this just makes me sick!!

baruchrbaruchr San Diego Posts: 85
edited January 2007 in A Moving Train
"The stage has been set for the largest massacre of wolves to occur in the lower 48 United States in decades. Unless we stop it, hundreds of wolves -- including mothers and pups -- could die." - Defenders of wildlife.org

We are almost there on actions!

http://action.defenders.org/site/PageServer?pagename=act_homepage
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  • Wolves are awesome.
  • baruchr wrote:
    "The stage has been set for the largest massacre of wolves to occur in the lower 48 United States in decades. Unless we stop it, hundreds of wolves -- including mothers and pups -- could die." - Defenders of wildlife.org

    We are almost there on actions!

    http://action.defenders.org/site/PageServer?pagename=act_homepage


    You might have to fill us in on some more info here? Why are they killing these animals, population control etc? Why is aerial gunning bad? I thought de-listing was a good thing?

    Convince me and I'll sign.
    www.myspace.com/olafvonmastadon
  • This proposal could allow the use of aerial gunning and other lethal control methods to kill as many as two-thirds of the wolves in Wyoming and as many as 54 of Idaho’s 65 wolf packs!

    :eek: That's not nice :( But I don't understand why they're killing all these wolves...?
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    This proposal could allow the use of aerial gunning and other lethal control methods to kill as many as two-thirds of the wolves in Wyoming and as many as 54 of Idaho’s 65 wolf packs!

    :eek: That's not nice :( But I don't understand why they're killing all these wolves...?
    yea I dont understand either. why???? why??
  • This proposal could allow the use of aerial gunning and other lethal control methods to kill as many as two-thirds of the wolves in Wyoming and as many as 54 of Idaho’s 65 wolf packs!

    :eek: That's not nice :( But I don't understand why they're killing all these wolves...?
    They're probably a threat to national security.
  • godpt3godpt3 Posts: 1,020
    jlew24asu wrote:
    yea I dont understand either. why???? why??

    because wolves like to munch on things like cattle and sheep
    "If all those sweet, young things were laid end to end, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised."
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  • godpt3 wrote:
    because wolves like to munch on things like cattle and sheep

    So do I.
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    godpt3 wrote:
    because wolves like to munch on things like cattle and sheep
    hell so do I. I eat cattle 3 times a week. havent tried sheep though. I think I might
  • Solat13Solat13 Posts: 6,996
    Wolf rally draws a crowd
    By Rocky Barker - Idaho Statesman

    Idaho Gov. Butch Otter can't wait for the day when Idaho hunters can once again legally hunt wolves.

    "I'm going to bid for the first ticket to shoot a wolf," Otter said.

    His remark brought loud cheers from more than 300 hunters gathered Thursday at the Capitol to rally for more controls on the controversial predator. Like a long line of Idaho politicians before him, Otter criticized the federal government for reintroducing wolves in 1995 over the state's objections.

    The hunters say wolves are killing all the elk and deer — an assertion Otter made Monday in his State of the State address. Otter and ranchers have complained for more than a decade that the skyrocketing wolf population has killed livestock and increased the cost of their business.

    "We told them what would happen," Otter said.

    Within weeks, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service is expected to propose removing wolves from the endangered species list in Idaho and Montana.

    When that happens, the state, not the federal government, will be responsible for managing the predators, and Otter and the Idaho Legislature, both on record as preferring the wolves be removed from the state, will no longer be able to blame the federal government when wolves cause problems.

    Idaho leaders will have the job of balancing the interests of ranchers, hunters and wolf enthusiasts statewide and internationally. The Idaho Department of Fish and Game, which often has been criticized by lawmakers and sportsmen, will handle the day-to-day management.

    "I trust them more than the federal government," said Larry Goldie, a Boise telecommunications company owner and avid hunter.

    Goldie and most of the hunters at the rally, which was sponsored by the statewide Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife, say their hunting success has dropped since wolves were brought in from Canada in 1995 and 1996.

    "We used to see several elk a day and hear a lot of elk bugling," Goldie said. "Last year, I did not see a single elk or hear a single elk bugle."

    Despite similar stories from dozens of hunters, one of Idaho's top elk experts said Thursday the state's elk population is healthy. Where elk numbers have dropped, habitat quality has deteriorated, said Jim Peek a University of Idaho wildlife management professor emeritus.

    "There is very little evidence that the presence of wolves in Idaho has caused a decline of elk anywhere, especially in Central Idaho and up in the Clearwater area," Peek said.

    Peek was made available to reporters in a conference call sponsored by Defenders of Wildlife, a national environmental group that opposes delisting wolves.

    Suzanne Stone, its Rocky Mountain representative in Boise, said she fears Idaho's leaders will try to dramatically cut the current population of 650 wolves in 70 packs back to near the 15-pack level set as the recovery goal by the state's plan and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service.

    But Peek said he doubted state officials could successfully reduce the wolf population that dramatically, even if they use helicopter gunners and saturation snare traps, the most effective tools. Such a campaign would be very expensive, he said.

    And wolves become even more prolific in the face of heavy killing. "Wolves are very resilient once established," Peek said.

