Waterboarding - Torture or Not?

ledvedderman

810wmb wrote:

so, are you saying that you believe that he wasn't involved?

Pretty sure if you read it yourself you can see that's not what he's saying.

810wmb

ledvedderman wrote:

Pretty sure if you read it yourself you can see that's not what he's saying.

i did read it, why do you think i asked the question?

blackredyellow

810wmb wrote:

so, are you saying that you believe that he wasn't involved?

No, I'm not saying that. I actually do think that he was involved. But just because someone confesses to something after a long interrogation where torture was involved, doesn't make it true.

Besides the fact with him, he was never going to be released anyway, so why not take the blame for everything to boost his own image or to just take some heat off of other terrorists who are still free.

I guarantee that if any of us were subjected to what he was put through, that we would admit to just about anything.

Ridin The Wave

blackredyellow wrote:

he was never going to be released anyway, so why not take the blame for everything to boost his own image or to just take some heat off of other terrorists who are still free.

I totally agree with this statement.

But, even if the above wasn't/isn't the case, the man from 9/11 was subjected to many different techniques, as was already stated - there is no way to show which one was successful.

And even if what he said was true and it was 100% because of the waterboarding, that does not a) make it right and b) mean it will work everytime!

mammasan

810wmb wrote:

it worked with the 9-11 dude, so i guess you guys that say it doesn't work are wrong

Ok it worked for this one individual, but for the most part information obtain through torture is highly unreliable. Second even if it was reliable it is still wrong. We are supposed to be this great democracy. Protectors of justice and liberty. We are supposed to lead by example and the example we are senting is jusr plain wrong. We are going against every principle this country was founded apon and once we have destroyed those principles what is there really left to defend. By comminting these acts we are lowering ourselves to the terrorists standards and at that point we are no better then they are and they basically won.

gimmesometruth27

absolutely it is torture.

if you don't believe it, why don't you volunteer to lie down on a board and let me pour water down your throat until you nearly drown.

any takers??




i didn't think so.

Cosmo

810wmb wrote:

yr right - they just cut our heads off, drag our dead bodies through the street naked, ect.

we are soooooooooooo inhumane

...
You basically condone and stamp their acts with your approval when you accept that acting the same way as they do is the norm.

hrd2imgn

this is a sticky situation.

I think to get the bad guys any means should be used if it saves lives. I know innocents will get it from time to time, but that is something we have to risk to prevent more 9/11's.

This isn't about us being better than them morally, they will cut your fucking head off in a heart beat so fuck sympathy for these bastards. If it saves one life torturing one of these fuckers I am all for it. LLets not play the spin game either and say if it was your loved one tortured etc either, get a better argument.

think of it this way, if you had a child or relative or friend,and this dude had info that will or could lead to their death but won't spill the beans you can't seriously tell me you wouldn't do ANYTHING to get the info. I'd find that hard to believe. You would allow the chance of that person dying for moral athority.....We(the US/"coalition") are fighting a mindset that does not care about dying, would not hesitate to torture/mainme/murder you...I say fuck moral high ground and do whatever we need to to save our citizens' lives. If that makes us now somehow no better than them you are IMHO way off.

If they are a citizen of the country interrogating them they should however have all the right afforded to them. If not a citezen all betts are off.

hrd2imgn

Cosmo wrote:

...
right - they just cut our heads off, drag our dead bodies through the street naked, ect

you forgot burning their bodies and then hanging their charred reamins off buildings.

FUCK ALL THE TERRORIST BASTARDS they would not bat an eyelash doing any of this to you!

These twisted fuckers fly planes full of people into buildings full of people hoping the buildings will collapse. They go into markets and blow up innocent people -women and children what they claim we do to them.

Fuck them

Cosmo

hrd2imgn wrote:

right - they just cut our heads off, drag our dead bodies through the street naked, ect

you forgot burning their bodies and then hanging their charred reamins off buildings.

FUCK ALL THE TERRORIST BASTARDS they would not bat an eyelash doing any of this to you!

...
Guess again. Those were not 'Terrorists' who did that. It was the 'Poor oppressed Iraqis that we want to liberate and spread democracy all over'.

sapperskunk

ledvedderman wrote:

I bet if you were waterboarded you'd admit to killing Lincoln if it meant they'd quit TORTURING you.

I got a buddy who got water boarded. He said it blew, but it sure beats getting the shit beat out of you instead... or worse.

Plus he didn't spill his guts or provide any relevant info whatsoever. So maybe you can't assume to get a false confession every time.

Cosmo

sapperskunk wrote:

I got a buddy who got water boarded. He said it blew, but it sure beats getting the shit beat out of you instead... or worse.

Plus he didn't spill his guts or provide any relevant info whatsoever. So maybe you can't assume to get a false confession every time.

...
Did your buddy get busted for planting an I.E.D?

810wmb

Cosmo wrote:

...
Did your buddy get busted for planting an I.E.D?

gee stupid, you know our guys get that done to them in training...i posted a while back about it...i guess you were too busy putting up your "rising sun" flag to read it

Cosmo

810wmb wrote:

gee stupid, you know our guys get that done to them in training...i posted a while back about it...i guess you were too busy putting up your "rising sun" flag to read it

...
So... he was getting water boarded by his own guys... are you saying they treat these suspected terrorists with the same restraint as members of our own military?
We really are a kinder/gentler military.

810wmb

Cosmo wrote:

...
So... he was getting water boarded by his own guys... are you saying they treat these suspected terrorists with the same restraint as members of our own military?
We really are a kinder/gentler military.

that's right

we wanted to try to subject our guys to the the same type of interrogation methods they would have in the field.

we had to go to waterboarding because cutting their heads off really wasn't a training option

sapperskunk

Here's some info on it, It's pretty damn intense, depending on what branch you go with. I've heard some pretty scary stories though.


http://www.training.sfahq.com/survival_training.htm

azwyldcats

Yes. But why not? They torture ours. It is only fair.

Cosmo

810wmb wrote:

that's right

we wanted to try to subject our guys to the the same type of interrogation methods they would have in the field.

we had to go to waterboarding because cutting their heads off really wasn't a training option

...
Isn't waterboarding a method WE employ? Like you said... they chop off heads... they don't waterboard.
So... this must be for our military people who defect to the terrorist's side so they do not devulge any terrorist information to our (their former) military Interrogators.. right?
....
And if our guys don't give up valuable information during the water boarding sessions... really, how effective can water boarding be?

Songburst

Nice Guy Eddie: If you fucking beat this prick long enough, he'll tell you he started the goddamn Chicago fire, now that don't necessarily make it fucking so.

sapperskunk

Cosmo wrote:

...
Isn't waterboarding a method WE employ? Like you said... they chop off heads... they don't waterboard.
So... this must be for our military people who defect to the terrorist's side so they do not devulge any terrorist information to our (their former) military Interrogators.. right?
....
And if our guys don't give up valuable information during the water boarding sessions... really, how effective can water boarding be?

No, MY buddy didn't give up his info. He apparently was in a minority in that respect. Other guys went down and spilt the beans through other techniques like stress positions or my favorite, stripping you completely naked, blindfolded and restrained and having some girl walk in and make fun of your dick. HILLARIOUS! Guys get so flustered they lose their cool and have complete meltdowns.