. My own government. What an idea. My sons can't be drafted into nonsense wars, wow even better idea....The idea seems really nice...peace all around..

I'm with ya ruud...stay safe..

Hey, if you put down the initial payment, I think all of us would gladly be serfs in your fiefdom until we rise up to form guilds and then become the Bourgeoisie.

ruud

hey shiraz, i cant stress how truly appreciated your heartfelt honest and fact-filled answers are. You clearly do not include negative comments that dont get us anywhere and i felt i should tell you that from now.
it is a funny thing, two pearl jam fans,but from another angle completly the reverse of each other as it appears to the outside world. im glad i am not arguing and i would people out there to know more about thigns like this. i do agree that we disagree because ultimatly we both do not know the exact details of the goings-on of the world to the specific detail. we all tellwhat we believe. i am lebanese. you are israeli. we are so close but still extremly different. however there is more than one way that poeople can connect rather than just culturaly i still believe there ismore to it than that and agian i say that it is more of what people in general should understand.
i cannoty express how i feel about you living in a bomb shelter but that i am thankful that i do not need to find one yet or ever. althought it may have seemed that my coinditions are bad..compared to others i still am more gratful than one would realise from just reading these letters as i get to do more in my day of war, than millions of other people do in a life time. when it gets right down to it i believe that we are two peopel suffereing a pain in the world that has recently been most felt by many. besides the effects that mother nature can pour down on us when shes feels like it, our race of people chooses to harm each other with war and war of words.
but i fail to be changed. i am still myself culturaly open to those with an open-mind who approach things with realistic mindsets and unbiased opinions. in modern terms that means dont bring religiong into it, your family, your customs that arent compliant with those you are facing, and dont bring hate to the equation as there is no solution for that. racism changed the face of this earth so fast no on saw it coming. it put people on the defensive and made them state their pride for something false.
anyways to away fromthis i hiope thigns do turn up although i seem to bea pessimist...as for nerina pallot well shes great i really like her voice and the music and the lyrics right there were great haha its funny i thought the same about nobody knowing her either...its a strange world isnt it.
what youre sayingabout them gambling with our lives is the truth and what imtrying to get people outside to understand it is not the soldiers and missiles and governemtn officialsand terrorists that are suffereing it is the people...
sadlyas you concluded we have to wait really and see it is too hard for meto leave the country as many of those close to me did and it makes it just that much harder but i hope all be well soon enough although that is no guarantee of mylife i just keep saying to my selftomake myselffeel better the combination of three word sentences that build up that insufferable pain that pounds in your stomach when those dam bombs go off and your luck 'seems' to run out on you and the normalness , however normal, is gone.
take care and i hopeyouwill be safe as for those still in the dangerous areas there issolittlewecan do butletpeopleunderstand that just because the pain does not hit them directly it doesnt mean itwont catch up to them later even if they dont live remotlyclsoe tous. the effectsofwar willl be in our chidlren and chidlrens children just like how this war was formed, frompain and anger that people teach their chjildren and are accustomed to hating theresupposed enemies. once and for all the conlcusion of this last message,as a granchild of many fore fathers in thisland in lebanonm as im sure you are of your countrey, i can only say that 'an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind' and it couldntbe mre true because imlivbing thsi reality that people seem to beleive is the right way to go about living and teaching their children to live. that much change so that htisnever happens again..becuase we all know these thigns can come out of no where and surprise us all....israel was comfortabel, andlebanon was thriving economically...dont be surprised ifitdoes and dont go looking for any other problem besides the one i just told you about...which is the hatred put into children and children of these two arch enemies of cultures so that not only do we know our fathers hating each other but teaching the children to do so as well...and forcing them to lvieit... that must change...government interference and the oil greed will always be there and we can get past that but remember the problem i just toldyou about i live each day and see and hear from so many peoplkesm mouths...maybe shiraz could add on that too..
take care all thanks and im keeping safe as best as the chances i am given to be. thanks for your thoughts and messages
see you soon...

