Im kidding of course. Why is this? he has been painted, portrayed as a white man since the beginning of this crazy fairy tale.
im stilling trying to decide what i believe in but the older I get, the more i think its a big goddamn conspiracy to rule people. There I said it. Jesus would not have even been white? Am i wrong about this?
maybe i can believe in jesus as a good man and thats it.
i don't remember how to spell it but the polish Jesus isn't white. our church depicts Jesus as more ethiopien. guess i don't remember how to spell that either. i'll try to find the spelling and maybe a link when my animals are fed.
It just appears to me that it has manipulated over time. Doesnt sit right with me.
P.s this isnt just coming to me now of course.
It has been manipulated over time; however, I dont' think that it has necessarily been manipulated for any "holier than thou" reasons in all cases. I think once we (society) focuses on what color jesus is and isn't or should or shouldn't be we're pretty much hosed and have lost sight of what he taught and what he did.
I figured this wasn't a recent epiphany for you.
make sure the fortune that you seek...is the fortune that you need
i don't remember how to spell it but the polish Jesus isn't white. our church depicts Jesus as more ethiopien. guess i don't remember how to spell that either. i'll try to find the spelling and maybe a link when my animals are fed.
And and it's throughout western history Jesus was a white man.
That's not true. There are a few black Marias in churches in the south of France. Even in Luxembourg city there is a chapelle with a black maria. There are a lot of theories saying that Maria were from an african country.
Beavis : Is this Pearl Jam?
Butt-head: This guy makes faces like Eddie Vedder.
Beavis: No, Eddie Vedder makes faces like this guy.
Butt-head: I heard these guys, like, came first and Pearl Jam ripped them off.
Beavis: No, Pearl Jam came first.
Butt-head: Well, they both suck.
Really? I wonder how Americans would feel if George Washington began being portrayed throughout the world as a black man?
That's because everyone knows that Washington was white but who can really say which color Jesus had? The Vatican already lied in a lot of cases.
Beavis : Is this Pearl Jam?
Butt-head: This guy makes faces like Eddie Vedder.
Beavis: No, Eddie Vedder makes faces like this guy.
Butt-head: I heard these guys, like, came first and Pearl Jam ripped them off.
Beavis: No, Pearl Jam came first.
Butt-head: Well, they both suck.
It's not a matter of you disagreeing. There is no evidence. End of story. If you can produce some evidence then please do.
where have you been? why do you think that a man born 2012 years ago is still remembered and honored so? most of the world recognise Jesus including the hindu and buddist scriptures; and yes, muslim.
seems like a pretty big fan club for someone you say didn't exist.
where have you been? why do you think that a man born 2012 years ago is still remembered and honored so? most of the world recognise Jesus including the hindu and buddist scriptures; and yes, muslim.
seems like a pretty big fan club for someone you say didn't exist.
'According to the Buddhist tradition, the historical Buddha Siddharta Gautama was born to the Shakya clan, at the beginning of the Magadha period (546–324 BCE), in the plains of Lumbini, Southern Nepal. He is also known as the Shakyamuni (literally "The sage of the Shakya clan").' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Buddhism
The Vedas
'The actual date of these ancient scriptures is a nebulous topic. Yet, the description of an extremely cold climate leads some to believe that the Vedas are close to 20,000 years old, but there are some modern scholars who think that the number is exaggerated and should be about 5000.' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vedas
You say that the Hindu and Buddhist scriptures recognise Jesus? In that case he must be a few thousand years older then we are led to believe.
'According to the Buddhist tradition, the historical Buddha Siddharta Gautama was born to the Shakya clan, at the beginning of the Magadha period (546–324 BCE), in the plains of Lumbini, Southern Nepal. He is also known as the Shakyamuni (literally "The sage of the Shakya clan").' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Buddhism
The Vedas
'The actual date of these ancient scriptures is a nebulous topic. Yet, the description of an extremely cold climate leads some to believe that the Vedas are close to 20,000 years old, but there are some modern scholars who think that the number is exaggerated and should be about 5000.' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vedas
You say that the Hindu and Buddhist scriptures recognise Jesus? In that case he must be a few thousand years older then we are led to believe.
religious scriptures are constantly added to. the bible has many versions which are not the same. the best example is the saints added to religions recently. in 1000 years these saints will be included in scriptures as they are now. the hindu sanscripts (sp?) say Jesus was told that all rivers lead to the sea; meaning all religions lead to God. the buddist scriptures speak of a holy man from jerusalum (sp?) who came to teach during the time the christians call the "missing" years of Jesus.
food for thought.
