How the U.S. Just Got Schooled by a 'Rag-Tag' Neighborhood Army in Iraq

RolandTD20Kdrummer

http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/81147/

"What happened in Iraq this week was a beautiful lesson in the weird laws of guerrilla warfare. Unfortunately, it was the Americans who got schooled. Even now, people at my office are saying, "We won, right? Sadr told his men to give up, right?"

Wrong. Sadr won big. Iran won even bigger. Maliki, the Iraqi Army, Petraeus and Cheney lost."

PJ_Saluki

So what's your point?

lazymoon13

PJ_Saluki wrote:

So what's your point?

I guess that America sucks?

RolandTD20Kdrummer

PJ_Saluki wrote:

So what's your point?

You don't get it?

beachdweller

so what, we should be happy that we are one step closer to war with Iran?

this is not a big deal, we always lose in a guerrilla fight

LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun

yayy!!!! America has been defeated! those evil fucking americans are doomed!


wait, i live in America. fuck. why are you so giddy>?

beachdweller

we should attach ourselves, I bet there are more Al Qaeda in the U S then in Iraq, what are we waiting for...boom!

Commy

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/81147/

"What happened in Iraq this week was a beautiful lesson in the weird laws of guerrilla warfare. Unfortunately, it was the Americans who got schooled. Even now, people at my office are saying, "We won, right? Sadr told his men to give up, right?"

Wrong. Sadr won big. Iran won even bigger. Maliki, the Iraqi Army, Petraeus and Cheney lost."

When you have something to fight for, as opposed to following orders, you tend to have a little more motivation.

The CIA suggested bombing the "will" of the north vietnamese in the vietnam war, as it is crucial in war. That is the case in Iraq, who has the will to continue this terrible conflict? Its easier for the Iraqi's-they are defending their homes.

What is the US fighting for?

RolandTD20Kdrummer

Fight that war...

yeah...

all illusions based on control

beachdweller

Commy wrote:

When you have something to fight for, as opposed to following orders, you tend to have a little more motivation.

The CIA suggested bombing the "will" of the north vietnamese in the vietnam war, as it is crucial in war. That is the case in Iraq, who has the will to continue this terrible conflict? Its easier for the Iraqi's-they are defending their homes.

What is the US fighting for?

I don't think America is fighting for anything. Those in charge of America have some delusional ideaology that is not the best for our country, but it is for them.

Commy

beachdweller wrote:

I don't think America is fighting for anything. Those in charge of America have some delusional ideaology that is not the best for our country, but it is for them.

Right, this war has made billions for the private sector, but has done little for the nation of the US. In fact has cost us billions.

So get the fuck out, imo.

beachdweller

Commy wrote:

Right, this war has made billions for the private sector, but has done little for the nation of the US. In fact has cost us billions.

So get the fuck out, imo.

my problem with just leaving, is it's our fault, we own it, so we need to make a true effort to stabilize Iraq before leaving. Nothing that the Bush administratin has done has been to actually stabilize so we can leave IMO.

we need to get out of Italy, Germany, Japan, and South Korea also, that's a lot of money that could go toward education, health care, and our pockets.

Commy

beachdweller wrote:

my problem with just leaving, is it's our fault, we own it, so we need to make a true effort to stabilize Iraq before leaving. Nothing that the Bush administratin has done has been to actually stabilize so we can leave IMO.

we need to get out of Italy, Germany, Japan, and South Korea also, that's a lot of money that could go toward education, health care, and our pockets.

Was Hitler in charge of deciding Poland's fate then? Or France? You invade you fix it seems like a flawed logic to me.

beachdweller

Commy wrote:

Was Hitler in charge of deciding Poland's fate then? Or France? You invade you fix it seems like a flawed logic to me.

sorry, I don't see any parellel in using Hitler as an example. Hitler didn't give a shit, I do, but understand it may not matter.

Commy

beachdweller wrote:

sorry, I don't see any parellel in using Hitler as an example. Hitler didn't give a shit, I do, but understand it may not matter.

According to the UN 11-13 million people die every year from easily curable diseases or starvation, an american holocaust every year. Comparing the US gov't to nazism is fitting, given reality.

