The illegal immigration question no one will ask

hrd2imgn

ok we have heard both sides, several strategies on what to do, so why do we never get this asked to the current trend in solutions?

The solution being deporting all illegals who have broken the law, the rest pay fines, learn English, and get in the back of the line.

my question is this, Didn't EVERY SINGLE illegal break the law coming here unlawfully? I am talking about every illegal from every country, not just Mexico. I mean they are called ILLEGAL immigrants right(or undocumneted for the PC)

lets also face it deporting 10-15% of the American workforce will just not work

so why is this question never asked? Why do all the candidates seem to ignore this aspect of the whole issue?

I am not anti immigrant or racist, I just want to know why not.

Jimmydean55

Well, technically, we're all illegal immigrants. Except Indians.

hrd2imgn

lets not derail the orginal question please

godpt3

the solution is to strictly enforce the current employer regulations regarding illegal immigrants. And then back that up with fines so large and painful that no company will touch an illegal with a 10-foot pole.

godpt3

Jimmydean55 wrote:

Well, technically, we're all illegal immigrants. Except Indians.

But hey, at least I'm OG illegal. My family tree dates back to some guy named John Adams

godpt3

hrd2imgn wrote:

lets also face it deporting 10-15% of the American workforce will just not work

heaven forbid an employer actually pay a decent wage

tybird

Jimmydean55 wrote:

Well, technically, we're all illegal immigrants. Except Indians.

In the strictest sense, even the "natives" are immigrants. Primate evolution was pretty low on the American continents......monkeys were the ceiling. Everything from the Order Homo migrated in from Asia during one of the Ice Ages....before that the two continents were wonderful wildlife preserves.

binauralonthecape

the reason is that no one REALLY wants to attack this issue, they can have strong words about it that fire everyone up, but at the end of the day, not enough politicians want to put that kind of effort into a serious problem. our country is way too pc to address this issue properly..

ryan198

binauralonthecape wrote:

the reason is that no one REALLY wants to attack this issue, they can have strong words about it that fire everyone up, but at the end of the day, not enough politicians want to put that kind of effort into a serious problem. our country is way too pc to address this issue properly..

While we often get a negative image of "illegals" who come in this country and take "our jobs", the truth of the matter is that many come here to work b/c they are getting fucked by 'Merica in their home country. They come here for jobs that pay a little bit more to help out their families at home, and they want to become citizens of this country and pay taxes. While you may think it's bad that Mexican's cross the border to work for us, please realize that they weren't doing that in the same numbers pre-NAFTA, when they lost their freedom, land, and means for subsistence. The Carribbean is fucked because we have made their economy depend on baseball, tourism, sugar, and nike. The U.S. has always made South America their toy to mess with (see: Argentina especially).

It's pretty easy on our part to sit here and blame "those illegals" from our pedestal of privilege, but the real reason most people are coming here is the fault of our country in the first place. So, you see, the reason why 'solutions' to the problem don't happen is not because we are overly PC, it's because the solution to the problem (relinquishing our dominance over the south) would hurt the pockets of the rich motherfuckers who run this country. Yet you get TV "news" programs which are run by who?...Oh yeah the rich motherfuckers who run this country...that tell us that "illegals" are bad (some may be), but you never get to the root of the cause b/c that would be bad for business.

KosmicJelli

I love the argument by some that illegals are doing jobs that nobody wants... but does that make it okay? Doesn't it perpetuate low wages? Maybe its a job that should pay more? Lets face it... employers do not want to pay decent wages/benefits to the common worker... Why? They dont have to. Public Welfare = Corporate Welfare... government picks up the tab for medical benefits, food stamps so that big corporations like WalMart or McDonalds can pay everyone $6.75 an hour reguardless illegal or citizen. Back to the topic.. i dont believe you should come here illegally. Sorry. I dont have a problem if you have gone through all the red tape to get to be a citizen in this country. I think it shows integrity of a person whom is applying for citizenship. They really make you jump through hoops! I dont have a problem with immigrants. I have a problem with them coming here illegally. I think people confuse the two.

