The PRoblem of Feminism & A Problematic Feminist
danika_bookworm
Posts: 162
I've been in love with feminism... Notice the past tense "been"... Because I've lost a little admiration for the FEminist Theory when I finished a feminist book review of Gina Apostol's "Bibliolepsy".
Anyway, what is really the AIM or GOAL of Feminism? Choose:
a. Complete Matriarchy (full domination over the males of ANY specie)
b. A Separate & Exclusive All-Female Society (There exists a all-male society that the females only meet for reproduction, sexual pleasure only occurs between or among people of the same sex)
c. An All-Female World (where males are killed off once their healthy sperm are put in banks)
d. Cooperation & Co-existence of Females & MAles (Is this possible?)
Anyway, what is really the AIM or GOAL of Feminism? Choose:
a. Complete Matriarchy (full domination over the males of ANY specie)
b. A Separate & Exclusive All-Female Society (There exists a all-male society that the females only meet for reproduction, sexual pleasure only occurs between or among people of the same sex)
c. An All-Female World (where males are killed off once their healthy sperm are put in banks)
d. Cooperation & Co-existence of Females & MAles (Is this possible?)
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Checked your hands and studied the lines
Have you the belief that the road ahead, ascends off into the light?
Seems that needlessly it's getting harder
To find an approach and a way to live
Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?
Anti-theorists do, however, argue (for me, conclusively), that theorists tend to see feminist psychology as abstract, and outside of the specific socio-economic and historical contexts that define women's experiences of oppression or self-empowerment: theorists lose a sense of committed social urgency, in their academic endeavours. I think what's happened is that, although feminist thinkers such as Toril Moi have tried to bridge this kind of materialist criticism with theory, feminist thinkers are still engaged in debate as to what the best stance for emancipation is: outside, or inside, theory. The same thing's happening in post-colonial criticism, really, where some thinkers feel that to use western theory to seek the goal of freedom from colonial hegemony, is to shoot oneself in the foot. Any group which seeks equality struggles with how to voice their ideology and be heard, without being assimilated into the dominant viewpoint, and controlled.
a through c are really variants of a crude notion of gynocratic separatism, and d is a little vague. I think that central to much feminist thinking is an idea of women being independent, and having the freedom to separate themselves from men and not be exploited by male power structures, such as class, education or sexual destiny: what Virginia Woolf tentatively metaphorised as "A Room of One's Own". The problem many feminists face is reconciling this idea of separateness with being able to break down conventional structures of gender difference, and co-exist with males in a redefined society. If you set yourselves apart, you ironically reinforce these structures, as we see in stereotypes portraying militant feminists as "loony lesbians". If a militant feminist uses the neologism "Wimmn" instead of women, to write out the word men, they're only changing the signifier and not the signified of historical oppression:they signal their distance from men, but they also ensure their marginalisation from the dominant linguistic codes used to characterise society, rather than managing to achieve empowerment, within it. My point is that many feminists realise that a happy medium between co-existence and separateness is necessary.
it doesn't matter what you write it always gets me thinking.
thanks so much.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
to answer the original question. I feel the answer i'm supposed to pick is D, but i think A rings true at times as well.
cause all feminists secretly want to be men.
honestly who knows what feminists want. i can't say cause i'm not a feminist.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I was involved in academia as an English major and hated the separatism. I once told a female professor that men and women thought differently because our brains are wired differently. I thought she was gonna throw me out of the window.
My senior thesis was entitled Feminist Utopian Novels. Usually the initial reaction to that title was "what do you do with all the men?" That got me thinking. Why would that title call up getting rid of men? I like men! Not all of them, but I prefer them when it comes to love. I don't want to fall in love with myself, I want to fall in love with someone else. I'm not a lesbian just because I use the word feminist! I refuse to pump my own gas and let my husband do it. Does that make me less of a feminist?
To me, it's all about equality. I don't want to be a man; I just want to be paid the same wage that a man would earn doing my job. I like the differences between men and women.
