Money as Debt

RolandTD20Kdrummer

To the people that just don't see this...man I feel really sad for them. Just sad.

"Thomas Edison made it plain in the following excerpt from The New York Times, December 6, 1921 issue ("Ford Sees Wealth In Muscle Shoals"). Here, the reporter is quoting Edison:

"That is to say, under the old way any time we wish to add to the national wealth we are compelled to add to the national debt.

"Now, that is what Henry Ford wants to prevent. He thinks it is stupid, and so do I, that for the loan of $30,000,000 of their own money the people of the United States should be compelled to pay $66,000,000 -- that is what it amounts to, with interest. People who will not turn a shovelful of dirt nor contribute a pound of material will collect more money from the United States than will the people who supply the material and do the work. That is the terrible thing about interest. In all our great bond issues the interest is always greater than the principal. All of the great public works cost more than twice the actual cost, on that account. Under the present system of doing business we simply add 120 to 150 per cent, to the stated cost.

"But here is the point: If our nation can issue a dollar bond, it can issue a dollar bill. The element that makes the bond good makes the bill good. The difference between the bond and the bill is that the bond lets the money brokers collect twice the amount of the bond and an additional 20 per cent, whereas the currency pays nobody but those who directly contribute to Muscle Shoals in some useful way.

" ... if the Government issues currency, it provides itself with enough money to increase the national wealth at Muscles Shoals without disturbing the business of the rest of the country. And in doing this it increases its income without adding a penny to its debt.

"It is absurd to say that our country can issue $30,000,000 in bonds and not $30,000,000 in currency. Both are promises to pay; but one promise fattens the usurer, and the other helps the people. If the currency issued by the Government were no good, then the bonds issued would be no good either. It is a terrible situation when the Government, to increase the national wealth, must go into debt and submit to ruinous interest charges at the hands of men who control the fictitious values of gold.

"Look at it another way. If the Government issues bonds, the brokers will sell them. The bonds will be negotiable; they will be considered as gilt edged paper. Why? Because the government is behind them, but who is behind the Government? The people. Therefore it is the people who constitute the basis of Government credit. Why then cannot the people have the benefit of their own gilt-edged credit by receiving non-interest bearing currency on Muscle Shoals, instead of the bankers receiving the benefit of the people's credit in interest-bearing bonds?"

RolandTD20Kdrummer

It's just fucking sad man...

Wake up little Susie...wake up..

BinFrog

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

It's just fucking sad man...

As is the fact that you only quote things and never have anything original or of note to say.

DriftingByTheStorm

BinFrog wrote:

As is the fact that you only quote things and never have anything original or of note to say.

"The next thing to saying a good thing yourself, is to quote one."
-Ralph Waldo Emerson

"A quotation at the right moment is like bread to the famished."
-Talmud

"I love quotations because it is a joy to find thoughts one might have, beautifully expressed with much authority by someone recognizably wiser than oneself."
-Marlene Dietrich

RolandTD20Kdrummer

BinFrog wrote:

As is the fact that you only quote things and never have anything original or of note to say.

And you?

dude wake up bro, look at the reality of it. It's usury against the people, and it's plain as day. What else is there to be said?

Start learning.

BinFrog

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

And you?

dude wake up bro, look at the reality of it. It's usury against the people, and it's plain as day. What else is there to be said?

Start learning.

I don't need you to tell me I need to wake up. That's my whole point with your ridiculous threads. Nobody needs you to tell them to wake up, because you're not providing anything thought-provoking enough to warrant such a reaction.

You know nothing about me.

Commy

BinFrog wrote:

I don't need you to tell me I need to wake up. That's my whole point with your ridiculous threads. Nobody needs you to tell them to wake up, because you're not providing anything thought-provoking enough to warrant such a reaction.

You know nothing about me.

I had no idea the power the FED had until I started reading these tinfoil hat conspiracy threads by drifting. I did some research and am seriously amazed.


For every US dollar in currency, someone somewhere owes that dollar to someone, most likely a bank.

Another way to put it-if all debts were paid tomorrow there would be no US dollars in circulation.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

BinFrog wrote:

I don't need you to tell me I need to wake up. That's my whole point with your ridiculous threads. Nobody needs you to tell them to wake up, because you're not providing anything thought-provoking enough to warrant such a reaction.

You know nothing about me.

I know enough to know you should know more about it. Just that fact that you call it ridiculous is the most telling part of all.

amongst other things....namely your personality and approach.

MichaelMcKevin

BinFrog wrote:

I don't claim to be an expert on it, nor do I post conspiracy websites and then laugh/smirk with an implied "Oh boy, here we go, I told you so" each and every time.

Calling everything a conspiracy theory is a copout. As soon as the word conspiracy theory comes out, it instantaneously implies that the theory is bullshit and anyone believing it is crazy (thank the media for that).

If they were all bullshit, the months/years of research and work put into them would have been given up on early in the process of making the movies. What they are is a group of organized FACTS, intentionally spoken with lots of conviction to subliminally influence you to want to get up and do something about the situation, and the facts alone should do exactly that.

