While I don't agree with his sentiment it is far from being apologetic for the nazis. This is exactly what I was refering to. Some one is critical of the Jews and while his/her critism may be a bit harsh they are instantly compared to Nazis or Nazi sympathizers.
That is not what I am saying. I am not saying that when someone criticizes Israel or the Jews, they are a Nazi, or Nazi sympathizer. I am saying though, if one gives a rationale, or tries to justify the Holocaust, that is sympathizing with the Nazis.
you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane.
That is not what I am saying. I am not saying that when someone criticizes Israel or the Jews, they are a Nazi, or Nazi sympathizer. I am saying though, if one gives a rationale, or tries to justify the Holocaust, that is sympathizing with the Nazis.
I don't think he was trying to justify the holocaust. All he said was that so much focus is put on the sauffering of the Jews but no one seems to look at their participation in actions and/or events that caused close to or equal harm to others.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
I don't think he was trying to justify the holocaust. All he said was that so much focus is put on the sauffering of the Jews but no one seems to look at their participation in actions and/or events that caused close to or equal harm to others.
I don't believe that's what he said, but I guess we understand him differently. Even so, there are still better ways, and analogies to be made.
you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane.
Paint it however you like, Yosi. Whatever makes you feel like you're accomplishing some great good for the whole of Israel. If you need to label me a Nazi apologist (which clearly I'm not), knock yourself out. It would be just as easy for me to label you a whiny revisionist...but I won't stoop to your predictable level.
Wait...let me try to tow your line for a moment...ahem...
"Israel and all of the Jews of the world are as docile and benevolent as cattle. We as a people have never done anything wrong, or treated any others inhumanly. Anyone who calls us on our shit is obviously a nazi apologist or anti-semite"
enharmonic, let me ask you a question. if you gave me the name of your grandfather, or greatgrandfather and i went and did some research and found out he was a criminal, do you really believe it would then somehow be karmicly just for me to come to your house and murder you, cause that seems to be the position you're taking. And I don't excuse the evil commited by anyone, Jew or non-Jew. If someone has done wrong they should be punished, in a court of law, where the punishment is commensurate with the crime. If this concept is beyond you then I am truly afraid to be living in the same society as you.
The concept is not beyond me, as I worked in criminal justice for years. It is simply not applicable to my discussion.
IF my ancestors were murderers or slave traders, and no one in my ancestry had attoned for that, then certainly I would expect that my lot inlife would be impacted. for all that I know, it could be the reason why any number of horrible things have happened to me in my life already. I have no problem with it, if it is my fate. But clearly you do not understand the concept of karma, for if you killed me, you would assume the same fate as my hypothetical ancestors.
I can't believe some of the replies in this thread. They are absolutely disgusting. I hope this thread gets locked. I never imagined how many people on this site were Nazi apologists.
Scary isn't it?....I wonder what the dumbass leader of Iran thinks happened to the tens of thousands of Muslims that disappeared in the former Yugoslavia. Does he think they went on a vacation? Denial of the Halocaust is straight up ignorance. If those movies of death camps being liberated are a hoax then the allies are really fucking good at special effects. Pretty hard to use makeup to make an actor 65 pounds and completely starving.
one foot in the door
the other foot in the gutter
sweet smell that they adore
I think I'd rather smother
-The Replacements-
I don't believe that's what he said, but I guess we understand him differently. Even so, there are still better ways, and analogies to be made.
I disagree. And mammasan has got it exactly right. Do I care that millions of people were murdered for no other reason than that they were Jews in WWII? Of course I do. It is horrible (as I have said many times now) and unacceptable. But, it is no more horrible than when the Jews dehumanized others and sold them as property.
Were the Jews not treated as property in WWII...getting numbered tattoos in the concentration camps...like you or I might etch a number on a bicycle we own to help identify it later if it were stolen? Seems to me that the cycle of treating people as property and in an inhumane way was visited upon the Jews AS A PEOPLE. One cannot rule out the karmic implications.
