How can I still be undecided?

sweetpotato

humanlight wrote:

The big day is tomorrow, and I have not idea what I am going to do!

Obama is my favorite pick, however, he is anti-coal, and I am from WV. This state lives off of coal. Most of my family would loose their jobs if Obama gets rid of the coal industary.

McCain...well, I just can't imagine another 4 years like the last 8. Enough said.

WTF do I do?

simple- vote for obama, and give a listen to what he has to say about coal. he's not "anti-coal" per se- he wants to invest in low-emissions coal plants, among other ideas for giving us energy independence and reducing greenhouse gasses. here's his whole energy plan:

http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/factsheet_energy_speech_080308.pdf



voting for mccain IS voting for more of the same as the last 8 years. if you don't want that, the choice is pretty clear.

jimed14

Gonzo1977 wrote:

Go to the source. Read up on the issues; straight from the horses mouth.

http://www.barackobama.com
http://www.johnmccain.com

Don't rely on the media and your family to filter the information and form your opinion for you.

It's never an easy choice; but that's what makes it so important.

to the OP ... seriously, read the "Issues" on these sites and go with how you feel.

Never ... I mean NEVER vote for someone because someone else told you to, whether it be family, friends, message board pundits .....

Believe me, if you do a little studying and make your own choice, you'll feel good about it.

iamica

I agree with everyone else. Who you vote for is none of your family's business, and it's not their choice either.

stuckinline

yes, go vote, it's your right

don't 'LET' your family decide your vote.

El_Kabong

b/c you know both corporate party options are shite and little will change. b/c you know settling for 'the best of 2 shitty options' is the only way to really waste your vote.

deep down you know that you can never expect any real change to happen if you keep supporting it's obstruction. things stay a cycle until you stop taking part.

don't underestimate the power behind your intention and if you just vote to keep someone else from winning instead of who you truly believe in then change will NEVER come. the reason politicians get away w/ being so ineffectual is b/c they know the voting majority feels as if their vote belongs to just these 2 corporate parties and they just need to be a little better than the other guy

take a stand. the election won't be decided by a sinlge vote in your state, will it?

Gonzo1977

El_Kabong wrote:

b/c you know both corporate party options are shite and little will change. b/c you know settling for 'the best of 2 shitty options' is the only way to really waste your vote.

deep down you know that you can never expect any real change to happen if you keep supporting it's obstruction. things stay a cycle until you stop taking part.

don't underestimate the power behind your intention and if you just vote to keep someone else from winning instead of who you truly believe in then change will NEVER come. the reason politicians get away w/ being so ineffectual is b/c they know the voting majority feels as if their vote belongs to just these 2 corporate parties and they just need to be a little better than the other guy

take a stand. the election won't be decided by a sinlge vote in your state, will it?

Yeah so sit back and do nothing about it. Great approach.

Your ass must really get sore from spending so much time on the fence.

Or do you blame that on Politician's too?

El_Kabong

Gonzo1977 wrote:

Yeah so sit back and do nothing about it. Great approach.

Your ass must really get sore from spending so much time on the fence.

Or do you blame that on Politician's too?

so if i vote for someone other than the 2 parties i am 'doing nothing'?? what would my vote for them be doing, exactly?

inmytree

Gonzo1977 wrote:

Yeah so sit back and do nothing about it. Great approach.

Your ass must really get sore from spending so much time on the fence.

Or do you blame that on Politician's too?

I've got to say this...Kabong is not a fence sitter at all...

he's been pretty open about that...

Gonzo1977

El_Kabong wrote:

so if i vote for someone other than the 2 parties i am 'doing nothing'?? what would my vote for them be doing, exactly?

I'm sorry but I can't except the argument that there is no difference between a McCain Presidency and an Obama Presidency. To me this is an utterly false and uninformed comment. It's show's an utter lack of understanding towards what these 2 candidates and parties represent if nominated.

Now I understand that there must obviously be some glaring difference between your 3rd Party option (if you have one) and McCain and Obama. But that being said...Do you honestly believe that if elected that your 3rd Party candidate would have a chance in hell of getting any of their ideas passed?