Im kidding of course. Why is this? he has been painted, portrayed as a white man since the beginning of this crazy fairy tale.
im stilling trying to decide what i believe in but the older I get, the more i think its a big goddamn conspiracy to rule people. There I said it. Jesus would not have even been white? Am i wrong about this?
maybe i can believe in jesus as a good man and thats it.
Crazy fairy tale? it doesnt bother you that your offending peoples relgious beliefs?
i'll also add that religion is the contemplation of what happens after death. not the belief in God.
deffinitions change with time as we advance and decline.
religious scriptures are constantly added to. the bible has many versions which are not the same. the best example is the saints added to religions recently. in 1000 years these saints will be included in scriptures as they are now. the hindu sanscripts (sp?) say Jesus was told that all rivers lead to the sea; meaning all religions lead to God. the buddist scriptures speak of a holy man from jerusalum (sp?) who came to teach during the time the christians call the "missing" years of Jesus.
food for thought.
Fair enough. This is not historical evidence though. As I said above, there was no historical evidence of the time which pointed to Jesus having existed at the time he is said to have done....
'All that we know about him comes mainly from the Gospels and the Koran. Two thousand years ago, at the time he is said to have lived, Palestine was part of the Roman empire. Yet no Roman record exists that can bear witness, directly or indirectly, to the Gospel story of Jesus. Even more surprising is the absence of any reference to Jesus in the writings of Jewish authors living at that period in Jerusalem or Alexandria, although we know from Talmudic writings that the Jews did know of Jesus, even if they refused to accept that he was either the Messiah or descended from the house of David.
As a result, some authors have concluded that jesus never lived but was an ancient mythological figure, adapted later as a historical figure. On the other hand, thousands of authors have written books about Jesus as a real person. Some claim to be giving an account of the historical Christ. Not one of them, however, has produced a shred of historical evidence in support of this claim. Such works are to be looked upon as pure speculation - editngs of the stories and teachings we find in the New Testament with some additional information interpolated about life in Palestine and the Roman Empire at what is accepted as the start of the Christian era.
The earliest Gospel account of the life of Jesus did not appear until the last quarter of the first century A.D, at least fifty years after the supposed date of his death. Great excitement was therefore generated by the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls in a series of caves at Qumran, to the west of the north end of the Dead sea in what is now the Israeli occupied West Bank, beginning in the summer of 1947....The manuscripts, in Hebrew and Aramaic, were dated dated 200 B.C. and A.D 50 and include biblical and sectarian texts, Jewish literature, and other documents...As they came from the Holy Land and covered the period before and after the years when Jesus is generally accepted to have lived, it was widely hoped that the Scrolls would provide firsthand evidence to support the Gospel stories and shed new light on Jewish and Christian history....
Far from confirming accepted ideas about the origins of Christianity, however, these texts contradicted them. On the one hand they provided negative information about Jesus of nazareth; on the other, they provided postive information of a Christ and a Christian Church that predated the supposed start of the Christian era by at least two centuries.'
Ahmed Osman - 'Jesus in the House of the Pharoahs' (The Essene revelations on the historical Jesus)
'If Jesus lived, suffered, and died in the period of Roman rule over Palestine, it is curious that his name does not appear in the writings of three distinguished contemporary authors Philo Judaeus, Justus of Tiberias, and Flavius Josephus.
This absence is particularly striking in the case of the thirty-eight works left behind by Philo Judaeus, who was born c15 B.C. and died some two decades after the supposed date of the Crucifixion. Philo was a man of eminence and importance. His brother was the head of the Jewish community living in Alexandria, his son was married to a grand-daughter of King Herod, and Philo himself was chosen to head a mission to Rome to plead with Caligula, the third Roman emperor (A.D 37-41), who believed he was divine, to withdraw an edict ordering the Jews to place the imperial image in their Temple at Alexandria and worship it.