I fully expect that America will continue to suffer untold consequences for its actions in the world for the last few hundred years too. Doesn't make it right, but at the same time I won't be the person sitting here defending my country as if it were some doe-eyed innocent bystander in the grand scheme of things.
Paint it however you like, Yosi. Whatever makes you feel like you're accomplishing some great good for the whole of Israel. If you need to label me a Nazi apologist (which clearly I'm not), knock yourself out. It would be just as easy for me to label you a whiny revisionist...but I won't stoop to your predictable level.
Wait...let me try to tow your line for a moment...ahem...
"Israel and all of the Jews of the world are as docile and benevolent as cattle. We as a people have never done anything wrong, or treated any others inhumanly. Anyone who calls us on our shit is obviously a nazi apologist or anti-semite"
Nope, can't do it. Sorry. I tried.
Man, you are so full of it. No one here is saying that Jews do no wrong or that Israel does no wrong, or that anyone critical of Israel is an anti-semite or a Nazi apologist. What Yosi was saying is that you are a Nazi apologist for suggesting that somehow the victims of the holocaust were reaping their cosmic just deserts for the crimes of their ancestors, which by the way you keep asserting without ever having shown any evidence. Again, Jews and Israel can do wrong, and people are allowed to critisize Israel. You just happen to have apologized for the holocaust, even if somehow you are unaware of it, and you were called on it, so don't try to portray yourself as the poor victim of the big bad Jewish conspiracy to quash all critisism with the label of anti-semitism.
Man, you are so full of it. No one here is saying that Jews do no wrong or that Israel does no wrong, or that anyone critical of Israel is an anti-semite or a Nazi apologist. What Yosi was saying is that you are a Nazi apologist for suggesting that somehow the victims of the holocaust were reaping their cosmic just deserts for the crimes of their ancestors, which by the way you keep asserting without ever having shown any evidence. Again, Jews and Israel can do wrong, and people are allowed to critisize Israel. You just happen to have apologized for the holocaust, even if somehow you are unaware of it, and you were called on it, so don't try to portray yourself as the poor victim of the big bad Jewish conspiracy to quash all critisism with the label of anti-semitism.
Oh Christ...now you want me to show you evidence of Jews participating in the slave trade?
Take a history class...or if you're a Jew, shame on you for a cheap attempt at evasion.
I am a Jew and I'm not trying to evade anything and I know a lot of history, and while I don't doubt that there were certain Jews involved in the slave trade I have never heard about or read about some sort of massive Jewish involvement in slavery.
I am a Jew and I'm not trying to evade anything and I know a lot of history, and while I don't doubt that there were certain Jews involved in the slave trade I have never heard about or read about some sort of massive Jewish involvement in slavery.
Well, we can easily extrapolate that if you want to turn this into an analysis of semantics
Not all Africans were slaves
Not all Slavs were slaves
Not all Jews were slaves
Not all Jews were involved in the holocaust
I am speaking directly to the nature of the act inwhich Jewish people participated and allowed in their society. They are not alone in this, but they are also not innocent. They did clearly participate. Though too much emphasis is placed on their involvement in African slave trade (they were ship owners, and not necessarilly barterers at that point), there is a significant historical record of their involvement in the process of dehumaizing people for some benefit...though clearly monetary gain is different than ethnic cleansing.
Even to this day, slavery exists in Israel (in the form of women who are forced into the sex trade), unless the Jerusalem Post is a Nazi rag?
You can find plenty of info on this on the web...though sifting through some pretty disgusting websites that look like real sources to find real sources can be daunting
Well, we can easily extrapolate that if you want to turn this into an analysis of semantics
Not all Africans were slaves
Not all Slavs were slaves
Not all Jews were slaves
Not all Jews were involved in the holocaust
I am speaking directly to the nature of the act inwhich Jewish people participated and allowed in their society. They are not alone in this, but they are also not innocent. They did clearly participate. Though too much emphasis is placed on their involvement in African slave trade (they were ship owners, and not necessarilly barterers at that point), there is a significant historical record of their involvement in the process of dehumaizing people for some benefit...though clearly monetary gain is different than ethnic cleansing.
