Maybe they won't FORCE people to get the card...but if they start putting them in driver's licenses, passports, or under your skin, they have a LOT of control over you, esp. once they start running our finances with it.
It will just keep progressing until everyone is convinced that it might as well just be implanted b/c if we lose it we're fucked....but then we WILL be fucked if the government ever decides we should be. It's sooooooo Orwellian it's not even funny. I don't understand how anyone can not have a problem with that.
Okay....uuhmmm...yeah, in Canada (BC only at this point, I think), the microchipped licenses will be optional. There is no talk of forcing people to get them...But being paranoid about something you don't KNOW will happen is a great way to make yourself crazy.
Criminals already have way easier access to all your personal data and finances if you go online without a firewall and major security measures on your computer. And knowing this, people still post identifying information that can cost them very dearly...
If you have nothing to hide, then you have nothing to worry about, right?
Okay....uuhmmm...yeah, in Canada (BC only at this point, I think), the microchipped licenses will be optional. There is no talk of forcing people to get them...But being paranoid about something you don't KNOW will happen is a great way to make yourself crazy.
Criminals already have way easier access to all your personal data and finances if you go online without a firewall and major security measures on your computer. And knowing this, people still post identifying information that can cost them very dearly...?
I am speculating, yes....
do you disagree with me about how it's a slippery slope tho? Why can't you look forward? It's not paranoia, it's exploring the possibilities for this technology. There is no one talking about it publicly (except all of those conspiracy crazies :rolleyes: ), but you don't think there are people looking for ways to exploit this?
people are always looking for ways to make life more convenient....this chip will make life way more convenient. Think of the scenario I posted above at the grocery store...even being dead set against the chip, I'd be tempted to get it if it meant I'd never have to stand in a lineup for a half hour again...
The main problem is that it is a totally unprecedented way to track people... Hackers can get into your personal info now, sure...but for the most part that is only a financial risk. what if that personal info included your exact fucking whereabouts at all times? Because someone could already track down your address, you don't care if they could stalk your physical movements on a computer screen?
you have to admit that it's not that big a stretch.
It's the size of a piece of rice.
They HAVE been doing this for years...well, not to babies (that I know of ), but Wal-Mart and many other stores put them in their products. The fucking LIBRARIES in my city put them in all of their books (this one scares me....I wonder how many of those books are on watch lists and being monitored), under the guise of simplifying/speeding up the rental procedure and being able to cut staff. Clubs in Europe have been asking people to have them injected voluntarily in order to speed up lineups to get in...and there was a report of the first baby being injected with one just a few weeks ago.
There is an entire section about this stuff on the Alex Jones sites....(infowar and prisonplanet).
it's way smaller than that... the chip is thin enough to fit into a syringe... they will inject it into you just like a shot...
and you're right, we won't submit to this kicking and screaming *we as in the people in general* we will literally be demanding it from them...
Oh for gosh sakes! I don't even know how to respond to this! What an outrage to compare the Haulocost to ANYTHING like this... you people are so paranoid about everything...land of the free? No way...Home of the brave - nope...why...because you are PARANOID...
It's fine to be concerned, but predicting the future? Pfffffttt....Some of the responses on here are WAY over the top...
And yes - this form of ID is being proposed for Canada - and our gov't is looking into it right now, as a matter of fact. It's a chip on a drivers' licence to make crossing into the US (and back into Canada) a lot easier and without the use of a passport. How this will work for non drivers and children, I don't know...but it seems pretty harmless. Plus - you don't HAVE to get one. And besides, you have to give up a whole lotta info about yourself when you apply for a passport, or (as someone said) fill out your income tax form.
So relax, have a drink, and listen to some Clash or Pearl Jam...
PS..I know that I probably spelled Haulocost wrong...nobody needs to bring it my attention...Thanks
people don't have a problem because they don't want to have a problem... they don't want to think that the officials that they (or their peers) put into offfice have anything but their best interests at heart, instead of basing every move on the almighty dollar...
people just want to sit at home and drink their beer and watch their tv and become numb to the world around them (which is exactly what they want us to do)... Have you ever wondered why our public education system is such shit?... Don't you think that if the Gov't WANTED it's children educated that they would give the schools the means to do that?.. The fact is we are as educated as the government wants us to be... They don't want us thinking too much about it, or to have the ability to think critically and then form those thoughts into coherent words for others to understand...