Although a Jew, Philo was also a believer of the Greek philosopher Plato and is known as the first of the neo-Platonists who tried to reconcile Greek doctrines with the revelations of the Old Testament. His works were recognised as having a close affinity with Christian ideas and many scholars have seen him as the connecting link between Greek thought and the New Testament. Some have even gone as far as to suggest that Philo's philosophy influenced the thinking of St. Paul. It has also been asserted by Eusebius (c. A.D. 260-342), one of the early Church Fathers who wrote an ecclesiastical history down to his own time, that Philo formed an aquaintanceship with St. Peter in Rome, but this particular statement lacks confirmation.
Although Philo wrote admiringly about the monastic Essene sect of his time, and despite his close links with Christian thought, we find only one New Testament figure in his works - Pontius Pilate.
It is a similar story with Justus of Tiberias, a place on the west shore of the Sea of Galiliee, which is mentioned frequently in the Gospels. Justus wrote a history of herod the Great. Nowhere does he refer to Jesus or herods order to slaughter all children under the age of two. Although his work is now lost, it was known to Photius, Bishop of Constantinople in the ninth century A.D., who confirmed the absence in it of any mention of Jesus....'
Ahmed Osman - Jesus in the House of the Pharoahs (The Essene Revelations on the historical jesus).
'If Jesus lived, suffered, and died in the period of Roman rule over Palestine, it is curious that his name does not appear in the writings of three distinguished contemporary authors Philo Judaeus, Justus of Tiberias, and Flavius Josephus.
This absence is particularly striking in the case of the thirty-eight works left behind by Philo Judaeus, who was born c15 B.C. and died some two decades after the supposed date of the Crucifixion. Philo was a man of eminence and importance. His brother was the head of the Jewish community living in Alexandria, his son was married to a grand-daughter of King Herod, and Philo himself was chosen to head a mission to Rome to plead with Caligula, the third Roman emperor (A.D 37-41), who believed he was divine, to withdraw an edict ordering the Jews to place the imperial image in their Temple at Alexandria and worship it.
Although a Jew, Philo was also a believer of the Greek philosopher Plato and is known as the first of the neo-Platonists who tried to reconcile Greek doctrines with the revelations of the Old Testament. His works were recognised as having a close affinity with Christian ideas and many scholars have seen him as the connecting link between Greek thought and the New Testament. Some have even gone as far as to suggest that Philo's philosophy influenced the thinking of St. Paul. It has also been asserted by Eusebius (c. A.D. 260-342), one of the early Church Fathers who wrote an ecclesiastical history down to his own time, that Philo formed an aquaintanceship with St. Peter in Rome, but this particular statement lacks confirmation.
Although Philo wrote admiringly about the monastic Essene sect of his time, and despite his close links with Christian thought, we find only one New Testament figure in his works - Pontius Pilate.
It is a similar story with Justus of Tiberias, a place on the west shore of the Sea of Galiliee, which is mentioned frequently in the Gospels. Justus wrote a history of herod the Great. Nowhere does he refer to Jesus or herods order to slaughter all children under the age of two. Although his work is now lost, it was known to Photius, Bishop of Constantinople in the ninth century A.D., who confirmed the absence in it of any mention of Jesus....'
Ahmed Osman - Jesus in the House of the Pharoahs (The Essene Revelations on the historical jesus).
these authors did not write of north or south america either yet they existed at the time. written roman history is rich in fact concerning his existence; as well as french; egyption; jewish; musslim; and many other documents written at the same time.
chances are; i have never written your sir name. does this mean you don't exist?
Byrnzie, you have one source, Ahmed Osman. That just one source and out of that one source you conclude that there is absolutely no evidence at all. Well, you might as well believe the Bible then.
Really? I wonder how Americans would feel if George Washington began being portrayed throughout the world as a black man?