DriftingByTheStorm

My question, in response to the original question, is why in this country are people increasingly unwilling to accept short term setbacks in order to right a longterm problem?

Be it fiat money\the fed, having to "throw away" your vote on a REAL candidate, stopping illegal immigration, ending farm subisdisation ... regardless of the issue,

PEOPLE CONTINUE TO BITCH, "BUT THAT IS HOW IT IS NOW, AND YOU CAN'T CHANGE IT" ... or "It won't work. How are you going to go back?"

WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE?

If the doctor says you have a fucking malignant growth on your arm, and they need to amputate it before you DIE ... do you say ... "Yeah, but its going to hurt alot, and if you cut off my arm i can't..." ... wipe my ass, read the paper, clap my hands ... whatever the fuck ...

WTF PEOPLE.

You can't continue to allow problems to mount, just because reverting to what is
a. just, right, and appropriate
and
b. what WORKS IN THE LONG RUN

is painful in the shorterm.

You guys are fucking yourselves, your children, and the entire country in perpetuity with this narrow minded, short sighted, neurotic hypocritical ... all you want is NOT the truth .... mentality.

:rolleyes:

stupidcorporatewhore

binauralonthecape wrote:

At the end of the day, not enough politicians want to put that kind of effort into a serious problem.

I don't think they think there IS a problem.

And if there is a solution, I think they want to figure out how they can make illegals "legal" and still pay them as little as possible.

bye bye jobs!

beachdweller

hrd2imgn wrote:

ok we have heard both sides, several strategies on what to do, so why do we never get this asked to the current trend in solutions?

The solution being deporting all illegals who have broken the law, the rest pay fines, learn English, and get in the back of the line.

my question is this, Didn't EVERY SINGLE illegal break the law coming here unlawfully? I am talking about every illegal from every country, not just Mexico. I mean they are called ILLEGAL immigrants right(or undocumneted for the PC)

lets also face it deporting 10-15% of the American workforce will just not work

so why is this question never asked? Why do all the candidates seem to ignore this aspect of the whole issue?

I am not anti immigrant or racist, I just want to know why not.

because most Americans don't pay attention to the complexity of the issues, and just stating what they want to here will work most of the time.

hrd2imgn

I am not seeing what you are getting at. So you are saying that question never gets asked because americans are short sighted basically? I just didn't get the point you were making if not that.

I have nothing against anyone who wants to come here, just come here legally and wait your turn. Respect and obey our laws, and contribute to making America a better place. Many here illegally do make America a better I place, I don't argue against their worth as a human or the contribution they make, I just want to know why it never gets brought up when the debaters say they will deport all the lawbreakes, and let the rest stay/pay a fine/get in the end of the line when they all broke the law in crossing into the USA illegally.

I am not trying to make a personal attack, on any group of people or country, I just wonder why no one has asked that question to the candidates? If it is bury our heads in the sanditis as I think drifting is getting at, why is it being tolerated?

I am not debating the effect of illegals here, simply why is this question never brought up

sponger

It reminds me of a couple of news articles that were talked about on TV during the Katrina disaster.

One news article showed a group of black people wading through the flood whilst carrying armloads of food that they had lifted from a local market.
The caption read, "Katrina shoplifters...."

Another news article showed white people doing the same thing and the caption read, "Katrina victims forage for food."

It's not that these people illegally came to the US with the hopes of providing a better life for their familiy. The problem seems to be that they're mexican.