Why do you think they're trying to restrict who can access what on the internet and what can even be put on the internet?...
Or, don't think about any of this... Go back to your baseball game and your 6 pack and your american idol, and trust that your life is safely being managed by those trustworthy people in office...
I don't see any kind of government control as harmless...cause once it's law, they can just continue building on it. So yes, looking to the future where our rights are concerned is a must....
Maybe they won't FORCE people to get the card...but if they start putting them in driver's licenses, passports, or under your skin, they have a LOT of control over you, esp. once they start running our finances with it.
This is nothing new...I remember a HS teacher saying, in the mid-90's, that in the near future we'd be scanning a card right at the shelf to pay for something, then just walking out thru a scanner...no employees needed. You think Wal-Mart isn't diggin that idea?
It will just keep progressing until everyone is convinced that it might as well just be implanted b/c if we lose it we're fucked....but then we WILL be fucked if the government ever decides we should be. It's sooooooo Orwellian it's not even funny. I don't understand how anyone can not have a problem with that.
you haven't heard "talk" of any of this because you're not supposed to... who do you think is ultimately in charge of the media?.. you're not going to hear anything they don't want you to hear....
Okay....uuhmmm...yeah, in Canada (BC only at this point, I think), the microchipped licenses will be optional. There is no talk of forcing people to get them...But being paranoid about something you don't KNOW will happen is a great way to make yourself crazy.
Criminals already have way easier access to all your personal data and finances if you go online without a firewall and major security measures on your computer. And knowing this, people still post identifying information that can cost them very dearly...
If you have nothing to hide, then you have nothing to worry about, right?
Controversy and opposition
Arguments for and against identity cards are covered in detail under Identity document.
There is disagreement about whether the Real ID Act institutes a "national identification card" system.[8] The new law only sets forth national standards, but leaves the issuance of cards and the maintenance of databases in state hands; therefore, the Department of Homeland Security claims it is not a true "national ID" system. [2] Others[who?] argue that this is a trivial distinction, and that the new cards are in fact national ID cards, thanks to the uniform national standards created by the AAMVA and (especially) the linked databases.
[edit] State non-compliance
See also: National identification number
Portions of the Real ID Act pertaining to states were scheduled to take effect on May 11, 2008, three years after the law passed, but the deadline has been extended to December 31, 2009[9].
On January 25, 2007, a Resolution passed overwhelmingly in the Maine Legislature that refuses implementation of the Real ID Act in that State, and demands Congress repeal the law. Many Maine lawmakers believe the law does more harm than good, that it would be a bureaucratic nightmare to enforce, is threatening to individual privacy, makes citizens increasingly vulnerable to ID theft, and would cost Maine taxpayers at least $185 million in five years because of the massive unfunded federal mandates on all the states. The Resolution vote in the Maine House was 137-4 and in the Maine Senate unanimously, 34-0.
On February 16, 2007, Utah unanimously passed a resolution which opposes the REAL ID Act[10]. The resolution states that REAL ID is "in opposition to the Jeffersonian principles of individual liberty, free markets, and limited government." It further states that "the use of identification-based security cannot be justified as part of a 'layered' security system if the costs of the identification 'layer'--in dollars, lost privacy, and lost liberty--are greater than the security identification provides."
Arkansas, Colorado, Georgia, Hawaii, Idaho, Illinois, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Hampshire, North Dakota, South Carolina, and Washington have joined Maine in passing legislation opposing Real ID.[11][12][13][14] A similar bill is pending in Massachusetts.[15]
Other states have moved aggressively to upgrade their IDs since 9/11, and still others have staked decidedly pro-Real ID positions, such as California [16] and North Carolina.[17] In announcing the new regulations, Secretary of Homeland Security Michael Chertoff cited California, Alabama and North Dakota[18] as examples of states that had made progress in complying with Real ID.
you're a real hooker. im gonna slap you in public.