You see, the difference is...follow me here. We have color renderings of what George washington looked like. So if the rest of the world portrays him as a black man it is out of willfill stupidity. We don't have any first hand drawings / sketches of Jesus so therefore we have no conclusive evidence of what color he was. Personally, I think he was darker skinned. Look at the area he came from So again, I don't htink it matters what color Jesus is... Christians believe in him and his message NOT his skin color.
make sure the fortune that you seek...is the fortune that you need
i havn't read much of this beyond the original post. Jesus was most definitely not a white dude. The fact that so many artistic representations of are such, is probably because said representations were rendered by white artists. i think it has little to do with some vast conspiracy. We ethnocentrically tend to think of our religious figures as looking like ourselves, especially with very little to go by. It in no way negates Jesus' significance nor does it render faith in him invalid. Thats absurd.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
these authors did not write of north or south america either yet they existed at the time. written roman history is rich in fact concerning his existence; as well as french; egyption; jewish; musslim; and many other documents written at the same time.
chances are; i have never written your sir name. does this mean you don't exist?
Please provide examples of such contemporary literature of the time which mentions Jesus.
The fact is that none exists, therefore your comments are empty and meaningless.
Byrnzie, you have one source, Ahmed Osman. That just one source and out of that one source you conclude that there is absolutely no evidence at all. Well, you might as well believe the Bible then.
You see, the difference is...follow me here. We have color renderings of what George washington looked like. So if the rest of the world portrays him as a black man it is out of willfill stupidity. We don't have any first hand drawings / sketches of Jesus so therefore we have no conclusive evidence of what color he was. Personally, I think he was darker skinned. Look at the area he came from So again, I don't htink it matters what color Jesus is... Christians believe in him and his message NOT his skin color.
So Jesus may have been white then? That's strange, seeing as he lived and died in the middle east.
Byrnzie, you have one source, Ahmed Osman. That just one source and out of that one source you conclude that there is absolutely no evidence at all. Well, you might as well believe the Bible then.
I have used one source to serve my purpose. You have no source because there is no contemporary historical evidence to suggest that Jesus lived and died when he is widely believed to have done. In fact, what evidence there is points to him having existed between 200 - 1000 years previous to 1A.D.
Jesus was definitely not a white man when he was... well, a living man. So your initial hypothesis is wrong.
'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'
I have used one source to serve my purpose. You have no source because there is no contemporary historical evidence to suggest that Jesus lived and died when he is widely believed to have done. In fact, what evidence there is points to him having existed between 200 - 1000 years previous to 1A.D.
You are simply wrong, there is an abundance of evidence to suggest he lived when he did. The historian Josphesus (who lived around the time of Christ) documents him living around the timeframe of the start of the first century.
The wind is blowing cold
Have we lost our way tonight?
Have we lost our hope to sorrow?
Feels like were all alone
Running further from what’s right
And there are no more heroes to follow
You are simply wrong, there is an abundance of evidence to suggest he lived when he did. The historian Josphesus (who lived around the time of Christ) documents him living around the timeframe of the start of the first century.
If you knew anything about the subject then you would know that the passages in Josephus' 'The Histories' mentioning Jesus have since been proven to be later interpolations which were inserted into the work by European translators within the Church about 600 years after it was written.
Comments
i don't remember how to spell it but the polish Jesus isn't white. our church depicts Jesus as more ethiopien. guess i don't remember how to spell that either. i'll try to find the spelling and maybe a link when my animals are fed.
It absolutely does not, i agree.
It just appears to me that it has manipulated over time. Doesnt sit right with me.
P.s this isnt just coming to me now of course.
It has been manipulated over time; however, I dont' think that it has necessarily been manipulated for any "holier than thou" reasons in all cases. I think once we (society) focuses on what color jesus is and isn't or should or shouldn't be we're pretty much hosed and have lost sight of what he taught and what he did.
I figured this wasn't a recent epiphany for you.
http://groups.msn.com/PearlJamNirvana/messages.msnw
http://www.czestochowa.us/home_us.php
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Madonna_of_Cz%C4%99stochowa
i'd check the wikipedia link first.
