Waterboarding - Torture or Not?

Ridin The Wave

I haven't seen any threads on this, so I figured I'd post this link to get some thoughts.

http://current.com/items/86417301_kaj_larsen_goes_waterboarding

mammasan

It is torture and the fact that our country has used it is sickening.

Ridin The Wave

I totally agree. I don't know how anyone could argue that torture only exists when there is organ failure involved. There are SO SO SO many forms of torture that don't involve organ failure, this being one of them!

steve_inhiding

Hello everyone,

Long time reader, third or forth time poster.

For some reason this post (or more specifically the accompaning video) really disturbed me. Anyone group that uses this "interrigation technique" is both a sick fucking organisation, and a stupid one (I'd admit anything under waterboarding because I'm terribly scared of pain/discomfort). I can't imagine the thought process that the average american citizen goes through every day in regards to the war on terror, but I pray, even as an atheist, that people are smart enough to realise that this can only lead to disinformation and hatred which is counteractive to the worthy cause all people of reasonable mind are fighting.

As apolitically as possible, I hope most everybody on the board will agree. Despite the bottle or 2 of wine I've had. : )

Cheers,
Steve

even flow?

If it gets those terrorists to talk I would say it is worth the while to torture em anyway you can. How can we win this war on terror if we don't get information out of these sicks fuc*s, who'd be willing to blow themselves up at the drop of an American dime because they hate our freedom and the way we live. If they could only see that our meddling in their countries is for the benefit of the people living there and the one's who sell them out, this world would be a more peaceful place. And I wouldn't have to watch this war updates interupt my American Idol and Survivor shows. If they don't like torture maybe we should make the place into a glass parking lot.


edit: Ooops signed in under the wrong name.

bryn_cmbs

It is. Period.

steve_inhiding

I just can't see how this treatment of people can yield any useful information. C'mon, anyone would admit to terrorism if they thought the only way to live (ie, not drown) was to tell the interrigators what they wanted to hear. Surely this technique will only cloud any legitimate information that may be coming through, whether that be gathered with torture or not.

Also, this is hardly doing to west's reputation any good. Let's not pretend that we're the only side that know.

Cheers
Steve

Pearl Jam and toast

Yes. Duh. Is it cruel? yes.. unusual?.. definetly.

There isn't even a debate here, this is the bush administration not giving a shit about law.

steve inhiding wrote:

I just can't see how this treatment of people can yield any useful information.

It can't.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

Shocking that politicians (of all people) seem to have forgotten it's all largely in part about maintaining impeccable public image. Wanting to play the big bad guy now to show the terrorists (and the world) who's the boss. Show them who the real tough guys are....don't mess with us because we're not fooling around! We're far worse than your worst nightmares...ever.. mr. terrorist. and ready to bring it on you anytime. Wait....I'm kinda confused who the bad guy is again.

maybe not so great a plan..

steve_inhiding

Pearl Jam and toast wrote:

There isn't even a debate here, this is the bush administration not giving a shit about law.
quote]

I don't fully agree. I Can't be sure that Bush & co are evil and tortuous (sic) for the sake of it. I have a strange feeling that they think they're doing the right thing by us (freedom lovers) and that they think they are right. Obviously this doesn't make it so, but to simply label them as evil is as bad as them labeling Iraq, Iran, Bin Laden, etc as evil.

I see the above grouping as a bunch of whackos who thinks they're the only people who could possible know what's right.....

of course you could put me in the above group also...

810wmb

it worked with the 9-11 dude, so i guess you guys that say it doesn't work are wrong

ledvedderman

810wmb wrote:

it worked with the 9-11 dude, so i guess you guys that say it doesn't work are wrong

I bet if you were waterboarded you'd admit to killing Lincoln if it meant they'd quit TORTURING you.

810wmb

ledvedderman wrote:

I bet if you were waterboarded you'd admit to killing Lincoln if it meant they'd quit TORTURING you.

maybe, maybe not

doesn't change the FACT that it has worked

steve_inhiding

810wmb wrote:

maybe, maybe not

doesn't change the FACT that it has worked

But that's not a fact, is it?

it just means someone has said something that stops others from putting them through unbearable suffering.

All this really proves is that the pain is so unbearable than they'll give the other side (in this case the US and the western allies) any information the they want, whether true or not.

Torture and the results it gathers are useless and destructive.

anotherclone

You know how I look at waterboarding? If someone was doing it to one of our boys or girls overseas, would WE call it torture? You bet your sweet ass we would.

810wmb

steve_inhiding wrote:

But that's not a fact, is it?

it just means someone has said something that stops others from putting them through unbearable suffering.

All this really proves is that the pain is so unbearable than they'll give the other side (in this case the US and the western allies) any information the they want, whether true or not.

Torture and the results it gathers are useless and destructive.

but the info WAS TRUE so it did work

810wmb

anotherclone wrote:

You know how I look at waterboarding? If someone was doing it to one of our boys or girls overseas, would WE call it torture? You bet your sweet ass we would.

yr right - they just cut our heads off, drag our dead bodies through the street naked, ect.

we are soooooooooooo inhumane

Pearl Jam and toast

810wmb wrote:

maybe, maybe not

doesn't change the FACT that it has worked

That's not a fact. In fact, anyone on this planet with knowledge about torture will tell you that it doesn't work. Sure you'll get someone to confess to something but that doesn't mean the method works at all.

anotherclone

810wmb wrote:

yr right - they just cut our heads off, drag our dead bodies through the street naked, ect.

we are soooooooooooo inhumane

HUH? Maybe its the hangover I'm suffering with today but ya' lost me here sailor.

blackredyellow

810wmb wrote:

maybe, maybe not

doesn't change the FACT that it has worked

It's NOT a fact....

here are the facts:

1) At one point during days of interrogation he was water-boarded

2) After a long interrogation he admitted to involvement in 9/11, and about 147 other things.


What we don't know, is if any of his admissions were true, or if it was water boarding or other questions, techniques or whatever that made him talk.

810wmb

blackredyellow wrote:

It's NOT a fact....

here are the facts:

1) At one point during days of interrogation he was water-boarded

2) After a long interrogation he admitted to involvement in 9/11, and about 147 other things.


What we don't know, is if any of his admissions were true, or if it was water boarding or other questions, techniques or whatever that made him talk.

so, are you saying that you believe that he wasn't involved?