~Ron Burgundy
I am speculating, yes....
do you disagree with me about how it's a slippery slope tho? Why can't you look forward? It's not paranoia, it's exploring the possibilities for this technology. There is no one talking about it publicly (except all of those conspiracy crazies :rolleyes: ), but you don't think there are people looking for ways to exploit this?
people are always looking for ways to make life more convenient....this chip will make life way more convenient. Think of the scenario I posted above at the grocery store...even being dead set against the chip, I'd be tempted to get it if it meant I'd never have to stand in a lineup for a half hour again...
The main problem is that it is a totally unprecedented way to track people... Hackers can get into your personal info now, sure...but for the most part that is only a financial risk. what if that personal info included your exact fucking whereabouts at all times? Because someone could already track down your address, you don't care if they could stalk your physical movements on a computer screen?
you have to admit that it's not that big a stretch.
Absolutely it can be the start of something bigger -- but from what I'm seeing, it is currently not manditory to get this form of ID. And yes, with every technology there are people (government) looking for ways to exploit this. In Canada we have a Human Rights Council who generally gets up in arms about this sort of thing, to protect the citizen's rights and also a Protection of Privacy commission who weighs in on things and how they may interfere with a person's right to privacy.
However, I notice that in the US (and I'm not sure about Canada) that you have a program called "OnStar" on some of your vehicles. They have a GPS tracking device that shows where your car is...when actually, the OnStar people are tracking your every move. But this is optional as well.
And when you use your ATM card, you can be tracked based on you purchases...all those "club cards" from grocery stores - they're basically a tracking device as well...
I dunno....I just don't see this optional chip as a big deal. It's mainly for border security and it's not manditory (at this point)...But you raise some very good points...
Absolutely it can be the start of something bigger -- but from what I'm seeing, it is currently not manditory to get this form of ID. And yes, with every technology there are people (government) looking for ways to exploit this. In Canada we have a Human Rights Council who generally gets up in arms about this sort of thing, to protect the citizen's rights and also a Protection of Privacy commission who weighs in on things and how they may interfere with a person's right to privacy.
>>>>ok first, to be clear, i am referring to the USA... it is not currently manditory, but it soon will be in the United States... as far as canada is concerned, i'm not sure what is in the works... however, look into the proposed North American Union, which Bush recently signed behind the backs of the public at large and even congres, which will unite the US, Canada, and Mexico into a single entity, thus erasing the borders of each country, and REMOVING THE SOVEREIGNTY OF EACH COUNTRY... invalidating the constitution of the US and the mexican and canadian equivalents... and taking the peso, the US dollar and the canadian dollar out of circulation and replacing them with the Amero..
Sound Crazy?... one need look no further than the recently formed EUROPEAN UNION to see how this will work...
Keep in mind that this ID card is an INTERMEDIATE STEP, as they know the noone would go from right now to implanted RFID chips in one jump... they are easing us into it...
The first cards will ony have a scannble barcode with vital info on it, then later the cards will be equipped with the chip, and later the chip will be implanted...
However, I notice that in the US (and I'm not sure about Canada) that you have a program called "OnStar" on some of your vehicles. They have a GPS tracking device that shows where your car is...when actually, the OnStar people are tracking your every move. But this is optional as well.
Yes, on-star is optional, and people also pay for it voluntarily... it only tracks the movement of the car, however, not the people in them... This chip will be able to track your movements in your own home, inside a store, on the street, or wherever you feel like wandering...
And when you use your ATM card, you can be tracked based on you purchases...all those "club cards" from grocery stores - they're basically a tracking device as well...
>>>people still have the OPTION of using cash... when the RFID chip is implimented, there will be no need for paper currency, as all transactions will be used on the chip... and it will be sold to us as a convenience, but i find nothing convenient about our choices being taken from us...
I dunno....I just don't see this optional chip as a big deal. It's mainly for border security and it's not manditory (at this point)...But you raise some very good points...