It's not a matter of you disagreeing. There is no evidence. End of story. If you can produce some evidence then please do.
Really? I wonder how Americans would feel if George Washington began being portrayed throughout the world as a black man?
Butt-head: This guy makes faces like Eddie Vedder.
Beavis: No, Eddie Vedder makes faces like this guy.
Butt-head: I heard these guys, like, came first and Pearl Jam ripped them off.
Beavis: No, Pearl Jam came first.
Butt-head: Well, they both suck.
Butt-head: This guy makes faces like Eddie Vedder.
Beavis: No, Eddie Vedder makes faces like this guy.
Butt-head: I heard these guys, like, came first and Pearl Jam ripped them off.
Beavis: No, Pearl Jam came first.
Butt-head: Well, they both suck.
where have you been? why do you think that a man born 2012 years ago is still remembered and honored so? most of the world recognise Jesus including the hindu and buddist scriptures; and yes, muslim.
seems like a pretty big fan club for someone you say didn't exist.
'According to the Buddhist tradition, the historical Buddha Siddharta Gautama was born to the Shakya clan, at the beginning of the Magadha period (546–324 BCE), in the plains of Lumbini, Southern Nepal. He is also known as the Shakyamuni (literally "The sage of the Shakya clan").'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Buddhism
The Vedas
'The actual date of these ancient scriptures is a nebulous topic. Yet, the description of an extremely cold climate leads some to believe that the Vedas are close to 20,000 years old, but there are some modern scholars who think that the number is exaggerated and should be about 5000.'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vedas
You say that the Hindu and Buddhist scriptures recognise Jesus? In that case he must be a few thousand years older then we are led to believe.
religious scriptures are constantly added to. the bible has many versions which are not the same. the best example is the saints added to religions recently. in 1000 years these saints will be included in scriptures as they are now. the hindu sanscripts (sp?) say Jesus was told that all rivers lead to the sea; meaning all religions lead to God. the buddist scriptures speak of a holy man from jerusalum (sp?) who came to teach during the time the christians call the "missing" years of Jesus.
food for thought.
http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20061129/i/r3234066728.jpg
Crazy fairy tale? it doesnt bother you that your offending peoples relgious beliefs?
Maybe he thinks that only PCers are offended.
deffinitions change with time as we advance and decline.
Fair enough. This is not historical evidence though. As I said above, there was no historical evidence of the time which pointed to Jesus having existed at the time he is said to have done....
'All that we know about him comes mainly from the Gospels and the Koran. Two thousand years ago, at the time he is said to have lived, Palestine was part of the Roman empire. Yet no Roman record exists that can bear witness, directly or indirectly, to the Gospel story of Jesus. Even more surprising is the absence of any reference to Jesus in the writings of Jewish authors living at that period in Jerusalem or Alexandria, although we know from Talmudic writings that the Jews did know of Jesus, even if they refused to accept that he was either the Messiah or descended from the house of David.
As a result, some authors have concluded that jesus never lived but was an ancient mythological figure, adapted later as a historical figure. On the other hand, thousands of authors have written books about Jesus as a real person. Some claim to be giving an account of the historical Christ. Not one of them, however, has produced a shred of historical evidence in support of this claim. Such works are to be looked upon as pure speculation - editngs of the stories and teachings we find in the New Testament with some additional information interpolated about life in Palestine and the Roman Empire at what is accepted as the start of the Christian era.
The earliest Gospel account of the life of Jesus did not appear until the last quarter of the first century A.D, at least fifty years after the supposed date of his death. Great excitement was therefore generated by the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls in a series of caves at Qumran, to the west of the north end of the Dead sea in what is now the Israeli occupied West Bank, beginning in the summer of 1947....The manuscripts, in Hebrew and Aramaic, were dated dated 200 B.C. and A.D 50 and include biblical and sectarian texts, Jewish literature, and other documents...As they came from the Holy Land and covered the period before and after the years when Jesus is generally accepted to have lived, it was widely hoped that the Scrolls would provide firsthand evidence to support the Gospel stories and shed new light on Jewish and Christian history....