Even to this day, slavery exists in Israel (in the form of women who are forced into the sex trade), unless the Jerusalem Post is a Nazi rag?
You can find plenty of info on this on the web...though sifting through some pretty disgusting websites that look like real sources to find real sources can be daunting
I really don't know what to make of any of this nonsense except to repeat that while I don't doubt that there were Jews involved in the slave trade, and there still are Jews involved with the sex slave trade as I already knew, I fail to see how the actions of these individuals reflects on the entirety of the Jewish people.
I really don't know what to make of any of this nonsense except to repeat that while I don't doubt that there were Jews involved in the slave trade, and there still are Jews involved with the sex slave trade as I already knew, I fail to see how the actions of these individuals reflects on the entirety of the Jewish people.
It reflects entirely because the Jews are practicing hatred while at the same time crying out that they are victims of Arab hatred. It's the 21st century, and slavery still exists inside of Israel. The moral and ethical contradiction is awe inspiring. How can a nation and its people decry hatred when hatred is being perpetrated within its own borders by its own people? It's utter hypocrisy.
It would be like america blowing a gasket over the poppy fields in Afghanistan, when our own country is rampant with illegal drug trafficing...which results in dozens of murders a month right here in my own town. People would look at the USA like we were completely insane if we did that...because they know that our hands are just as dirty.
That's why there's not a great deal of sympathy for the plight of Israel in the world. How much of what is going on today have they worked to eliminate, and how much have they worked to perpetuate? They won't even retrun to the prescribed borders of their country for crying out loud. You don't think that pisses off millions of people?
Now, not all Jews participate in modern-day slavery. i recognize that. I wouldn't be surprised if there were Israeli's who didn't have it in for arabs, and simply wish that everyone could live peacefully. That seems completely reasonable. However, they are obviously the minority, because nothing has changed.
But I digress...lets get back to how the entire world owes Israel their first born or a kidney because they've been so terribly victimized.
Paint it however you like, Yosi. Whatever makes you feel like you're accomplishing some great good for the whole of Israel. If you need to label me a Nazi apologist (which clearly I'm not), knock yourself out. It would be just as easy for me to label you a whiny revisionist...but I won't stoop to your predictable level.
Wait...let me try to tow your line for a moment...ahem...
"Israel and all of the Jews of the world are as docile and benevolent as cattle. We as a people have never done anything wrong, or treated any others inhumanly. Anyone who calls us on our shit is obviously a nazi apologist or anti-semite"
Nope, can't do it. Sorry. I tried.
Talk about someone who needs a lesson in reading comprehension :rolleyes:. I didn't say that criticizing Jews or Israel is equal to being a Nazi apologist. I said, that by saying they Jews recieved justice by being slaughtered in the holocaust, is being a Nazi apologist.
How in anyway is that revisionist? You're just upset at being called out.
One can certainly criticize Israel or Jews, something that I have done myself in the past. But, if you say they got what they had coming in the Holocaust, which you did, than you are a Nazi apologist and sympathizer. There are no two ways about it.
you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane.
Man, you are so full of it. No one here is saying that Jews do no wrong or that Israel does no wrong, or that anyone critical of Israel is an anti-semite or a Nazi apologist. What Yosi was saying is that you are a Nazi apologist for suggesting that somehow the victims of the holocaust were reaping their cosmic just deserts for the crimes of their ancestors, which by the way you keep asserting without ever having shown any evidence. Again, Jews and Israel can do wrong, and people are allowed to critisize Israel. You just happen to have apologized for the holocaust, even if somehow you are unaware of it, and you were called on it, so don't try to portray yourself as the poor victim of the big bad Jewish conspiracy to quash all critisism with the label of anti-semitism.