The "original" feminist movement did demean motherhood (the full monsterhood) and that was wrong. We as women cannot separate ourselves from our basic biology. We can choose to be with another woman, but that choice doesn't automatically make us sterile. Actually, the "trapped" women of the pre-feminist movement had it much better. At least they knew their role. Now there are so many options--it's not surprising that a lot of women are confused. I myself lead a pretty "unfeminist" life. My husband is the "breadwinner"; I pay my own bills, well because they're mine. I kept my own name because it's mine. I am my own woman, am a feminist, and love my husband.
The stridency of the original movement has done much to splinter the notion of feminism; maybe that's a good thing? Ideas need to grow and change with the times and feminism to me is a constantly-evolving notion.
Question is, what is deemed "equal" in the points of view of both men & women? I mean, feminists may at some point in the future achieve the equality they're aming for without alienating men but there is a danger that men may think that THEY are oppressed.
Or could she accept the fact that she carried the baby for nine months and decided to go back to work and the husband stay at home to be the mom that her ego would stay in check?
Just curious.
Why not? I could never leave my baby. I don't have any babies, but I know myself well enough to know that I would sacrifice my income for time spent with my child. I'm doing something similar now: I'm a stay at home daughter. It has nothing to do with ego. Work never defined me.
Well, it's important to think of this on a global scale, and not just in western terms. In a society where women are repressed on theocratic grounds, any meagre advancement by women, in terms of socio-economic or sexual liberation, might be seen by men as a threat to their values and way of life. Given the problematical nature of cultural relativism, it would be difficult, if not impossible, to propose something like an Aristotelian mean, where there's a consensus on where this elusive and not clearly pinpointed idea of "equality" might fall, on a scale of 0 to 10 of extremes, between male or female social control.
In short, I don't know, but the question is worth pursuing.
Well, may final thesis in college questioned the separatism. And my professor thought it was "controversial."
I just read a satirical nover about a MATRIARCHAL society, about how the men started a masculinist movement because they were being oppressed by women. I tell my boyfriend about it, and when I ask him to do something, he would remind me about the book, about how the author (a woman) described women as the "stronger sex." That I should make full use of my muscles. I just get lazy. Everybody, male or female, get lazy, right?
According to the satirical novel: "The masculinist movement is an econimical movement to equality of the classes." We can see in the lower rungs of our society that it is the women who suffer the blow of poverty the most.
Well said! Relate to the analogy: A woman is raped and the rapist defends himself by saying that he was aroused because she wore a short skirts. And the rape happened when almost every woman wears a short skirt.
You can't really answer this because there are many different types of feminism. The basis of 'feminism' is social, political, and economic equality, but there are many different groups of feminism off of that.
cross the river to the eastside
I just read the satire "Egalia's Daughters". It has told a story of a matriarchy that exploits men. I laughed throught the first few chapter because it seemed to tell about how would men feel if their penises had to be enclosed in a "peho" (like a bra to our breasts). But nearing the end, it became a bit tragic, and reflective of the ensuing patriarchy. The ending was that the main character (a man) wrote a satirical novel depicting a patriarchy. The reviewers, mostly women, tended to say: "A patriarchal society? That's unthinkable, impossible! All life on earth will perish if such a society exists!"
Oh, that's what I hate about some feminists. I have a friend, and he's dating this wpman who already has a kid. HIs mom (incidentally my professor and is one of the movers of feminism in our local literature) doesn't like her, because she had an "accident" that made her pregnant. Aren't we women supposed to work together, despite the mistakes we've made in the past?
I'm the first one, and a friend playfully calls me "feminista nga aktibista" (feminist-activist)
A little from column A, a little from column D. Depends on the feminist you're talking to.
And regarding the "is this possible?" question.....of course.
Damn, A through C would make a great futuristic, Sci-Fi Thriller, would it not?
The year is 3010.
Imagine a world where Females rule social and political policy and Males are prohibited from existing beyond their 18th birthdate.
A world where Males are utilized, through artificial methods, soley for reproduction. At which point (their 18th birthday) they are destroyed.
But one man fights against the Matriarchy. One man inspires, recruits, gathers and creates a resistance. One man who can lead all men ........
Even when temporarily distracted by old DVDs of NFL Football footage and videos of " Big Boobies In Your Face"; this man is determined to lead all men .......to Freedom! This man is........... Van Beagel! Cute as a puppy, but stronger than a bear.....Van Beagel!