>>>yes "borde security"... that is one of the main selling points used for this card... however, have you noticed that the US has not EVER done anything to really halt illegal immigration?... historically, when there gets to be "too many" illegals, general amnesty is granted to all, and then everything is cool fofr a few decades... Remember when Bush stated he will be building that huge wall between the US and Mexico?... Has that wall even began construction?... The US has no interest in stopping illegal immigration, if it did, it would... The stopping of immigration is in direct opposition to the "borderless North American community" that is in the works right now as i type...
These measures will not be forced upon us (as a soceity), we as a soceity will be so plagued with fear that is instilled in us by the media that we will welcome---no, we will DEMAND--- these measures be taken... Just look at the patriot act and other US legislation passed shortly after 9/11... a fearful soceity will eagerly give up its' rights for any measure of perceived "security", however the fear isn't even REAL--- the fear is placed in us ON PURPOSE, so that they can easily take away our rights...
[quote="EyesForTheSkies ...look into the proposed North American Union, which Bush recently signed behind the backs of the public at large and even congres, which will unite the US, Canada, and Mexico into a single entity, thus erasing the borders of each country, and REMOVING THE SOVEREIGNTY OF EACH COUNTRY... invalidating the constitution of the US and the mexican and canadian equivalents... and taking the peso, the US dollar and the canadian dollar out of circulation and replacing them with the Amero..
.[/quote"]
I am aware of these talks to which you refer...However, Canada is part of the British commonwealth, and at this point, it seems unlikely that Britain will want to relinquish it to the United States. And it would have to go to vote, and our current government is a minority, so it would have a heck of a tough time getting through parliament before it came to the people of Canada voting on such a ridiculous notion. Canada does not have an agreement with Britain the way Hong Kong did...and Britain isn't part of the EU as they were unwilling to give up their currency...
Suggesting Canada secede from Britain is high treason and honestly, I don't know how the Conservatives are not getting a vote of non-confidence...I think when Parliament is back in session and this comes up in the House, all hell will break loose and maybe the US will be stuck with Quebec, but the rest of Canada will remain Canada. Our opposition parties will be all over the Conservatives and this will be in the media very soon (probably in the Fall)...
And I don't think microchip insertion will happen in our lifetime...although, if you think about it from a medical point of view, it would certainly make triaging and treatment a whole lot easier...
I am aware of these talks to which you refer...However, Canada is part of the British commonwealth, and at this point, it seems unlikely that Britain will want to relinquish it to the United States. And it would have to go to vote, and our current government is a minority, so it would have a heck of a tough time getting through parliament before it came to the people of Canada voting on such a ridiculous notion. Canada does not have an agreement with Britain the way Hong Kong did...and Britain isn't part of the EU as they were unwilling to give up their currency...
Suggesting Canada secede from Britain is high treason and honestly, I don't know how the Conservatives are not getting a vote of non-confidence...I think when Parliament is back in session and this comes up in the House, all hell will break loose and maybe the US will be stuck with Quebec, but the rest of Canada will remain Canada. Our opposition parties will be all over the Conservatives and this will be in the media very soon (probably in the Fall)...
And I don't think microchip insertion will happen in our lifetime...although, if you think about it from a medical point of view, it would certainly make triaging and treatment a whole lot easier...
well, as i said, i don't live in canada, and my knowledge on the subject is predominantly limited to the US for now...
but, ---ok i'll tell you what--- make a note to yourself, mark down on your calander on August 1st of 2008 the words Real ID or whatever will make you remember this discussion, and at that time find out whether the cards have been implemented and mandated in the US... and if they have been, then promise me you'll look further into the topics covered in that clip i mentioned in the first post of this thread...
(by the way, did you watch that portion of the video that i pointed out?.. .)
do all people who work not have to have a social security card and or drivers license anyway?
What is so different about this that we don't already have??
Pretty much all of the fears you are describing about Real ID are already here and happining already..
You don't understand. George W Bush is the president. This is all part of the master plan. The master plan that has been passed down from generation to generation. The ties with Hitler were a documented part of the plan, that was the step to learn how to become a fascist regime. The Real ID is one of the final steps of the master plan. Beware, the end is near.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
You don't understand. George W Bush is the president. This is all part of the master plan. The master plan that has been passed down from generation to generation. The ties with Hitler were a documented part of the plan, that was the step to learn how to become a fascist regime. The Real ID is one of the final steps of the master plan. Beware, the end is near.
it's important that we know history and that we understand it from a variety of perspectives so that we will not repeat mistakes and become empathetic humans, but man it would be great if we didn't take every little thing and go... ok how can we make this into a grand conspiracy and sell some books and web subscriptions.