Exactly.
you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane.
It reflects entirely because the Jews are practicing hatred while at the same time crying out that they are victims of Arab hatred. It's the 21st century, and slavery still exists inside of Israel. The moral and ethical contradiction is awe inspiring. How can a nation and its people decry hatred when hatred is being perpetrated within its own borders by its own people? It's utter hypocrisy.
It would be like america blowing a gasket over the poppy fields in Afghanistan, when our own country is rampant with illegal drug trafficing...which results in dozens of murders a month right here in my own town. People would look at the USA like we were completely insane if we did that...because they know that our hands are just as dirty.
That's why there's not a great deal of sympathy for the plight of Israel in the world. How much of what is going on today have they worked to eliminate, and how much have they worked to perpetuate? They won't even retrun to the prescribed borders of their country for crying out loud. You don't think that pisses off millions of people?
Now, not all Jews participate in modern-day slavery. i recognize that. I wouldn't be surprised if there were Israeli's who didn't have it in for arabs, and simply wish that everyone could live peacefully. That seems completely reasonable. However, they are obviously the minority, because nothing has changed.
But I digress...lets get back to how the entire world owes Israel their first born or a kidney because they've been so terribly victimized.
So last year there was this guy who used to stand outside of my school's medical school with a sign about how everyone is entitled to penile integrity. Basically this guy had had a botched circumcision as a baby and he had flipped out (understandably) and devoted his life to combating circumcision. My point is that I don't know what some Jew did to you in your childhood to cause you to have so much aggression towards Jews and the Jewish state, but it must have been pretty bad. You talk about the Jews practicing hatred. the "Jews" don't practice anything. it's an old joke now that for every two Jews there are three opinions. there is no single Jewish opinion on anything so for you to go around preaching about the evil done by the "Jews" is laughable. There is a sex slave trade in Israel. that is true and that is shameful. But it isn't like the state is running it and it isn't like it's popularly supported. Israel is a state like any other state. there are criminals there. they do bad things just like criminals all over the world whether they are Jewish or not. As for how much of the world's problems Israel has worked to alleviate I would remind you that Israel is a tiny country with few resources which are unfortunately tied up in defense spending since certain people can't seem to stop bombing Israeli buses. I would also point out that Israel does try to offer assistance when it can. for example it has a highly trained emergency response unit in the IDF which is sent all over the world in the wake of natural disasters to assist in the rescue efforts. As for how much damage Israel causes, we clearly aren't going to agree on that so there is no point in me wasting my time telling you that you're wrong. And I would end by pointing out that you insist that your remarks about Jews and Israel aren't anti-semitic and that people keep trying to suppress your opinion by labeling you that, but you don't help your case with blanket statements like "the Jews are practicing hatred."
It reflects entirely because the Jews are practicing hatred
They are? All Jews? Well, I guess I missed that lesson in Elementary school/synagogue/home/high school/Yeshiva...
And let me guess, Jews are the only ones practicing hatred, right? What a ridiculous statement. Some Jews hate, sure. But so do some Arabs, some French, some African Americans, some Germans, some Americans.
To say that all Jews are practicing hatred is a pretty grand generalization, that only shows your hatred towards Jews. You may say that you don't hate all Jews, but you sure have a funny way of showing it.
you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane.
I really don't know what to make of any of this nonsense except to repeat that while I don't doubt that there were Jews involved in the slave trade, and there still are Jews involved with the sex slave trade as I already knew, I fail to see how the actions of these individuals reflects on the entirety of the Jewish people.
You really need to stop making so much sense....your logic and intelligence does not belong anywhere near this thread. Stop bringing everybody down.
one foot in the door
the other foot in the gutter
sweet smell that they adore
I think I'd rather smother
-The Replacements-
I've been thinking about this for a few months, and I've come to a startling realization that is in and of itself not a conclusion, but more of an observation.