shiraz

ruud wrote:

hey shiraz, i cant stress how truly appreciated your heartfelt honest and fact-filled answers are. You clearly do not include negative comments that dont get us anywhere and i felt i should tell you that from now.
it is a funny thing, two pearl jam fans,but from another angle completly the reverse of each other as it appears to the outside world. im glad i am not arguing and i would people out there to know more about thigns like this. i do agree that we disagree because ultimatly we both do not know the exact details of the goings-on of the world to the specific detail. we all tellwhat we believe. i am lebanese. you are israeli. we are so close but still extremly different. however there is more than one way that poeople can connect rather than just culturaly i still believe there ismore to it than that and agian i say that it is more of what people in general should understand.
i cannoty express how i feel about you living in a bomb shelter but that i am thankful that i do not need to find one yet or ever. althought it may have seemed that my coinditions are bad..compared to others i still am more gratful than one would realise from just reading these letters as i get to do more in my day of war, than millions of other people do in a life time. when it gets right down to it i believe that we are two peopel suffereing a pain in the world that has recently been most felt by many. besides the effects that mother nature can pour down on us when shes feels like it, our race of people chooses to harm each other with war and war of words.
but i fail to be changed. i am still myself culturaly open to those with an open-mind who approach things with realistic mindsets and unbiased opinions. in modern terms that means dont bring religiong into it, your family, your customs that arent compliant with those you are facing, and dont bring hate to the equation as there is no solution for that. racism changed the face of this earth so fast no on saw it coming. it put people on the defensive and made them state their pride for something false.
anyways to away fromthis i hiope thigns do turn up although i seem to bea pessimist...as for nerina pallot well shes great i really like her voice and the music and the lyrics right there were great haha its funny i thought the same about nobody knowing her either...its a strange world isnt it.
what youre sayingabout them gambling with our lives is the truth and what imtrying to get people outside to understand it is not the soldiers and missiles and governemtn officialsand terrorists that are suffereing it is the people...
sadlyas you concluded we have to wait really and see it is too hard for meto leave the country as many of those close to me did and it makes it just that much harder but i hope all be well soon enough although that is no guarantee of mylife i just keep saying to my selftomake myselffeel better the combination of three word sentences that build up that insufferable pain that pounds in your stomach when those dam bombs go off and your luck 'seems' to run out on you and the normalness , however normal, is gone.
take care and i hopeyouwill be safe as for those still in the dangerous areas there issolittlewecan do butletpeopleunderstand that just because the pain does not hit them directly it doesnt mean itwont catch up to them later even if they dont live remotlyclsoe tous. the effectsofwar willl be in our chidlren and chidlrens children just like how this war was formed, frompain and anger that people teach their chjildren and are accustomed to hating theresupposed enemies. once and for all the conlcusion of this last message,as a granchild of many fore fathers in thisland in lebanonm as im sure you are of your countrey, i can only say that 'an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind' and it couldntbe mre true because imlivbing thsi reality that people seem to beleive is the right way to go about living and teaching their children to live. that much change so that htisnever happens again..becuase we all know these thigns can come out of no where and surprise us all....israel was comfortabel, andlebanon was thriving economically...dont be surprised ifitdoes and dont go looking for any other problem besides the one i just told you about...which is the hatred put into children and children of these two arch enemies of cultures so that not only do we know our fathers hating each other but teaching the children to do so as well...and forcing them to lvieit... that must change...government interference and the oil greed will always be there and we can get past that but remember the problem i just toldyou about i live each day and see and hear from so many peoplkesm mouths...maybe shiraz could add on that too..
take care all thanks and im keeping safe as best as the chances i am given to be. thanks for your thoughts and messages
see you soon...

Sorry if I'm bringing you down, its just that I'm a VERY realistic-analytical person. I don't believe in god, nor in most of the human-beings, just believe in my family, friends & myself. The only thing who can give me some comfort is MUSIC, but it seems like I almost can't enjoy it nor relax via listening to it in times like these. That "almost" is practically keeping me from going insane.

Did you heard about the first draft of the cease-fire agreement? What do you think about it?

Take care,

Shiraz.

p.s: I don't like Nerina Pallot, just that song - it's different than the old stuff she used to do.

Ahnimus

Kenny Olav wrote:

Seriously... I've been looking at islands off the east coast of Canada myself, particularly off Nova Scotia. They're all relatively cheap. If a bunch of us chipped in, we could buy one... set up a farming community there, sell our goods to the mainland, maybe a few of us could have jobs on the mainland, but try to be as self-sufficient as possible on the island... Pearl Jam Island.... or Jamily Island... or something like that. Would that not ROCK?