NO.

Want to know why? Because a 3rd Candidates have no representation in Government. What the fuck is the point of voting for someone, getting them elected, and then having them get each and every one of their ideas shot down because they have no party representation in government?

To me that is a waste of time.

And if guys like Ralph Nader, Ron Paul, and these other guys are running on something other than sheer EGO ans SPITE...which I doubt that they are...What the hell do they actually think they are going to acomplish if elected?

You see. I respect alot of these ideas coming from Nader, and Ron Paul and some of the other 3rd Party Candidates. But I believe they are doing nobody any good throwing their names on the ticket as a matter of spite.

If they really want to get serious, and if YOU really want to get serious CHANGE and have a viable 3rd PARTY some prominence in this country, then you are going to have to PLAY THE GAME. You are going to have to get 3rd Party Candidates nominated on the STATE and LOCAL level. Get some representation in government before you run a 3rd party for President.

Otherwise you are wasting your time, vote, and are just pissing in the wind.

sweetpotato

Gonzo1977 wrote:

Yeah so sit back and do nothing about it. Great approach.

Your ass must really get sore from spending so much time on the fence.

Or do you blame that on Politician's too?

i guess he's still singing the same old sad, tired song- "obama isn't progressive ENOUGH, therefore i will write in "nader" and let my vote go down the drain, again." it's sung to the tune of "mamas, don't let your babies grow up to be democrats," but slower.

beachdweller

humanlight wrote:

The big day is tomorrow, and I have not idea what I am going to do!

Obama is my favorite pick, however, he is anti-coal, and I am from WV. This state lives off of coal. Most of my family would loose their jobs if Obama gets rid of the coal industary.

McCain...well, I just can't imagine another 4 years like the last 8. Enough said.

WTF do I do?

he's not anti coal, he is against new traditional coal plants. He is for clean coal as one of the new technology energy options. We have to find a better way to use coal cleanly. We have more coal than Saudi Arabia has oil, it's going to be a part of our energy plan in the future.

El_Kabong

Gonzo1977 wrote:

I'm sorry but I can't except the argument that there is no difference between a McCain Presidency and an Obama Presidency. To me this is an utterly false and uninformed comment. It's show's an utter lack of understanding towards what these 2 candidates and parties represent if nominated.

does it show an utter lack of reading comprehension that i didn't make this claim of yours??

Gonzo1977 wrote:

Now I understand that there must obviously be some glaring difference between your 3rd Party option (if you have one) and McCain and Obama. But that being said...Do you honestly believe that if elected that your 3rd Party candidate would have a chance in hell of getting any of their ideas passed?

NO.

if he were elected that would mean the majority agreed w/ him. if they see congress obstructing their will then they would be held accountable at their election, this is all theoretical, of course, as we just go for the 'slightly better of the 2' card

Gonzo1977 wrote:

Want to know why? Because a 3rd Candidates have no representation in Government. What the fuck is the point of voting for someone, getting them elected, and then having them get each and every one of their ideas shot down because they have no party representation in government?

fuck party representation, it should be about ideas to move PEOPLE forward. you need to stop clinging to this team mentality

Gonzo1977 wrote:

To me that is a waste of time.

well, you're certainly entitled to your opinions and i know many share yours but not me. i think the only way to stop a cycle is to stop participating in it, it has to start w/ yourself.

if a girl on the side of the road in the rain needs a ride and i give it to her then i would be thought of as doing a good thing, if you believe in god i would have done good in his eyes. but, if i gave her the ride b/c i thought maybe she'd have sex w/ me or i thought i could get something from her am i still a nice guy? no, b/c of my intention. so if you pick the 'slightly better' of the 2 instead of someone you really believe in then your intention isn't truly for change, it's basically to be on the winning team for 4 years

Gonzo1977 wrote:

And if guys like Ralph Nader, Ron Paul, and these other guys are running on something other than sheer EGO ans SPITE...which I doubt that they are...What the hell do they actually think they are going to acomplish if elected?

you should visit their websites and you would know. i've gone to obama's and mccains several times to read theirs, what, exactly, are you even forming your opinion on?