There appears to be a phenomenon going on in which an entire nation of people have adopted a victim mentality...a subconscious affect on the macro scale. What I'm suggesting is that because the people of Israel see themselves as victims, they will continue to be victimized.
Asking people who have a deep-seeded, generational, historical hatred of you to acknowledge a dark period in your history is the same as not being able to let it go. It happened. No one can fix it. But, unless you yourself were a prisoner during WWII, I can't muster a whole lot of sympathy for you...just as I can't muster a whole lot of sympathy for today's so-called African American because of slavery. Maybe if I knew some slaves, things would be different.
My point is, chooing to hang onto one period in the history of your people, and throwing it in the face of the world at every opportunity is just asking for it. It's the propogation of the victim mentality across an entire culture...ultimately leading to a social failure on the part of that culture.
Thing is, it's easier for any people who have been wronged to point the finger and cry about it then it is to accept that it happened, and move on. There's also a breezing over of a more universal concept...that of karma. Not saying that the holocaust was karmic comeuppance, but did the Jews ever really attone for their involvement in the slave trade?
Every act of wrong or evil that you do will be revisited upon you at some point...often with interest. I've seen it happen too many times to discount it. It's happened to me too many times to discount it.
The difference with African Americans is that they don't have to fear being enslaved again in the States. The Jews are surrounded by countries that would gladly repeat the Holocaust again. Bear in mind that Iran's leader wanted to obliterate Israel from the map, and doesn't even believe the Holocaust existed. So while they have a victim's mentality, it is for good reason. The U.S.'s support of Israel will save Israel. Europe appears to be quickly siding against Israel.
Just put yourself in the shoes of a Jew, and look around at your borders. With all of the hate that people have for you. With the ramping up of nuclear programs in Iran. With Hezbollah and Syria taking over Lebanon. See if you don't get defensive. It is not in their "heads," it is their reality. This hatred of Jews was around long before the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. That is not the reason. Israel's enemies don't want Palestine to have some land, they want Israel off the map. They couldn't care less about Palestine.
The Jews are not hanging their hat on the Holocaust. Throughout their whole history they have been enslaved and oppressed. Keep in mind they didn't even have a sovereign territory before the Holocaust. So it isn't like the Holocaust was the one bad thing that has happened to the Jews. They didn't even have a sovereign territory before the Israeli-Palestine conflict. So to blame the hatred of Israel on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is ludicrous. The only reason that conflict exists is because Israel's land was stolen from them in the first place.
Not an excuse, but just about every ethnic group participated in slave trades, including Africans.
I was just in israel and the west bank. i saw no victims. israelis are a proud and tough people living in tough neighborhood. the US has sold israel arms. so have the frenchm the british israel now builds its own tanks and planes and would wager they could make mince meat out of most european countires. as for iran, the eisenhower is coming. fuck em. they want a fight they are going to get one
In a way I agree with some of what you are saying. The Holocaust was a tragedy that no race or ethnicty on this earth deserves to suffer, but at some point youhave to move past it. So what if the Iranian government denounces the Holocaust. It has no impact on Israel or Jews across the globe. So what if they hold a conference to denounce the Holocaust. Again it has no bearing of Israel or the jews. By directing so much attention to the rantings of lunatics you only fuel their agenda. Israel is far from the helpless victim anymore. They have the ability to defend themselves from Iran if the situation should arise. As fasas Israel being surrounded by enemies that may be true but Israel has not done anything to alieviate that situation (their invasion of Lebannon is a perfect example). Where the government of Lebannon was anti-Syrian, pro-west and had no ill will toward Israel. Now that government is crumbling and in my belief it is due to Israel invasion of Lebannon. The people of that country have now seen their government as unwilling to protectthem from Israel and have fallen hook line and sinker for Hezbollah's propaganda and a new Pro-Syrian/Pro-Hezbollah movement is ttaking root.