Why in the hell should they be the ones to "fix" anything?

LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun

yeah cuz the US is responsible for every living human on the planet and is to blame whenever anyone dies

Cosmo

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/81147/

"What happened in Iraq this week was a beautiful lesson in the weird laws of guerrilla warfare. Unfortunately, it was the Americans who got schooled. Even now, people at my office are saying, "We won, right? Sadr told his men to give up, right?"

Wrong. Sadr won big. Iran won even bigger. Maliki, the Iraqi Army, Petraeus and Cheney lost."

...
The U.S. will win every battle. Just like in Viet Nam... name one battle that was a military loss (note: Khe Sanh was tough, but the Marines on that hill top finally prevailed).
But, we see and understand that you can have victory in every battle and still lose the war.
...
In Iraq... is is the Shi'ites in charge, now. We put them there and were too stupid to see or understand that in a country where most of the people hate you... if you give them Democracy... they will elect people who hate you.
We cannot rely on or trust the Iraqi Armed forces. Why? Well, all you have to do is wonder... I wonder what happened to the Iraqi Republican Guard and the Fedayen militia that never took on the U.S. Army and Marines in the offensive of 2003. all you have to do is wonder... where are they now?
My guess... in Iraqi Security Forces... being trainned by American troops... to ultimately use their trainning and weaponry to kill American troops.
And al Sadr simply showed that he was still out there. Someone we should have been after in 2003. Now, it's too late. He has gotten too powerful and influential. He could be the next ayatollah. Killing him now will only make matters worse for our soldiers over there.
Thanx, President Bush... Vice-President Cheney... former Secretary Rumsfeld.

Commy

Cosmo wrote:

...
The U.S. will win every battle. Just like in Viet Nam... name one battle that was a military loss (note: Khe Sanh was tough, but the Marines on that hill top finally prevailed).
But, we see and understand that you can have victory in every battle and still lose the war.
...
In Iraq... is is the Shi'ites in charge, now. We put them there and were too stupid to see or understand that in a country where most of the people hate you... if you give them Democracy... they will elect people who hate you.
We cannot rely on or trust the Iraqi Armed forces. Why? Well, all you have to do is wonder... I wonder what happened to the Iraqi Republican Guard and the Fedayen militia that never took on the U.S. Army and Marines in the offensive of 2003. all you have to do is wonder... where are they now?
My guess... in Iraqi Security Forces... being trainned by American troops... to ultimately use their trainning and weaponry to kill American troops.
And al Sadr simply showed that he was still out there. Someone we should have been after in 2003. Now, it's too late. He has gotten too powerful and influential. He could be the next ayatollah. Killing him now will only make matters worse for our soldiers over there.
Thanx, President Bush... Vice-President Cheney... former Secretary Rumsfeld.

They've made billions from this war, I dont' think intelligence is the issue.

lazymoon13

Commy wrote:

According to the UN 11-13 million people die every year from easily curable diseases or starvation, an american holocaust every year. Comparing the US gov't to nazism is fitting, given reality.

Why in the hell should they be the ones to "fix" anything?

wow. so its the fault of the united states that 13 million people die or curable diseases and starvation? simply amazing.

lazymoon13

MrSmith wrote:

yeah cuz the US is responsible for every living human on the planet and is to blame whenever anyone dies

I'm glad I'm not the only one with some common sense on this board.

Abookamongstthemany

Commy wrote:

They've made billions from this war, I dont' think intelligence is the issue.

Exactly. Calling this admin and their decisions stupid is overlooking the real issue. Calculating and indifferent would be more apt.

Commy

lazymoon13 wrote:

wow. so its the fault of the united states that 13 million people die or curable diseases and starvation? simply amazing.

Research the WB or WTO, the arm is long.

lazymoon13

Commy wrote:

Research the WB or WTO, the arm is long.

research corrupt governments of the world, namely in africa where the majority of these 13 million deaths happen. you'll be surprised to find out that the US doesnt actually have anything to do with it.



(ps, dont use the onion as a source lol)

Commy

lazymoon13 wrote:

research corrupt governments of the world, namely in africa where the majority of these 13 million deaths happen. you'll be surprised to find out that the US doesnt actually have anything to do with it.