What ever happened to Occam's Razor?
My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
it's important that we know history and that we understand it from a variety of perspectives so that we will not repeat mistakes and become empathetic humans, but man it would be great if we didn't take every little thing and go... ok how can we make this into a grand conspiracy and sell some books and web subscriptions.
What ever happened to Occam's Razor?
The conspiracy of unchecked globalist capitalism gone awry is a VERY REAL one, my friend.
To disbelieve that oil politics and international development (read: EXPLOITAITON, impirialsim) are pretty much the ONLY concerns running this country at the moment is a bit foolish.
They would sell every right you had without blinking an eye if they knew they could get away with it, and if it paid well.
:(
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
Comments
Okay....uuhmmm...yeah, in Canada (BC only at this point, I think), the microchipped licenses will be optional. There is no talk of forcing people to get them...But being paranoid about something you don't KNOW will happen is a great way to make yourself crazy.
Criminals already have way easier access to all your personal data and finances if you go online without a firewall and major security measures on your computer. And knowing this, people still post identifying information that can cost them very dearly...
If you have nothing to hide, then you have nothing to worry about, right?
I am speculating, yes....
do you disagree with me about how it's a slippery slope tho? Why can't you look forward? It's not paranoia, it's exploring the possibilities for this technology. There is no one talking about it publicly (except all of those conspiracy crazies :rolleyes: ), but you don't think there are people looking for ways to exploit this?
people are always looking for ways to make life more convenient....this chip will make life way more convenient. Think of the scenario I posted above at the grocery store...even being dead set against the chip, I'd be tempted to get it if it meant I'd never have to stand in a lineup for a half hour again...
The main problem is that it is a totally unprecedented way to track people... Hackers can get into your personal info now, sure...but for the most part that is only a financial risk. what if that personal info included your exact fucking whereabouts at all times? Because someone could already track down your address, you don't care if they could stalk your physical movements on a computer screen?
you have to admit that it's not that big a stretch.
Sorry, but this statement always makes me want to gouge my eyes out with a spoon.
it's way smaller than that... the chip is thin enough to fit into a syringe... they will inject it into you just like a shot...
and you're right, we won't submit to this kicking and screaming *we as in the people in general* we will literally be demanding it from them...
www.zeitgeistmovie.com
SiGN THiS PETiTiON TO STOP THE REAL ID ACT!...
http://www.petitiononline.com/antiID/petition.html
http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com
then come back and tell me it's just "paranoia".
www.zeitgeistmovie.com
SiGN THiS PETiTiON TO STOP THE REAL ID ACT!...
http://www.petitiononline.com/antiID/petition.html
people just want to sit at home and drink their beer and watch their tv and become numb to the world around them (which is exactly what they want us to do)... Have you ever wondered why our public education system is such shit?... Don't you think that if the Gov't WANTED it's children educated that they would give the schools the means to do that?.. The fact is we are as educated as the government wants us to be... They don't want us thinking too much about it, or to have the ability to think critically and then form those thoughts into coherent words for others to understand...
Why do you think they're trying to restrict who can access what on the internet and what can even be put on the internet?...
Or, don't think about any of this... Go back to your baseball game and your 6 pack and your american idol, and trust that your life is safely being managed by those trustworthy people in office...
www.zeitgeistmovie.com
SiGN THiS PETiTiON TO STOP THE REAL ID ACT!...
http://www.petitiononline.com/antiID/petition.html
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
Which issue are you saying the left considers fear mongering?
I don't really consider myself left or right.
www.zeitgeistmovie.com
SiGN THiS PETiTiON TO STOP THE REAL ID ACT!...
http://www.petitiononline.com/antiID/petition.html
Controversy and opposition
Arguments for and against identity cards are covered in detail under Identity document.