I know eddie vedder dropped out of high school. perhaps that explains the unreal number of just plain stupid unread people on this board. read a fucking book or a paper dude. iran is denying a holocaust took place. morons.........not denouncing it
iran is denying a holocaust took place. morons.........not denouncing it
Whichever word is used, the reality is that this guy is an idiot and a mental case and no one really cares about what he says about the holocaust. He said it before, he'll say it again.... so what? Nothing new...
I know eddie vedder dropped out of high school. perhaps that explains the unreal number of just plain stupid unread people on this board. read a fucking book or a paper dude. iran is denying a holocaust took place. morons.........not denouncing it
Well if you want to go at it this way Iran is not denying the holocaust either. It's hosting a public conference where people are allowed to question the reality of the holocaust.
I was just in israel and the west bank. i saw no victims. israelis are a proud and tough people living in tough neighborhood. the US has sold israel arms. so have the frenchm the british israel now builds its own tanks and planes and would wager they could make mince meat out of most european countires. as for iran, the eisenhower is coming. fuck em. they want a fight they are going to get one
Now that's a violent behavior (saying "we can beat the hell out of anyone we want"). As for Iran wanting a fight... well yes. But giving them one would be one of the most and worst stupid things in modern history.
I was just in israel and the west bank. i saw no victims. israelis are a proud and tough people living in tough neighborhood. the US has sold israel arms. so have the frenchm the british israel now builds its own tanks and planes and would wager they could make mince meat out of most european countires. as for iran, the eisenhower is coming. fuck em. they want a fight they are going to get one
are you signing up to fight or just talking shit...?
I was just in israel and the west bank. i saw no victims. israelis are a proud and tough people living in tough neighborhood. the US has sold israel arms. so have the frenchm the british israel now builds its own tanks and planes and would wager they could make mince meat out of most european countires. as for iran, the eisenhower is coming. fuck em. they want a fight they are going to get one
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Comments
That is not what I am saying. I am not saying that when someone criticizes Israel or the Jews, they are a Nazi, or Nazi sympathizer. I am saying though, if one gives a rationale, or tries to justify the Holocaust, that is sympathizing with the Nazis.
I don't think he was trying to justify the holocaust. All he said was that so much focus is put on the sauffering of the Jews but no one seems to look at their participation in actions and/or events that caused close to or equal harm to others.
I don't believe that's what he said, but I guess we understand him differently. Even so, there are still better ways, and analogies to be made.
Wait...let me try to tow your line for a moment...ahem...
"Israel and all of the Jews of the world are as docile and benevolent as cattle. We as a people have never done anything wrong, or treated any others inhumanly. Anyone who calls us on our shit is obviously a nazi apologist or anti-semite"
Nope, can't do it. Sorry. I tried.
old music: http://www.myspace.com/slowloader
The concept is not beyond me, as I worked in criminal justice for years. It is simply not applicable to my discussion.
IF my ancestors were murderers or slave traders, and no one in my ancestry had attoned for that, then certainly I would expect that my lot inlife would be impacted. for all that I know, it could be the reason why any number of horrible things have happened to me in my life already. I have no problem with it, if it is my fate. But clearly you do not understand the concept of karma, for if you killed me, you would assume the same fate as my hypothetical ancestors.
old music: http://www.myspace.com/slowloader
Scary isn't it?....I wonder what the dumbass leader of Iran thinks happened to the tens of thousands of Muslims that disappeared in the former Yugoslavia. Does he think they went on a vacation? Denial of the Halocaust is straight up ignorance. If those movies of death camps being liberated are a hoax then the allies are really fucking good at special effects. Pretty hard to use makeup to make an actor 65 pounds and completely starving.
the other foot in the gutter
sweet smell that they adore
I think I'd rather smother
-The Replacements-
I disagree. And mammasan has got it exactly right. Do I care that millions of people were murdered for no other reason than that they were Jews in WWII? Of course I do. It is horrible (as I have said many times now) and unacceptable. But, it is no more horrible than when the Jews dehumanized others and sold them as property.