If we are a nation of mature adults who are willing to accept responsibility for our own shortcomings, then the obvious stance to take on this issue is one that criticizes not the illegals for "breaking the law", but US businesses for using them like slaves for their own profits and allowing them to live in total squallor like animals. But, see, they're mexican, so that's OK if they live like that...after all, they broke the law.

fragileblake

Great idea. Companies will either
1. Leave the country, if possible

or

2. Pass on cost of paying workers minimum wage to the consumer making American uncompetitive in a global economy

It sucks but this is a growing pain of globalization. I don't see a solution thats both possible and moral.

godpt3 wrote:

the solution is to strictly enforce the current employer regulations regarding illegal immigrants. And then back that up with fines so large and painful that no company will touch an illegal with a 10-foot pole.

Skitch Patterson

I am always kind of confused by the whole "We are all immigrants too" idea.
Are we? My great great grandfather was. He also walked 5 miles to school uphill both ways in the snow, with his little sister strapped to his back. Im not and immigrant- i am descended from them. I thought the laws were pretty clear that if you are born in the US you are a citizen.

jlew24asu

Skitch Patterson wrote:

I am always kind of confused by the whole "We are all immigrants too" idea.
Are we? My great great grandfather was. He also walked 5 miles to school uphill both ways in the snow, with his little sister strapped to his back. Im not and immigrant- i am descended from them. I thought the laws were pretty clear that if you are born in the US you are a citizen.

you are 100% correct. people like to think we are still the evil invaders and occupiers of Indian land. I dont get it.

binauralonthecape

ryan198 wrote:

While we often get a negative image of "illegals" who come in this country and take "our jobs", the truth of the matter is that many come here to work b/c they are getting fucked by 'Merica in their home country. They come here for jobs that pay a little bit more to help out their families at home, and they want to become citizens of this country and pay taxes. While you may think it's bad that Mexican's cross the border to work for us, please realize that they weren't doing that in the same numbers pre-NAFTA, when they lost their freedom, land, and means for subsistence. The Carribbean is fucked because we have made their economy depend on baseball, tourism, sugar, and nike. The U.S. has always made South America their toy to mess with (see: Argentina especially).

It's pretty easy on our part to sit here and blame "those illegals" from our pedestal of privilege, but the real reason most people are coming here is the fault of our country in the first place. So, you see, the reason why 'solutions' to the problem don't happen is not because we are overly PC, it's because the solution to the problem (relinquishing our dominance over the south) would hurt the pockets of the rich motherfuckers who run this country. Yet you get TV "news" programs which are run by who?...Oh yeah the rich motherfuckers who run this country...that tell us that "illegals" are bad (some may be), but you never get to the root of the cause b/c that would be bad for business.

..lets get back to the root of the argument, "illegals", they are law breakers, stop making excuses for them, if their government sucks, which btw the way it does, fix it, dont bring your problems up here for us to fix, i'm so sick of the babysitter mentality, grow a pair and rethink your excuses!!

binauralonthecape

hrd2imgn wrote:

I am not seeing what you are getting at. So you are saying that question never gets asked because americans are short sighted basically? I just didn't get the point you were making if not that.

I have nothing against anyone who wants to come here, just come here legally and wait your turn. Respect and obey our laws, and contribute to making America a better place. Many here illegally do make America a better I place, I don't argue against their worth as a human or the contribution they make, I just want to know why it never gets brought up when the debaters say they will deport all the lawbreakes, and let the rest stay/pay a fine/get in the end of the line when they all broke the law in crossing into the USA illegally.

I am not trying to make a personal attack, on any group of people or country, I just wonder why no one has asked that question to the candidates? If it is bury our heads in the sanditis as I think drifting is getting at, why is it being tolerated?

I am not debating the effect of illegals here, simply why is this question never brought up

because its too REAL of a question, not one candidate has the courage to say something, because he/she will never come through with whatever tough line stance will would provide..

binauralonthecape

sponger wrote:

It reminds me of a couple of news articles that were talked about on TV during the Katrina disaster.

One news article showed a group of black people wading through the flood whilst carrying armloads of food that they had lifted from a local market.
The caption read, "Katrina shoplifters...."