Anon

Commy wrote:

I had no idea the power the FED had until I started reading these tinfoil hat conspiracy threads by drifting. I did some research and am seriously amazed.

There's two things i must give Drifting a pat on the back for.

His knowledge on anything to do with the Fed Res and his interpretation on the constitution. He debates these two issues in such a way that i can look at them with an open mind for a different view. He definitely knows his stuff.

Now if he could just help me get my head around the ridiculous rules on tipping (something i am still struggling with after a couple of years permanently living here), i will think he is the all time bees knees.

DriftingByTheStorm

Pj_Gurl wrote:

Now if he could just help me get my head around the ridiculous rules on tipping (something i am still struggling with after a couple of years permanently living here), i will think he is the all time bees knees.

Just MOVE THE DECIMAL and DOUBLE!

$25 Meal.
move decimal left
2.5
double
5

---

$5 Tip
add another dollar because you are cool
$6

SHIZAM

There.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

The basic concept is pretty obvious...ask yourself why a country is not allowed to print and control it's own money supply, and why people have to pay interest to have some privatised third party of proven thieving idiots do it?

That's about as obvious as it gets that something is not quite right....first glance. There's no conspiracy angle here...reality on it's face.

Not to mention the various past presidents, and endless numbers of economists that have all come out against it for reasons plain and obvious.

I mean fuck...how in denial do you have to be to not figure out something is not quite right here almost immediately?

It blows my mind.

and for those coming out bashing people for saying it...I have no idea how you manage to continue living day to day without darwinising yourself at a moments notice.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

http://www.endthefed.us/

Grace7

How can anyone know what to do w/their money if they don't understand the system?
How can you blindly trust in the system and select an equity share, a bond or a commodity??

This is why people are flipping out b/c their money disappeared from their 401k's or investment accounts and they never had a clue what a house of cards this is and that ignorance is a bit sad.

You have to know to listen for a whistle when a train's coming down the track.

peace

RolandTD20Kdrummer

Grand Theft America: "All Your Wealth Are Belong to Us"



"What the Bail-Out does is saddle the country and all its 'taxpayers' with new trillions of debt and makes it such that every 'taxpayer', regardless of how wise, cautious and frugal he may be, owes loads of Federal Reserve Notes (money) to the Federal Reserve Banking system. What will the 'taxpayers' receive for this new tax saddle? The answer is that they have received and will receive nothing. Almost all of the Bail-Out money goes to the corporations whose errand boys like Greenspan, Paulson, Bernanke, Dimon, Mozilo and Fuld carried out the debt trap that was set 9-10 years ago." ~ John Olagues, The Real Reason Behind the Bail-Out**



The Vampire State Collapses, Having Drained Its Host

Nearly a century ago, two audacious mechanisms were put into place to drain wealth and power from the American people and to funnel that wealth and power to an elite. Today's crisis has arisen because essentially all of our wealth and power has by now been taken from us, and the illusion of normalcy can no longer be maintained.

Symptoms of the collapse are everywhere and visible throughout nearly every facet of society, although the financial and economic elements have recently taken center stage. The level of debt in America is almost beyond belief; we have all seen the numbers and they are incomprehensible – far too large to make sense in human terms. The on-book national debt has passed ten trillion dollars. Unfunded federal liabilities, calculated as a business would calculate them, are in the neighborhood of one hundred trillion dollars. State, county, and local governments are also deep in debt, to the point where, for example, the "Governator" of California recently asked the feds for a $7 billion loan to cover the state's budget deficit, because it was unclear whether the state would be able to borrow enough money from investors to pay its bills. Yes, California , the world's seventh-largest economy all by itself, is near bankruptcy, although it did manage to sell $5 billion in bonds (more debt!) last week. Plenty of businesses and other organizations are also deep in debt; families and individuals are drowning in debt while employment and other measures of economic health are looking grim and getting worse. Almost half of Southern California house sales are now foreclosures. Banks, insurance companies, auto manufacturers, and other entities are absorbing multi-billion dollar, even trillion-dollar injections of cash (mostly from the government via the Federal Reserve – money created from thin air) and yet are still in danger of going under.

And that's just the economic bad news. Actually, it's just a partial listing of the visible economic bad news.

What on Earth has happened to this country? Speaking mostly of our intensifying economic nightmare, Sam Mathid sums it this way in a recent column:

"We expropriated and wasted not only such real wealth (production) as there has been in the present times, but we wasted the accumulated wealth of all the preceding generations, and finally (and most disgusting of all) we then went into vast debt and consumed the wealth of future generations.

"The whole lot, every last nickel, has either been doled out in the gutter of political corruption, or flushed down Wall Street's slimy drain; all abetted by a malign, mumbo-jumbo nonsense called Keynesian economics. Nowhere is there reference to prior criminality and stupidity on such a grand scale. There is no historical precedent."

-- Sam Mathid, It is Time"

cont'd