(ps, dont use the onion as a source lol)

That's the thing. The WB gives a loan to some corrupt gov't in Africa, and the leaders buy 10 BMW's and let the people starve. You literally have luxurious housing bordering on abject poverty. These 'leaders' take the loan, and let the people pay off the debt. The WB knows this and continues to operate, even putting in clauses that force the governments to pay the loan ahead of any other government programs. At the expense of health care and education , etc.

A corupt official takes the loan, and the country is expected to pay it back.

beachdweller

the World Bank is the spear of our economic imperialism, which is far worse than all our other foreign policy tools, except...wait for it...the Iraq war...imo of course

lazymoon13

Commy wrote:

That's the thing. The WB gives a loan to some corrupt gov't in Africa, and the leaders buy 10 BMW's and let the people starve. You literally have luxurious housing bordering on abject poverty. These 'leaders' take the loan, and let the people pay off the debt. The WB knows this and continues to operate, even putting in clauses that force the governments to pay the loan ahead of any other government programs. At the expense of health care and education , etc.

A corupt official takes the loan, and the country is expected to pay it back.

yet somehow you blame the US for 13 million deaths a year. you are placing blame on the wrong people. wake up

Commy

lazymoon13 wrote:

yet somehow you blame the US for 13 million deaths a year. you are placing blame on the wrong people. wake up

Who has access to the most resources on the planet?

seems that it is not the killing that is the problem, often it is the indifference of decent human beings

lazymoon13

Commy wrote:

Who has access to the most resources on the planet?

seems that it is not the killing that is the problem, often it is the indifference of decent human beings

so because America has access to the most resources on the planet, you blame America for 13 million deaths a year? you really cant see how stupid that sounds? you're one sick guy, I feel sorry for you.

Commy

lazymoon13 wrote:

so because America has access to the most resources on the planet, you blame America for 13 million deaths a year? you really cant see how stupid that sounds? you're one sick guy, I feel sorry for you.

The US runs the WB and IMF, they are international organizations run by the people with the most money invested, in this case the US. It called economic control, you should look it up.

Countries are forced to export primarily, which help big business, at the expense of local farmers and manufacturers. So in Colombia it became more profitable to grow coca than coffee, one mal affect of IMF "structural adjustments". They also use the lowest common demoninator when it comes to minimum wage and workers rights, these countries are even forced to end unions in some cases.

And this is run by big business, who's main base happens to be the United States. And in the 150 or so countries affected by the IMF and WB, the 11-13 million people die every year from easily curable diseases (read cheaply) or starvation.

Its not a stretch, it fairly obvious and straighforward.

PJ_Saluki

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

You don't get it?

No, I don't get your point, though your question did a lot to enlighten me. Are you pointing out that the Iraq army backed by the U.S. can't win a guerrilla war? Are you pointing out that Iran is backing multiple factions in the conflict? Are you pointing out that Iraq is turning into a civil war pitting Shia against Shia against Sunni? Honestly, what's your point? I guess if you're wondering if I "get" the fact that the Iraq conflict is a bad idea, I figured that out long before the first troops landed in that country. More than anything, though, I "get" the fact that you take some sort of sick satisfaction in the pain and suffering of the troops and citizens over in Iraq. Personally, I don't find it all that amusing. Got that?

RolandTD20Kdrummer

PJ_Saluki wrote:

No, I don't get your point, though your question did a lot to enlighten me. Are you pointing out that the Iraq army backed by the U.S. can't win a guerrilla war? Are you pointing out that Iran is backing multiple factions in the conflict? Are you pointing out that Iraq is turning into a civil war pitting Shia against Shia against Sunni? Honestly, what's your point? I guess if you're wondering if I "get" the fact that the Iraq conflict is a bad idea, I figured that out long before the first troops landed in that country. More than anything, though, I "get" the fact that you take some sort of sick satisfaction in the pain and suffering of the troops and citizens over in Iraq. Personally, I don't find it all that amusing. Got that?

fairly decent rant... a couple of bonus points for the "sick satisfaction plot" fabrication/accusation.

3.5/10....