That would be awesome. So long as Ruud and Shiraz can come to hang out for a bit until all this blows over. A kind of a safe island. I suppose that's just a false sense of security though.

ruud

hey shiraz. i understand what you mean and dont wory about that i sometimes see life in such eyes but im kind of trying to say that you move slightly away from what someone would think the sterotypical israeli sounds like...but i understand what you mean about looking at things realisticly because thats the only to proceed with life positively i say. anyways take care and about the cease-fire draft i know very much about it but from what i got from the t.v after the arabs met in beirut they sent a draft with two people to the un right away and we'll see something of it sent to israel in the next few days...supposedly it is realistic enough but i have my doubts...because as it seems if israel decline..we got an un-ending war and its most likely the end of lebanon as far as that goes...hope not..i will try and get online tommorow and talk about it if anything cahnges...
see you...

yosi1

ruud wrote:

i want to stress to a few out there who support israel with a few words.
i am not here to curse you, or wish death upon you, but simply with a few words tell you that it is now up to YOUR COUNTRY to stop. Thge leader of the terrorist group in lebanon spoke hours ago which i heard to the full, he said exactly, they will stop firing if israelstop firing.

Its easy to say this, but keep in mind, Hezbollah attacked Israel unprovoked. Who is to say that Hezbollah will keep to thier words. Everyday hundreds of katyushas are flying into Israel. I am praying that you will be safe and that this conflict will end soon. But I for one will not be so naive as to believe that the terror and violence and killing from Hezbollah will stop if Israel stops fighting.

yosi1

shiraz wrote:

Hi! I was wondering what's going on with you. Did you also wake up today to sound of the alram/explosions like us?



I saw it too, but Nasralla meant he wants the air-force attacks on him to stop, and if we do that then he'll stop fireing on Israeli civilians (hence, the battle via ground troops remains). The problem is he said that before after Qana, but he still fired on Kiryat Shmona (though it wasn't as intense as it usually was) and deeper into Afulla. I think that's why my govt don't really trust his words. However, we are running out of time so I believe that cease-fire will come in one way or another.



No one said we can, ever since day one the IDF talked about getting rid of 50% of Hizbullah's power. If Nasralla is asking us to stop shooting, it means he is in trouble (you don't really think he cares about civilians, do you? cause if you do, you are VERY naive), so I believe the IDF will try to keep hurting him in every way they can, till they have no other choice but to stop. Yes, it means both of us are gonna keep on suffering, and that's really some bad news :(




Hizbullah threatened on Tel Aviv, THAN we threatened on Beirut - Only thing we did up untill now is shooting at Hizbullah neighborhoods in southern Beirut. Either way, it does sound like a stupid game. The problem is, they are playing with our lifes :(




Just like me.




Again, Nasralla was the one who threatened Tel Aviv, we didn't fire at Beirut besides Hizbullah's areas, and there's no reason why we would do such a thing. This is Nasralla with his same attempts of stirring things up, just like he was trying to pull Syria into this when Israel repeatedly said we don't want to have anything to do with Syria.

*edit*: I forgot to mention that yesterday night (~21:00), Nasralla did try to fire 1 or 2 missiles towards Tel Aviv, how ever we were able to shot them down before they've reached their target. No one got hurt, and we didn't bomb Beirut nor shut down Lebanon's electricity power. Like I said, we can't trust that guy - he says what he wants and does what he wants.



I didn't understand your last sentence, but never mind. I think it is up not only to the both of us, but also to the rest of the world. Nothing good would happen if no one is gonna help you get rid of Hizbullah - we'll end up in the same spot we are now maybe 3 years from now.



"For every man who wants to rule the world, There'll be a man who just wants to be free, What do we learn but what should not be learnt? Too late to find a cure for this disease...
If God's on our side, then God is a joker, Asleep on the job, his children fall over, Running out through the door and straight to the sky, I don't want to die..."

Nerina pallot, I thought I'm the only one who likes that song of hers.



I'm glad you're not in a shelter. Tomorrow it'll be 21 days for me inside the shelter. I'm a prisoner within my own home, hope you'll never have to feel like that in some part of your life. I also think we can't really do anything besides sit here and wait till it will be over soon. Maybe its pessimism, or maybe it is just over-experience.




Take care, I hope to hear from you soon, and I also hope this whole shit we'll be over ASAP.


