The World According to Monsanto

El_Kabong

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

its partly because of the revolving door between the private sector and washington.

Look up the links on a guy like Donald Rumsfeld.

Rumsfeld, Searle, Monsanto

that should get you started.

one of monsanto's execs and their top lawyer both stepped down and took jobs at the fda when they were pushing their rbgh thru....

El_Kabong

godpt3 wrote:

How is this any different than the selective breeding of crops that's been done for thousands of years since the time of Gregor Mendel?

one difference being for thousands of years the crops weren't genetically designed to be sterile and not make any seeds after a single crop...

Kann

LaterDays wrote:

What about cell phones? Should we ban them too?

This is where the whole pro-gmo "benefit/risk" argument actually stops making sense. All you say seems sound but really isn't in reality :
1) we know (well at least we do in europe), from theory and observations, that gmo's, being better fitted for their environment, generally substitute to natural version in a few generations (1-2)
2) with plants, pollen, wind and insects, how would I know if what I believed to be natural crops are in fact interbred with gmos?
That's the first problem : with cell phones, I can choose not to use them if I fear for my brain, with gmo's I seldom have the choice and the more we use them the less I will have it.

My second problem is the whole "copyrighting" part. Start copyrighting genes (which, again, are easily transmittable from a gmo to a natural organism) and soon selected species will be owned by companies. This is, at least imo, a shitty idea.

I like the idea behind gmos, it would be interesting and probably useful to have them, especially since population numbers are not going down. But I'd like to see/read better constructed studies on their long-term effects before contaminating half of the world.

godpt3 wrote:

Of course, we could just let the Africans DIE, you know.

bad, bad argument.
And looking at what monsanto is doing, I doubt africans could afford gmos in the near future (tri therapy analogy comes to mind)

RolandTD20Kdrummer

Farmers in India are committing suicide in record numbers due to GMO crops wrecking their crops. You gotta buy Monsanto's chemicals to grow their junk. Who cares if the food is larger when it is less nutritious? No buckets of poison sprayed on my food please....no brainer...

It's a bad situation on many levels.

he still stands

This article is junk. No merit at all.

If you eat organic food, you are being manipulated by marketing and false premises. Not to mention paying a premium for something that has no additional nutritional value.

Organic foods have caused deaths in the past... GM foods have not.

theroachman

Yeah that proves it GMOs have not yet killed anyone so they must be good for you.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

he still stands wrote:

This article is junk. No merit at all.

If you eat organic food, you are being manipulated by marketing and false premises. Not to mention paying a premium for something that has no additional nutritional value.

Organic foods have caused deaths in the past... GM foods have not.

This sounds like a full load of bullshit. Show me how organic foods have killed people..

gimme a break...

even flow?

Wasn't GM foods suspected in the decline of the bee population. Where is that thread?

he still stands

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

This sounds like a full load of bullshit. Show me how organic foods have killed people..

gimme a break...

E Coli

More of why organic foods are okay for a niche market (to fulfill the demand created by unsavory marketing tactics) but not for mass production to feed the planet:

Replacing all GM crops with organics would cause BILLIONS to go hungry. Our planet could only feed 4 billion people if GM crops were replaced with organic crops because the yield would be cut in half. Millions of acres of forest would have to be cut down to produce the added acreage.

The increased nitrogen inefficiently broadcasted over the farm would cause MORE pollution to our lakes, rivers, and the Gulf of Mexico where the Mississippi would carry all the waste runoff. The current method of nitrogen fertilization (incorporation of anhydrous ammonia) results in the minimal amount of pollution.

Mind you I did study Agriculture Science in college in between drinking binges and weed naps. Not that I'm an expert but these are absolute facts that are taught by unbiased professors.

godpt3

he still stands wrote:

E Coli

exactly! The big recalls on lettuce and spinach for e coli last year were mostly of organic varieties.

godpt3

even flow? wrote:

Wasn't GM foods suspected in the decline of the bee population. Where is that thread?

A team led by scientists from the U.S. Department of Agriculture's Agricultural Research Service, Pennsylvania State University and Columbia University has found an association between colony collapse disorder in honey bees and a honey bee virus called Israeli acute paralysis virus, according to a paper published in the journal Science recently.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

he still stands wrote:

E Coli

More of why organic foods are okay for a niche market (to fulfill the demand created by unsavory marketing tactics) but not for mass production to feed the planet:

Replacing all GM crops with organics would cause BILLIONS to go hungry. Our planet could only feed 4 billion people if GM crops were replaced with organic crops because the yield would be cut in half. Millions of acres of forest would have to be cut down to produce the added acreage.