Far from confirming accepted ideas about the origins of Christianity, however, these texts contradicted them. On the one hand they provided negative information about Jesus of nazareth; on the other, they provided postive information of a Christ and a Christian Church that predated the supposed start of the Christian era by at least two centuries.'
Ahmed Osman - 'Jesus in the House of the Pharoahs' (The Essene revelations on the historical Jesus)
This absence is particularly striking in the case of the thirty-eight works left behind by Philo Judaeus, who was born c15 B.C. and died some two decades after the supposed date of the Crucifixion. Philo was a man of eminence and importance. His brother was the head of the Jewish community living in Alexandria, his son was married to a grand-daughter of King Herod, and Philo himself was chosen to head a mission to Rome to plead with Caligula, the third Roman emperor (A.D 37-41), who believed he was divine, to withdraw an edict ordering the Jews to place the imperial image in their Temple at Alexandria and worship it.
Although a Jew, Philo was also a believer of the Greek philosopher Plato and is known as the first of the neo-Platonists who tried to reconcile Greek doctrines with the revelations of the Old Testament. His works were recognised as having a close affinity with Christian ideas and many scholars have seen him as the connecting link between Greek thought and the New Testament. Some have even gone as far as to suggest that Philo's philosophy influenced the thinking of St. Paul. It has also been asserted by Eusebius (c. A.D. 260-342), one of the early Church Fathers who wrote an ecclesiastical history down to his own time, that Philo formed an aquaintanceship with St. Peter in Rome, but this particular statement lacks confirmation.
Although Philo wrote admiringly about the monastic Essene sect of his time, and despite his close links with Christian thought, we find only one New Testament figure in his works - Pontius Pilate.
It is a similar story with Justus of Tiberias, a place on the west shore of the Sea of Galiliee, which is mentioned frequently in the Gospels. Justus wrote a history of herod the Great. Nowhere does he refer to Jesus or herods order to slaughter all children under the age of two. Although his work is now lost, it was known to Photius, Bishop of Constantinople in the ninth century A.D., who confirmed the absence in it of any mention of Jesus....'
Ahmed Osman - Jesus in the House of the Pharoahs (The Essene Revelations on the historical jesus).
these authors did not write of north or south america either yet they existed at the time. written roman history is rich in fact concerning his existence; as well as french; egyption; jewish; musslim; and many other documents written at the same time.
chances are; i have never written your sir name. does this mean you don't exist?
naděje umírá poslední
You see, the difference is...follow me here. We have color renderings of what George washington looked like. So if the rest of the world portrays him as a black man it is out of willfill stupidity. We don't have any first hand drawings / sketches of Jesus so therefore we have no conclusive evidence of what color he was. Personally, I think he was darker skinned. Look at the area he came from So again, I don't htink it matters what color Jesus is... Christians believe in him and his message NOT his skin color.
Please provide examples of such contemporary literature of the time which mentions Jesus.
The fact is that none exists, therefore your comments are empty and meaningless.
O.k. Provide some evidence to the contrary then.
So Jesus may have been white then? That's strange, seeing as he lived and died in the middle east.
I have used one source to serve my purpose. You have no source because there is no contemporary historical evidence to suggest that Jesus lived and died when he is widely believed to have done. In fact, what evidence there is points to him having existed between 200 - 1000 years previous to 1A.D.
- the great Sir Leo Harrison
Have we lost our way tonight?
Have we lost our hope to sorrow?
Feels like were all alone
Running further from what’s right
And there are no more heroes to follow
So what are we becoming?
Where did we go wrong?
You are simply wrong, there is an abundance of evidence to suggest he lived when he did. The historian Josphesus (who lived around the time of Christ) documents him living around the timeframe of the start of the first century.
Have we lost our way tonight?
Have we lost our hope to sorrow?
Feels like were all alone
Running further from what’s right
And there are no more heroes to follow
So what are we becoming?
Where did we go wrong?
If you knew anything about the subject then you would know that the passages in Josephus' 'The Histories' mentioning Jesus have since been proven to be later interpolations which were inserted into the work by European translators within the Church about 600 years after it was written.
Try harder!