Shiraz

Shiraz stay safe too.

shiraz

ruud wrote:

hey shiraz. i understand what you mean and dont wory about that i sometimes see life in such eyes but im kind of trying to say that you move slightly away from what someone would think the sterotypical israeli sounds like...but i understand what you mean about looking at things realisticly because thats the only to proceed with life positively i say. anyways take care and about the cease-fire draft i know very much about it but from what i got from the t.v after the arabs met in beirut they sent a draft with two people to the un right away and we'll see something of it sent to israel in the next few days...supposedly it is realistic enough but i have my doubts...because as it seems if israel decline..we got an un-ending war and its most likely the end of lebanon as far as that goes...hope not..i will try and get online tommorow and talk about it if anything cahnges...
see you...

Ruud, if the UN won't decide anything in the next few days, the IDF will increas its actions. The main thing Israel is demanding is those Int armed forces of the UN get into southern Lebanon instead of the IDF, and in the same time have a cease-fire. I don't understand why your govt is refusing to accept this other then caring more about Hizbullah then you & your family. :(

thankyougrandma

Nice to hear from you RUUD, be safe, my best thoughts are going to all those who suffers from this stupid warmongers conflict, there's nothing else we can do than watch and hope for peace (big protest here in Montreal yesterday, around 15,000, you guys are not forgotten at all).

This conflict is horrible and i'm voiceless when it comes to those who support the use of power, it's just pure non-sense to me... anyway, be safe, RUUD and SHIRAZ (and all those who suffers from this)...

ruud

thanks thankyougrandma for writing,
and shiraz as well all you said is true, i still refuse to understand where my goverment officials got their education and ive concluded its non existent. they are just about as stubborn as hizballah is. but we'll see there so litlte to do, they have their motorcades and ride throiugh life knowing theyre noit going to get harmed while th epeople suffer. fuck governments.
anyways theres so little to do now but wait as usual and im guessing there wil not be a positive outcome now at leas tnot yet..it doesnt seem everyone is agreed on the terms...well i dont know..our lives are at stake, friends are depressed, familes confused and leaving. what can one do but take it in bit by bit..
hope youre safe as well..
take care all of you and hope to hear from you soon..
bye bye
ruud

shiraz

ruud wrote:

thanks thankyougrandma for writing,
and shiraz as well all you said is true, i still refuse to understand where my goverment officials got their education and ive concluded its non existent. they are just about as stubborn as hizballah is. but we'll see there so litlte to do, they have their motorcades and ride throiugh life knowing theyre noit going to get harmed while th epeople suffer. fuck governments.
anyways theres so little to do now but wait as usual and im guessing there wil not be a positive outcome now at leas tnot yet..it doesnt seem everyone is agreed on the terms...well i dont know..our lives are at stake, friends are depressed, familes confused and leaving. what can one do but take it in bit by bit..
hope youre safe as well..
take care all of you and hope to hear from you soon..
bye bye
ruud

If only the other members on this forum will notice the things you & me have to say... In the meantime the UN still acting VERY slow, and things are about to escalate only because these Int armed forces. This is insane, you and I are gonna suffer a lot more than we already have :(

How is everything going in Beirut? Did you hear about Nasralla asking for the arab residents of my home town Haifa to leave their homes cause he doesn't wants to hurt them, only the jews? Well, I guess it means I'll have more days to spend in the shelter...

farfromglorified

ruud wrote:

.....

Stay safe -- I hope tomorrow finds you well.

To ask another to put down his gun while maintaining your own right to hold yours is the paramount of hypocrisy. It is not up to Israel to stop fighting for your sake. It is up to Israel to stop fighting for their own sake. And the same goes for Hezbollah. Drop your weapons if you stand for peace. Clutch them if you stand for war. You cannot have both.

Be well.

shiraz

farfromglorified wrote:

Stay safe -- I hope tomorrow finds you well.

To ask another to put down his gun while maintaining your own right to hold yours is the paramount of hypocrisy. It is not up to Israel to stop fighting for your sake. It is up to Israel to stop fighting for their own sake. And the same goes for Hezbollah. Drop your weapons if you stand for peace. Clutch them if you stand for war. You cannot have both.

Be well.

No darling, read what he wrote - it is up to HIS govt, the Lebanese govt. They are refusing the immediat entry of Int armed forces INSTEAD of the IDF, only because Hizbullah doesn't like that Idea. Well, that idea is the key for a cease-fire. Ruud & I don't want to be in Hizbullah's hands, we need them under the control of the Lebanese army & the UN army.