    He favors delisting, as do most of the hunters at the rally and even some environmental groups like the Idaho Conservation League. So do livestock groups like the Idaho Cattle Association and the Idaho Woolgrowers, who seek even more liberal rules for killing wolves that harass and kill livestock.

    But there remain people who don't want any wolves killed, and there are Idahoans who still want them eliminated.

    Ron Gillett, a former Stanley outfitter, said earlier this month he would begin circulating petitions calling for the state to end all wolf recovery efforts and to remove "all wolves reintroduced into Idaho."

    Ralph Maughan, a wolf advocate from Pocatello who is frustrated with the anti-wolf attitudes of Idaho leaders like Otter, wants Idahoans to vote on the issue even if it's Gillett's initiative.

    "I'd be inclined to sign it and vote against it," Maughan said. "It would be an opportunity for Idahoans, rather than politicians, to decide the issue."

    But if Gillett's initiative passes and becomes law, the federal government would likely return the wolf to threatened or endangered status, exactly what Maughan wants for now.

    Peek predicted that many Idahoans would step forward to oppose helicopter gunning or similar measures. He hopes calmer voices prevail in the wolf management debate. "I think there is a measure of human arrogance on this whole thing," Peek said. "I think we have to understand there are natural forces out there that are controlling these things."
    - Busted down the pretext
    - 8/28/98
    - 9/2/00
    - 4/28/03, 5/3/03, 7/3/03, 7/5/03, 7/6/03, 7/9/03, 7/11/03, 7/12/03, 7/14/03
    - 9/28/04, 9/29/04, 10/1/04, 10/2/04
    - 9/11/05, 9/12/05, 9/13/05, 9/30/05, 10/1/05, 10/3/05
    - 5/12/06, 5/13/06, 5/27/06, 5/28/06, 5/30/06, 6/1/06, 6/3/06, 6/23/06, 7/22/06, 7/23/06, 12/2/06, 12/9/06
    - 8/2/07, 8/5/07
    - 6/19/08, 6/20/08, 6/22/08, 6/24/08, 6/25/08, 6/27/08, 6/28/08, 6/30/08, 7/1/08
    - 8/23/09, 8/24/09, 9/21/09, 9/22/09, 10/27/09, 10/28/09, 10/30/09, 10/31/09
    - 5/15/10, 5/17/10, 5/18/10, 5/20/10, 5/21/10, 10/23/10, 10/24/10
    - 9/11/11, 9/12/11
    - 10/18/13, 10/21/13, 10/22/13, 11/30/13, 12/4/13
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    thanks for the article. I dont live anyone near a wolf so I'll let them figure it out. but I do think wolves are cool.
  • onelongsongonelongsong Posts: 3,517
    baruchr wrote:
    "The stage has been set for the largest massacre of wolves to occur in the lower 48 United States in decades. Unless we stop it, hundreds of wolves -- including mothers and pups -- could die." - Defenders of wildlife.org

    We are almost there on actions!

    http://action.defenders.org/site/PageServer?pagename=act_homepage

    wolves are protected here. several states have been re-introducing wolves to wilderness areas to re-balance nature. sounds like another greanie scare tactic.
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    so when the wolves are reintroduced and nature is 're-balanced' what is the criteria for maintaining a manageable wolf population. how many kids do they have to eat before it's decided repopulation of the wolves wasn't perhaps a good idea?
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  • CollinCollin Posts: 4,931
    wolves are protected here. several states have been re-introducing wolves to wilderness areas to re-balance nature. sounds like another greanie scare tactic.

    I'm not entirely sure what you are saying, could you elaborate?
    THANK YOU, LOSTDAWG!


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  • onelongsongonelongsong Posts: 3,517
    godpt3 wrote:
    because wolves like to munch on things like cattle and sheep

    that's part of doing business. you write it off as mortality and take the tax deduction. running cattle and sheep on the land uses the deer and elks natural food and without a preditor; the entire population will starve. this means more hunters are needed to thin the population.
  • DOSWDOSW Posts: 2,014
    baruchr wrote:
    "The stage has been set for the largest massacre of wolves to occur in the lower 48 United States in decades. Unless we stop it, hundreds of wolves -- including mothers and pups -- could die." - Defenders of wildlife.org

    We are almost there on actions!

    http://action.defenders.org/site/PageServer?pagename=act_homepage

    I'm in. If I can do anything to save (or at least prolong the life of) these wolves, I'll do it.
    It's a town full of losers and I'm pulling out of here to win
  • know1know1 Posts: 6,794
    godpt3 wrote:
    because wolves like to munch on things like cattle and sheep

    So it's OK to kill cattle and sheep, but not wolves?
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    Every time someone tries to "balance" nature by introducing new species, they fuck shit up. The reality is animal populations oscillate and won't maintain a constant population.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • onelongsongonelongsong Posts: 3,517
    know1 wrote:
    So it's OK to kill cattle and sheep, but not wolves?

    when you put cattle and sheep in the wolves habitat; yes; it's ok.
  • know1know1 Posts: 6,794
    when you put cattle and sheep in the wolves habitat; yes; it's ok.