There is disagreement about whether the Real ID Act institutes a "national identification card" system.[8] The new law only sets forth national standards, but leaves the issuance of cards and the maintenance of databases in state hands; therefore, the Department of Homeland Security claims it is not a true "national ID" system. [2] Others[who?] argue that this is a trivial distinction, and that the new cards are in fact national ID cards, thanks to the uniform national standards created by the AAMVA and (especially) the linked databases.
[edit] State non-compliance
See also: National identification number
Portions of the Real ID Act pertaining to states were scheduled to take effect on May 11, 2008, three years after the law passed, but the deadline has been extended to December 31, 2009[9].
On January 25, 2007, a Resolution passed overwhelmingly in the Maine Legislature that refuses implementation of the Real ID Act in that State, and demands Congress repeal the law. Many Maine lawmakers believe the law does more harm than good, that it would be a bureaucratic nightmare to enforce, is threatening to individual privacy, makes citizens increasingly vulnerable to ID theft, and would cost Maine taxpayers at least $185 million in five years because of the massive unfunded federal mandates on all the states. The Resolution vote in the Maine House was 137-4 and in the Maine Senate unanimously, 34-0.
On February 16, 2007, Utah unanimously passed a resolution which opposes the REAL ID Act[10]. The resolution states that REAL ID is "in opposition to the Jeffersonian principles of individual liberty, free markets, and limited government." It further states that "the use of identification-based security cannot be justified as part of a 'layered' security system if the costs of the identification 'layer'--in dollars, lost privacy, and lost liberty--are greater than the security identification provides."
Arkansas, Colorado, Georgia, Hawaii, Idaho, Illinois, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Hampshire, North Dakota, South Carolina, and Washington have joined Maine in passing legislation opposing Real ID.[11][12][13][14] A similar bill is pending in Massachusetts.[15]
Other states have moved aggressively to upgrade their IDs since 9/11, and still others have staked decidedly pro-Real ID positions, such as California [16] and North Carolina.[17] In announcing the new regulations, Secretary of Homeland Security Michael Chertoff cited California, Alabama and North Dakota[18] as examples of states that had made progress in complying with Real ID.
~Ron Burgundy
Absolutely it can be the start of something bigger -- but from what I'm seeing, it is currently not manditory to get this form of ID. And yes, with every technology there are people (government) looking for ways to exploit this. In Canada we have a Human Rights Council who generally gets up in arms about this sort of thing, to protect the citizen's rights and also a Protection of Privacy commission who weighs in on things and how they may interfere with a person's right to privacy.
However, I notice that in the US (and I'm not sure about Canada) that you have a program called "OnStar" on some of your vehicles. They have a GPS tracking device that shows where your car is...when actually, the OnStar people are tracking your every move. But this is optional as well.
And when you use your ATM card, you can be tracked based on you purchases...all those "club cards" from grocery stores - they're basically a tracking device as well...
I dunno....I just don't see this optional chip as a big deal. It's mainly for border security and it's not manditory (at this point)...But you raise some very good points...
>>>>ok first, to be clear, i am referring to the USA... it is not currently manditory, but it soon will be in the United States... as far as canada is concerned, i'm not sure what is in the works... however, look into the proposed North American Union, which Bush recently signed behind the backs of the public at large and even congres, which will unite the US, Canada, and Mexico into a single entity, thus erasing the borders of each country, and REMOVING THE SOVEREIGNTY OF EACH COUNTRY... invalidating the constitution of the US and the mexican and canadian equivalents... and taking the peso, the US dollar and the canadian dollar out of circulation and replacing them with the Amero..
Sound Crazy?... one need look no further than the recently formed EUROPEAN UNION to see how this will work...
Keep in mind that this ID card is an INTERMEDIATE STEP, as they know the noone would go from right now to implanted RFID chips in one jump... they are easing us into it...
The first cards will ony have a scannble barcode with vital info on it, then later the cards will be equipped with the chip, and later the chip will be implanted...
Yes, on-star is optional, and people also pay for it voluntarily... it only tracks the movement of the car, however, not the people in them... This chip will be able to track your movements in your own home, inside a store, on the street, or wherever you feel like wandering...