Were the Jews not treated as property in WWII...getting numbered tattoos in the concentration camps...like you or I might etch a number on a bicycle we own to help identify it later if it were stolen? Seems to me that the cycle of treating people as property and in an inhumane way was visited upon the Jews AS A PEOPLE. One cannot rule out the karmic implications.
I fully expect that America will continue to suffer untold consequences for its actions in the world for the last few hundred years too. Doesn't make it right, but at the same time I won't be the person sitting here defending my country as if it were some doe-eyed innocent bystander in the grand scheme of things.
old music: http://www.myspace.com/slowloader
Man, you are so full of it. No one here is saying that Jews do no wrong or that Israel does no wrong, or that anyone critical of Israel is an anti-semite or a Nazi apologist. What Yosi was saying is that you are a Nazi apologist for suggesting that somehow the victims of the holocaust were reaping their cosmic just deserts for the crimes of their ancestors, which by the way you keep asserting without ever having shown any evidence. Again, Jews and Israel can do wrong, and people are allowed to critisize Israel. You just happen to have apologized for the holocaust, even if somehow you are unaware of it, and you were called on it, so don't try to portray yourself as the poor victim of the big bad Jewish conspiracy to quash all critisism with the label of anti-semitism.
Oh Christ...now you want me to show you evidence of Jews participating in the slave trade?
Take a history class...or if you're a Jew, shame on you for a cheap attempt at evasion.
old music: http://www.myspace.com/slowloader
Well, we can easily extrapolate that if you want to turn this into an analysis of semantics
Not all Africans were slaves
Not all Slavs were slaves
Not all Jews were slaves
Not all Jews were involved in the holocaust
I am speaking directly to the nature of the act inwhich Jewish people participated and allowed in their society. They are not alone in this, but they are also not innocent. They did clearly participate. Though too much emphasis is placed on their involvement in African slave trade (they were ship owners, and not necessarilly barterers at that point), there is a significant historical record of their involvement in the process of dehumaizing people for some benefit...though clearly monetary gain is different than ethnic cleansing.
Even to this day, slavery exists in Israel (in the form of women who are forced into the sex trade), unless the Jerusalem Post is a Nazi rag?
You can find plenty of info on this on the web...though sifting through some pretty disgusting websites that look like real sources to find real sources can be daunting
old music: http://www.myspace.com/slowloader
I really don't know what to make of any of this nonsense except to repeat that while I don't doubt that there were Jews involved in the slave trade, and there still are Jews involved with the sex slave trade as I already knew, I fail to see how the actions of these individuals reflects on the entirety of the Jewish people.
It reflects entirely because the Jews are practicing hatred while at the same time crying out that they are victims of Arab hatred. It's the 21st century, and slavery still exists inside of Israel. The moral and ethical contradiction is awe inspiring. How can a nation and its people decry hatred when hatred is being perpetrated within its own borders by its own people? It's utter hypocrisy.
It would be like america blowing a gasket over the poppy fields in Afghanistan, when our own country is rampant with illegal drug trafficing...which results in dozens of murders a month right here in my own town. People would look at the USA like we were completely insane if we did that...because they know that our hands are just as dirty.
That's why there's not a great deal of sympathy for the plight of Israel in the world. How much of what is going on today have they worked to eliminate, and how much have they worked to perpetuate? They won't even retrun to the prescribed borders of their country for crying out loud. You don't think that pisses off millions of people?
Now, not all Jews participate in modern-day slavery. i recognize that. I wouldn't be surprised if there were Israeli's who didn't have it in for arabs, and simply wish that everyone could live peacefully. That seems completely reasonable. However, they are obviously the minority, because nothing has changed.