    So if people try to live in the wolves habitat, would it be OK to kill them (the people)?
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • onelongsongonelongsong Posts: 3,517
    know1 wrote:
    So if people try to live in the wolves habitat, would it be OK to kill them (the people)?

    yes; and if you walked into a lions den; it would be ok for the lion to kill you. YOU are the invader. i cohabitate with a large mountain lion population. sure we lose cattle; but we brought the cattle into the lions habitat. what do you expect?
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    when you put cattle and sheep in the wolves habitat; yes; it's ok.
    ...
    Then the solution seems real simple... don't put cattle and sheep in wolves habitats.
    ...
    I see a similar thing here in Southern Cal... people complain about mountain lions after they build their fucking houses in mountain lion country. The answer is real simple... don't build your house where mountain lions live. There are plenty of houses already... whadda say we fix up the run down neighborhoods instead of moving to a place where bears and pumas will eat your toddlers?
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    Hail, Hail!!!
  • know1know1 Posts: 6,794
    well here's where we run into the real problem. what is wild anymore? can we as humans move into the forest and wipe out all that makes it the forest, just so we can live a life free of worry and care? do we owe anything to the natural world into which we are intruding?

    how would you feel if someone wiped out your house so they could live there? and then came after you with a gun?

    i think that if people are moving into wild places then they should expect some encounters with wild animals. we should try to control animals that have a history of undesirable encounters with humans, but we should leave the animals alone if they are not harming anyone.

    Umm...the wolves would kill you if they got the chance. I'm taking a roundabout way to make a point here. People seem all upset that the wolves would be killed, but the reason they are being killed is because THEY KILL sheep, etc. So which is right - killing wolves or killing sheep?
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • know1know1 Posts: 6,794
    you don't know much about wolves, do you?

    I know a bit. I know they are shy and do not make it a point to hunt down people. But....in the dead of winter when food is scarce, if you happen to be in their territory, you might be at risk.

    That wasn't my point, anyway. See the addition to my post above.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • CollinCollin Posts: 4,931
    know1 wrote:
    People seem all upset that the wolves would be killed, but the reason they are being killed is because THEY KILL sheep, etc. So which is right - killing wolves or killing sheep?

    Wolves killing sheep or man killing wolves because he needs his sheep alive so he can kill them?
    THANK YOU, LOSTDAWG!


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  • know1know1 Posts: 6,794
    Collin wrote:
    Wolves killing sheep or man killing wolves because he needs his sheep alive so he can kill them?

    But we kill a lot more sheep in this country than we do wolves, so why are we valuing the life of a wolf over that of a sheep?
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • know1know1 Posts: 6,794
    so let's just rid the world of any risk to humans.

    fuck me.

    You're misunderstanding me. I'm on your side with us. I'm arguing from a different perspective to try and point out the faults of that side.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    Collin wrote:
    Wolves killing sheep or man killing wolves because he needs his sheep alive so he can kill them?
    ...
    And there you have it... think of the wolves as a middle man. They kill 'em, you eat 'em.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • Solat13Solat13 Posts: 6,996
    i could seriously give a shit about a few sheep or a few cattle getting killed by wolves. the sheep and cattle are not indigenous, the wolves are.

    Actually the wolves in question were killed off in the 1920's. In 1995 wolves were transported down from Canada and reintroduced into the region and they have populated much quicker than anticipated which is why the idea of hunting them has come into question.

    So theoretically wolves are indigenous to the Idaho wilderness, but those wolves had been killed off so farmers and ranchers who for generations didn't have to worry about wolves now have to worry about them.
    - Busted down the pretext
    - 8/28/98
    - 9/2/00
    - 4/28/03, 5/3/03, 7/3/03, 7/5/03, 7/6/03, 7/9/03, 7/11/03, 7/12/03, 7/14/03
    - 9/28/04, 9/29/04, 10/1/04, 10/2/04
    - 9/11/05, 9/12/05, 9/13/05, 9/30/05, 10/1/05, 10/3/05
    - 5/12/06, 5/13/06, 5/27/06, 5/28/06, 5/30/06, 6/1/06, 6/3/06, 6/23/06, 7/22/06, 7/23/06, 12/2/06, 12/9/06
    - 8/2/07, 8/5/07
    - 6/19/08, 6/20/08, 6/22/08, 6/24/08, 6/25/08, 6/27/08, 6/28/08, 6/30/08, 7/1/08
    - 8/23/09, 8/24/09, 9/21/09, 9/22/09, 10/27/09, 10/28/09, 10/30/09, 10/31/09
    - 5/15/10, 5/17/10, 5/18/10, 5/20/10, 5/21/10, 10/23/10, 10/24/10
    - 9/11/11, 9/12/11
    - 10/18/13, 10/21/13, 10/22/13, 11/30/13, 12/4/13
  • CollinCollin Posts: 4,931
    know1 wrote:
    But we kill a lot more sheep in this country than we do wolves, so why are we valuing the life of a wolf over that of a sheep?

    Are you going to eat wolves' meat? Shave it and use it's fur as a coat? Breed them like cattle?
    THANK YOU, LOSTDAWG!


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