While the Females themselves, become distracted watching old syndicated reruns of Oprah and The View; the resistance plans their attacks.
In Space, No One Can Hear You Bitch........
Planet Of The Dames
In the Theaters July 2010
Here's what I suggest you read: "Egalia's Daughters" by Berg Bratenbergg. It's about a matriarchal society where men groom their beards and take the baby to his wife's office to be breastfed (while she works). Where women in offices get to playfully slap the little laddie secretaries' butts. It's an old book, and it was published in Seattle.
Women are the same as men, where they have it good they don't want equality. Where they get the short end of the deal the want equality and retribution.
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
What, not even a chuckle or giggle at my parody?
Tough crowd:D
That would be nice. If we could all be sisters. But then all we're doing anyway is fighting over men, so how can we be sisters?
Kidding aside, women are their own worst enemy.
I think of my grandmother, made to marry at 16. She never had any say over anything and saw life as babies and drudgery. I have all these choices. Lucky me.
manhattan is an island
like the women who are
surrounded by children in a car
surrounded by cars
or manhattan was a project
that projected the worst of mankind
first one and then the other
has made its mark on my mind
it's sixty years later
near the hypo-center of the a-bomb
i'm in the middle of hiroshima
watching a twisted old eucalyptus tree wave
one of the very few lives that survived and lives on
remembering the day it was suddenly
thousands of degrees in the shade
and what all of nature gave birth to
terror took in a blinding ray
with the kind of pain
it would take cancer so many years just to say
oh to grow up gagged and blindfolded
a man's world in your little girl's head
the voice of the great mother drowned out
in the constant honking
haunting the car crash up ahead
oh to grow up hypnotized
and try to shake yourself awake
cuz you can sense what has been lost
cuz you can sense what is at stake
yeah, so
it took me a few years to catch on
that those days i catch everyone's eye
correspond with those nights of the month
when the moon gleams like an egg in the sky
and men are using a sense
they don't even know they have
just to watch me walk by
and me, i'm supposed to be sensible
leave my animal outside to cry
but when all of nature conspires
to make me her glorious whore
it's cuz in my body i hold the secret recipe
of precisely what life is for
and the patriarchy that looks to shame me for it
is the same one making war
and i've said too much already
but i'll tell you something more
to split yourself in two
is just the most radical thing you can do
so girl if that shit ain't up to you
then you simply are not free
cuz from the sunlight on my hair
to which eggs i grow to term
to the expression that i wear
all i really own is me
yes to split yourself in two
is just the most radical thing you can do
goddess forbid that little adam
should grow so jealous of eve
and in the face of the great farce
of the nuclear age
feminism ain't about equality
it's about reprieve
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Grandma had 10 babies by the time she was 30. Her reprieve came when the oldest was big enough to keep grandpa away from her. No more babies.
Thanks Kabong
I did not feel the need to giggle...i felt the need to run and hide for a world filled with dominant women;)
lets just hope that no one in that story of yours (considering it wil be 3010)is thinking of dna and the posibility of gendercontrol...before birth....that would change your story even more dramaticly:)....turning it in a complete horror movie!!!lol
but as far as feminism goes ,i think that women saying they want control over men are doing the same thing as what they are complaining about..repressing some one else!I think men and women are different in a lot of things and that is a good thing;),but i do not see why they should have differt numbers on their paycheck for the same job.so what does that make me....semi feminist? i don't know....
No offense, but plenty of women do act as sisters. Maybe you should join them instead of buying into the whole 'play women off each other' thing.
And you have 'all these choices' because women fought for them for you. So maybe don't villify them.
cross the river to the eastside
Wait. Which way do you mean this?
Thanks
cross the river to the eastside
One of the many faces of bi phobia. Along with heterophobia and homophobia, bi's also suffer from outright bi-phobia. One of its guises is in the fact that according to a minority of monosexuals (straights and gays) you can't help being straight (if the bigot is gay) or gay (if the bigot is straight). But bi people have a choice and choose to be attracted to the "wrong" sex (this is bollocks since you don't choose your sexuality). Many gay feminists (or bi feminists who convince themselves they're gay) see straight and bi women as traitors, but especially bi women as they're more traitors since they have the "choice".