>>>people still have the OPTION of using cash... when the RFID chip is implimented, there will be no need for paper currency, as all transactions will be used on the chip... and it will be sold to us as a convenience, but i find nothing convenient about our choices being taken from us...
>>>yes "borde security"... that is one of the main selling points used for this card... however, have you noticed that the US has not EVER done anything to really halt illegal immigration?... historically, when there gets to be "too many" illegals, general amnesty is granted to all, and then everything is cool fofr a few decades... Remember when Bush stated he will be building that huge wall between the US and Mexico?... Has that wall even began construction?... The US has no interest in stopping illegal immigration, if it did, it would... The stopping of immigration is in direct opposition to the "borderless North American community" that is in the works right now as i type...
These measures will not be forced upon us (as a soceity), we as a soceity will be so plagued with fear that is instilled in us by the media that we will welcome---no, we will DEMAND--- these measures be taken... Just look at the patriot act and other US legislation passed shortly after 9/11... a fearful soceity will eagerly give up its' rights for any measure of perceived "security", however the fear isn't even REAL--- the fear is placed in us ON PURPOSE, so that they can easily take away our rights...
www.zeitgeistmovie.com
SiGN THiS PETiTiON TO STOP THE REAL ID ACT!...
http://www.petitiononline.com/antiID/petition.html
.[/quote"]
I am aware of these talks to which you refer...However, Canada is part of the British commonwealth, and at this point, it seems unlikely that Britain will want to relinquish it to the United States. And it would have to go to vote, and our current government is a minority, so it would have a heck of a tough time getting through parliament before it came to the people of Canada voting on such a ridiculous notion. Canada does not have an agreement with Britain the way Hong Kong did...and Britain isn't part of the EU as they were unwilling to give up their currency...
Suggesting Canada secede from Britain is high treason and honestly, I don't know how the Conservatives are not getting a vote of non-confidence...I think when Parliament is back in session and this comes up in the House, all hell will break loose and maybe the US will be stuck with Quebec, but the rest of Canada will remain Canada. Our opposition parties will be all over the Conservatives and this will be in the media very soon (probably in the Fall)...
And I don't think microchip insertion will happen in our lifetime...although, if you think about it from a medical point of view, it would certainly make triaging and treatment a whole lot easier...
well, as i said, i don't live in canada, and my knowledge on the subject is predominantly limited to the US for now...
but, ---ok i'll tell you what--- make a note to yourself, mark down on your calander on August 1st of 2008 the words Real ID or whatever will make you remember this discussion, and at that time find out whether the cards have been implemented and mandated in the US... and if they have been, then promise me you'll look further into the topics covered in that clip i mentioned in the first post of this thread...
(by the way, did you watch that portion of the video that i pointed out?.. .)
www.zeitgeistmovie.com
SiGN THiS PETiTiON TO STOP THE REAL ID ACT!...
http://www.petitiononline.com/antiID/petition.html
MORE PEOPLE NEED TO SiGN!....
For more information regarding the Real ID act, please check out Aaron Russo's Film entitled America: From FREEDOM to FASCISM at
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1656880303867390173
www.zeitgeistmovie.com
SiGN THiS PETiTiON TO STOP THE REAL ID ACT!...
http://www.petitiononline.com/antiID/petition.html
and why is that?..
www.zeitgeistmovie.com
SiGN THiS PETiTiON TO STOP THE REAL ID ACT!...
http://www.petitiononline.com/antiID/petition.html
What is so different about this that we don't already have??
Pretty much all of the fears you are describing about Real ID are already here and happining already..
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
it's important that we know history and that we understand it from a variety of perspectives so that we will not repeat mistakes and become empathetic humans, but man it would be great if we didn't take every little thing and go... ok how can we make this into a grand conspiracy and sell some books and web subscriptions.
What ever happened to Occam's Razor?
The conspiracy of unchecked globalist capitalism gone awry is a VERY REAL one, my friend.
To disbelieve that oil politics and international development (read: EXPLOITAITON, impirialsim) are pretty much the ONLY concerns running this country at the moment is a bit foolish.
They would sell every right you had without blinking an eye if they knew they could get away with it, and if it paid well.
:(
If I opened it now would you not understand?