Another news article showed white people doing the same thing and the caption read, "Katrina victims forage for food."

It's not that these people illegally came to the US with the hopes of providing a better life for their familiy. The problem seems to be that they're mexican.

If we are a nation of mature adults who are willing to accept responsibility for our own shortcomings, then the obvious stance to take on this issue is one that criticizes not the illegals for "breaking the law", but US businesses for using them like slaves for their own profits and allowing them to live in total squallor like animals. But, see, they're mexican, so that's OK if they live like that...after all, they broke the law.

your post is complete idiocy, and you can no longer comment on the topic, for you run the risk of other people believing your complete and utter nonsense..

jlew24asu

I think every person who is here illegally should have a chance to "apply" (or whatever you want to call it) for a path to citizenship. sending everyone back because they wanted a better life is wrong and not the american way.

if you want to live here you should plan by the same rules as everyone else. pay taxes and obey the laws and we're cool.

binauralonthecape

jlew24asu wrote:

I think every person who is here illegally should have a chance to "apply" (or whatever you want to call it) for a path to citizenship. sending everyone back because they wanted a better life is wrong and not the american way.

if you want to live here you should plan by the same rules as everyone else. pay taxes and obey the laws and we're cool.

yeah, but dont you remember, thats amnesty, we've already done that (in "88 i think) and its didnt work, we need a wall, plain and simple, thats where it starts, and then more strict employer laws, and we go from there...

jlew24asu

binauralonthecape wrote:

yeah, but dont you remember, thats amnesty, we've already done that (in "88 i think) and its didnt work, we need a wall, plain and simple, thats where it starts, and then more strict employer laws, and we go from there...

I'm no expert here and I dont have a real solution to this problem but yes a wall would be a great start. and I dont want amnesty but I dont want to send them home either. I think there needs to be a new out of the box type strategy. I honestly believe the high majority of illegals are here because they want a better life. there needs to be a way to allow them that and at the same time not compromise our security and sovereignty.

prytocorduroy

Jimmydean55 wrote:

Well, technically, we're all illegal immigrants. Except Indians.

No that's not true. If you are born on American soil you are an American citizen, so the majority of us that are living here are not illegal.

melodious

signing on....

Jimmydean55

danny72688 wrote:

No that's not true. If you are born on American soil you are an American citizen, so the majority of us that are living here are not illegal.

But weren't the people who made that a law illegal immigrants??

prytocorduroy

Jimmydean55 wrote:

But weren't the people who made that a law illegal immigrants??

Probably. But the concept makes sense so I don't know if I'd consider them illegal (unless they were literally the ones who killed the Native Americans and stole their land and not the children of those people).

jlew24asu

Jimmydean55 wrote:

But weren't the people who made that a law illegal immigrants??

no. and if they were how is that relevant? borders of countries have been changing since the beginning of mankind. america become a country in 1776, end of story. people who were born in America are american citizens. same goes for the people who come here and follow the path to citizenship.

Jimmydean55

jlew24asu wrote:

no. and if they were how is that relevant? borders of countries have been changing since the beginning of mankind. america become a country in 1776, end of story. people who were born in America are american citizens. same goes for the people who come here and follow the path to citizenship.

By no means am I saying you're wrong. I understand that when our founding fathers came here, there were no laws concerning citizenship, as there are now.

I'm just pointing out the fact that *TECHNICALLY*, we're all illegal immigrants. Including the guys who wrote the 14th amendment.

hrd2imgn

the native americans did not believe in the concept of owning the land, so if no one owned it and the early settlers/explorers/murderers came here it was not illegal. just what they did to the native people was immoral.

I was born in the USA I am not illegal
My parents were born in the USA they are not illegal
my grandparents were born in the USA, they are not illegal
my Greats were born in Eastern Euope, they immigrated, and attained citizenship the legal way

I agree with the prior post, no candidate has the Stones to answer the question, that is why it is never asked.