Gonzo1977 wrote:

You see. I respect alot of these ideas coming from Nader, and Ron Paul and some of the other 3rd Party Candidates. But I believe they are doing nobody any good throwing their names on the ticket as a matter of spite.

wait, i thought they were only running on EGO and SPITE???? you respect that??? they are putting their names on the ticket to offer the people an actual choice. i'm sorry, but saying 'pick from these 2' is far from democracy. they put their names on the ticket b/c as long as we just let these 2 parties control the racket nothing will really ever get done other than foot dragging and favors for favors.

you were talking about representation, just allowing the democrats and republicans is far from representation

Gonzo1977 wrote:

If they really want to get serious, and if YOU really want to get serious CHANGE and have a viable 3rd PARTY some prominence in this country, then you are going to have to PLAY THE GAME. You are going to have to get 3rd Party Candidates nominated on the STATE and LOCAL level. Get some representation in government before you run a 3rd party for President.

Matt Gonzalez was elected on the local level and almost beat the democratic mayor in SF, Nader has been leading change for decades, they have played the game and done a lot

Gonzo1977 wrote:

Otherwise you are wasting your time, vote, and are just pissing in the wind.

and i see a vote for these 2 corporate parties and their candidates as the same.

El_Kabong

sweetpotato wrote:

i guess he's still singing the same old sad, tired song- "obama isn't progressive ENOUGH, therefore i will write in "nader" and let my vote go down the drain, again." it's sung to the tune of "mamas, don't let your babies grow up to be democrats," but slower.

some ppl never change...

actually, i didn't have to write him in, he was on the ballot in 45 states, including mine.

does it really bother you that much that i don't support obama or the building of more nuclear power plants and all the lies and politic as usual??

El_Kabong

beachdweller wrote:

he's not anti coal, he is against new traditional coal plants. He is for clean coal as one of the new technology energy options. We have to find a better way to use coal cleanly. We have more coal than Saudi Arabia has oil, it's going to be a part of our energy plan in the future.

actually on his site one of his energy solutions is coal to oil and clean coal

El_Kabong

El_Kabong wrote:

does it show an utter lack of reading comprehension that i didn't make this claim of yours??



if he were elected that would mean the majority agreed w/ him. if they see congress obstructing their will then they would be held accountable at their election, this is all theoretical, of course, as we just go for the 'slightly better of the 2' card




fuck party representation, it should be about ideas to move PEOPLE forward. you need to stop clinging to this team mentality



well, you're certainly entitled to your opinions and i know many share yours but not me. i think the only way to stop a cycle is to stop participating in it, it has to start w/ yourself.

if a girl on the side of the road in the rain needs a ride and i give it to her then i would be thought of as doing a good thing, if you believe in god i would have done good in his eyes. but, if i gave her the ride b/c i thought maybe she'd have sex w/ me or i thought i could get something from her am i still a nice guy? no, b/c of my intention. so if you pick the 'slightly better' of the 2 instead of someone you really believe in then your intention isn't truly for change, it's basically to be on the winning team for 4 years




you should visit their websites and you would know. i've gone to obama's and mccains several times to read theirs, what, exactly, are you even forming your opinion on?



wait, i thought they were only running on EGO and SPITE???? you respect that??? they are putting their names on the ticket to offer the people an actual choice. i'm sorry, but saying 'pick from these 2' is far from democracy. they put their names on the ticket b/c as long as we just let these 2 parties control the racket nothing will really ever get done other than foot dragging and favors for favors.

you were talking about representation, just allowing the democrats and republicans is far from representation



Matt Gonzalez was elected on the local level and almost beat the democratic mayor in SF, Nader has been leading change for decades, they have played the game and done a lot



and i see a vote for these 2 corporate parties and their candidates as the same.

nothing, gonzo1977????