The increased nitrogen inefficiently broadcasted over the farm would cause MORE pollution to our lakes, rivers, and the Gulf of Mexico where the Mississippi would carry all the waste runoff. The current method of nitrogen fertilization (incorporation of anhydrous ammonia) results in the minimal amount of pollution.

Mind you I did study Agriculture Science in college in between drinking binges and weed naps. Not that I'm an expert but these are absolute facts that are taught by unbiased professors.

I don't buy that. Are you sure you don't work for Monsanto?

just a quick peek at what my govt has to say
http://dsp-psd.pwgsc.gc.ca/Collection-R/LoPBdP/BP/prb0029-e.htm
"It is now recognized that organic farming has a very positive impact on the environment world-wide. It differs from conventional farming in that it reduces the amount of pollutants released into the environment and improves the organic and physical fertility of the soil.(8) Some studies also show that fields where organic farming is practised have greater biological diversity."

As well...GMO foods don't taste as good. Spraying poison on stuff you eat is not a particularly great idea in any situation, or the environment in general.

godpt3

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

I don't buy that. Are you sure you don't work for Monsanto?

just a quick peek at what my govt has to say
http://dsp-psd.pwgsc.gc.ca/Collection-R/LoPBdP/BP/prb0029-e.htm
"It is now recognized that organic farming has a very positive impact on the environment world-wide. It differs from conventional farming in that it reduces the amount of pollutants released into the environment and improves the organic and physical fertility of the soil.(8) Some studies also show that fields where organic farming is practised have greater biological diversity."

As well...GMO foods don't taste as good. Spraying poison on stuff you eat is not a particularly great idea in any situation, or the environment in general.

Are you familiar with Norman Borlaug?

godpt3

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

just a quick peek at what my govt has to say

don't forget that every single case of mad cow disease in America has been directly linked to canada. I wouldn't exactly trust canadian agricultural policy.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

godpt3 wrote:

don't forget that every single case of mad cow disease in America has been directly linked to canada. I wouldn't exactly trust canadian agricultural policy.

What you just said makes no sense. Organic vegetable farming practices is somehow comparable to the beef industry?

That's some pretty wild conjecture you just came up with.

he still stands

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

I don't buy that. Are you sure you don't work for Monsanto?

just a quick peek at what my govt has to say
http://dsp-psd.pwgsc.gc.ca/Collection-R/LoPBdP/BP/prb0029-e.htm
"It is now recognized that organic farming has a very positive impact on the environment world-wide. It differs from conventional farming in that it reduces the amount of pollutants released into the environment and improves the organic and physical fertility of the soil.(8) Some studies also show that fields where organic farming is practised have greater biological diversity."

As well...GMO foods don't taste as good. Spraying poison on stuff you eat is not a particularly great idea in any situation, or the environment in general.

What exactly don't you buy? No I don't work for Monsanto. I have been involved with agriculture for my entire life and frankly am starting to get pissed at all the misconceptions and conspiracy theories. I would be happy to talk more about the subject.... but I've gotta catch a flight to SANTA CRUZ mofo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Peace

RolandTD20Kdrummer

he still stands wrote:

What exactly don't you buy? No I don't work for Monsanto. I have been involved with agriculture for my entire life and frankly am starting to get pissed at all the misconceptions and conspiracy theories. I would be happy to talk more about the subject.... but I've gotta catch a flight to SANTA CRUZ mofo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Peace

Your claim thats organic farming is worse for the environment.

No conspiracy, just one low moral company do their best to claim complete monopoly of the worlds food supply in the name of the almighty dollar above all else.

theroachman

godpt3 wrote:

don't forget that every single case of mad cow disease in America has been directly linked to canada. I wouldn't exactly trust canadian agricultural policy.

That is right. Plus the fact that Canada is 2nd only to the US in the acerage of GM coverage of its lands.

Also the mad cow disastor in England the only farms found not to have mad cow were organic farms.

theroachman

he still stands wrote:

What exactly don't you buy? No I don't work for Monsanto. I have been involved with agriculture for my entire life and frankly am starting to get pissed at all the misconceptions and conspiracy theories. I would be happy to talk more about the subject.... but I've gotta catch a flight to SANTA CRUZ mofo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Peace

Calling someone a MOFO and trying to cram poisens down our throats then saying peace?

Sounds like you do work for Monsonto or Dow?

theroachman

godpt3 wrote:

exactly! The big recalls on lettuce and spinach for e coli last year were mostly of organic varieties.

The lettuce problem in Cali was determaind to have been caused by the run off from the farm next door.


People who actually farm GMOs can not eat the food they grow because it is too toxic. A fact that the USDA employee conventiantly left off.

(see my thread from yesterday)