But I digress...lets get back to how the entire world owes Israel their first born or a kidney because they've been so terribly victimized.
old music: http://www.myspace.com/slowloader
Talk about someone who needs a lesson in reading comprehension :rolleyes:. I didn't say that criticizing Jews or Israel is equal to being a Nazi apologist. I said, that by saying they Jews recieved justice by being slaughtered in the holocaust, is being a Nazi apologist.
How in anyway is that revisionist? You're just upset at being called out.
One can certainly criticize Israel or Jews, something that I have done myself in the past. But, if you say they got what they had coming in the Holocaust, which you did, than you are a Nazi apologist and sympathizer. There are no two ways about it.
Exactly.
So last year there was this guy who used to stand outside of my school's medical school with a sign about how everyone is entitled to penile integrity. Basically this guy had had a botched circumcision as a baby and he had flipped out (understandably) and devoted his life to combating circumcision. My point is that I don't know what some Jew did to you in your childhood to cause you to have so much aggression towards Jews and the Jewish state, but it must have been pretty bad. You talk about the Jews practicing hatred. the "Jews" don't practice anything. it's an old joke now that for every two Jews there are three opinions. there is no single Jewish opinion on anything so for you to go around preaching about the evil done by the "Jews" is laughable. There is a sex slave trade in Israel. that is true and that is shameful. But it isn't like the state is running it and it isn't like it's popularly supported. Israel is a state like any other state. there are criminals there. they do bad things just like criminals all over the world whether they are Jewish or not. As for how much of the world's problems Israel has worked to alleviate I would remind you that Israel is a tiny country with few resources which are unfortunately tied up in defense spending since certain people can't seem to stop bombing Israeli buses. I would also point out that Israel does try to offer assistance when it can. for example it has a highly trained emergency response unit in the IDF which is sent all over the world in the wake of natural disasters to assist in the rescue efforts. As for how much damage Israel causes, we clearly aren't going to agree on that so there is no point in me wasting my time telling you that you're wrong. And I would end by pointing out that you insist that your remarks about Jews and Israel aren't anti-semitic and that people keep trying to suppress your opinion by labeling you that, but you don't help your case with blanket statements like "the Jews are practicing hatred."
They are? All Jews? Well, I guess I missed that lesson in Elementary school/synagogue/home/high school/Yeshiva...
And let me guess, Jews are the only ones practicing hatred, right? What a ridiculous statement. Some Jews hate, sure. But so do some Arabs, some French, some African Americans, some Germans, some Americans.
To say that all Jews are practicing hatred is a pretty grand generalization, that only shows your hatred towards Jews. You may say that you don't hate all Jews, but you sure have a funny way of showing it.
The slave trade was not relegated to any one religion or idealogy.....there were plenty of good Christian slave traders too.
the other foot in the gutter
sweet smell that they adore
I think I'd rather smother
-The Replacements-
You really need to stop making so much sense....your logic and intelligence does not belong anywhere near this thread. Stop bringing everybody down.
the other foot in the gutter
sweet smell that they adore
I think I'd rather smother
-The Replacements-
Haha. So true.
But since I love him, I want him to stay.
hehe, I love you too.
I know eddie vedder dropped out of high school. perhaps that explains the unreal number of just plain stupid unread people on this board. read a fucking book or a paper dude. iran is denying a holocaust took place. morons.........not denouncing it
:eek:
Whichever word is used, the reality is that this guy is an idiot and a mental case and no one really cares about what he says about the holocaust. He said it before, he'll say it again.... so what? Nothing new...
Well if you want to go at it this way Iran is not denying the holocaust either. It's hosting a public conference where people are allowed to question the reality of the holocaust.
Now that's a violent behavior (saying "we can beat the hell out of anyone we want"). As for Iran wanting a fight... well yes. But giving them one would be one of the most and worst stupid things in modern history.
are you signing up to fight or just talking shit...?
I say the latter...
i think the way they voted says what they want...as for no victims...
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=211301
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way