yes we might fall into recession. (or we might not) just look at what has happened throughout the history of past recessions. it lead to decades of growth. the US economy is very resilient and this country is full of brilliant people.
I think that is where you differ from a lot of people on this board.
Numbers tell one story. Human condition tells another.
I'm not attacking your philosphies just pointing out that numbers do not always tell the whole story. Here's an analogy... Have you ever seen....lets say...a family that has a lot of $$. Wealthy as all hell. But the kids are treated like and end up being miserable, dirty little messes....and the parents don't seem to give a shit about them. Kids...maybe...end up in foster care. Maybe their parents are medically and/or educationally negligent. Money does not tell a whole story.
There are many ways that our American way of life...as we know it...can and quite possibly will be threatened in years to come. I hope the future generations have many of the things that most of us take for granted.
And they do invariably turn to violence. But during the 60's, Martin Luthar King was really amazing. Anytime the black minority would respond with violence they were often killed, and attacks againt them were stepped up, and people saw that on TV. His message of nonviolence, did 2 things-showed the rest of the country a group of citizens sitting peacefully and getting beaten by the authoritties-the public immediately sided with the oppressed. Also, the peaceful protesters were not breaking any laws, they were using a constitutional right to peaceably assemble.
So violence will give the authorities a right to use force, where they tend to have the uppper hand. Peaceful protesting, its all we got-but, its stronger than any army, really. If we don't work they don't have a country. That's the bottom line.
i'm quite Familiar with Dr. King. i have studied the man and the movement extensively. And again, i agree with you. His is truly the best way. The question i have for you is this. Who is going to lead this non-violent revolution of sorts? Hillary Clinton? Any one of the republican presidential candidates we have now? Look around the political landscape right now. Young people are tyring to go about this the right way. They are getting involved in record numbers. If it doesn't work out the way they hope, then what? Non-violent social upheaval is indeed very powerful. Who's going to lead it?
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
i'm quite Familiar with Dr. King. i have studied the man and the movement extensively. And again, i agree with you. His is truly the best way. The question i have for you is this. Who is going to lead this non-violent revolution of sorts? Hillary Clinton? Any one of the republican presidential candidates we have now? Look around the political landscape right now. Young people are tyring to go about this the right way. They are getting involved in record numbers. If it doesn't work out the way they hope, then what? Non-violent social upheaval is indeed very powerful. Who's going to lead it?
Good question. Its going to take someone of MLK's charisma, with the right ideas. No one from the establishment imo has any chance of success, we need someone who understandes the working class, and so I think the best candidate should come from the working class. But as you know, this won't be done with elections and primaries and so on, it will be a sudden surge that will gradually spread accross the nation...untill we have a nationwide general strike, or at least enough local general strikes to shut down the economy. AS to who is going to rise up, I think that is a very good question.
Good question. Its going to take someone of MLK's charisma, with the right ideas. No one from the establishment imo has any chance of success, we need someone who understandes the working class, and so I think the best candidate should come from the working class. But as you know, this won't be done with elections and primaries and so on, it will be a sudden surge that will gradually spread accross the nation...untill we have a nationwide general strike, or at least enough local general strikes to shut down the economy. AS to who is going to rise up, I think that is a very good question.
i fear we are past the point of realizing the effectiveness of any kind of strike, labor or otherwise. If i don't go to work tomorrow, do you think my boss really cares? There are plenty of people HOPING i don't go to work tomorrow. People struggling to feed there families are in no position to strike. The kind of organized effort, the raw numbers this would take is absolutely unachievable. There are plenty of reserves waiting to take up the slack. Are you familiar with Frantz Fanon and his book "The Wretched of the Earth"? We are approaching that point, IMO.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
I think that is where you differ from a lot of people on this board.
Numbers tell one story. Human condition tells another.
I'm not attacking your philosphies just pointing out that numbers do not always tell the whole story. Here's an analogy... Have you ever seen....lets say...a family that has a lot of $$. Wealthy as all hell. But the kids are treated like and end up being miserable, dirty little messes....and the parents don't seem to give a shit about them. Kids...maybe...end up in foster care. Maybe their parents are medically and/or educationally negligent. Money does not tell a whole story.
There are many ways that our American way of life...as we know it...can and quite possibly will be threatened in years to come. I hope the future generations have many of the things that most of us take for granted.
a sound mind..and peacefulness of an individual cant and will never be taken from those who know its true meaning and true value. this country is not great because its a super power..
i'm quite Familiar with Dr. King. i have studied the man and the movement extensively. And again, i agree with you. His is truly the best way. The question i have for you is this. Who is going to lead this non-violent revolution of sorts? Hillary Clinton? Any one of the republican presidential candidates we have now? Look around the political landscape right now. Young people are tyring to go about this the right way. They are getting involved in record numbers. If it doesn't work out the way they hope, then what? Non-violent social upheaval is indeed very powerful. Who's going to lead it?
Next question - will your government consider this leader a terrorist and arrest/detain them before they can build a following? This is exactly why the patriot act and loss of habeas corpus could be considered a death knell for american democracy. The constitutional right to peaceably assemble Commy speaks of is already compromised. The biggest issue is the apathy of the population. If a movement begins, and people don't look past the msm, they will not get a proper idea of why there is a movement at all. Anyone going against the establishment will be painted as radicals, discredited and made an example of...It will be hard for anyone to gain momentum with the govt controlled media working against them...
i fear we are past the point of realizing the effectiveness of any kind of strike, labor or otherwise. If i don't go to work tomorrow, do you think my boss really cares? There are plenty of people HOPING i don't go to work tomorrow. People struggling to feed there families are in no position to strike. The kind of organized effort, the raw numbers this would take is absolutely unachievable. There are plenty of reserves waiting to take up the slack. Are you familiar with Frantz Fanon and his book "The Wretched of the Earth"? We are approaching that point, IMO.
I haven't heard of this book.
But its easy to lose hope. I think its impotant to remember where we came from. The labor movement in the early 1900's was kept in place by force-they didn't even have the right TO strike. And think of the 1920's and the Depression, how more people were out of workd than not, and how much they stilll accomplished. IT really is amazing. they didn't even have the means of communication that we have today, and still got overtime, workers comp, minimum wage, safe work environments.
There are some cultural differences between then and now, that's true. But this callous, desensitized group of selfish citizens have the potential to become warriors in this class war. The elite are fighting it every day, and I think when enough of the middle and lower class even realize there is a class war we will see progress.
But its easy to lose hope. I think its impotant to remember where we came from. The labor movement in the early 1900's was kept in place by force-they didn't even have the right TO strike. And think of the 1920's and the Depression, how more people were out of workd than not, and how much they stilll accomplished. IT really is amazing. they didn't even have the means of communication that we have today, and still got overtime, workers comp, minimum wage, safe work environments.
There are some cultural differences between then and now, that's true. But this callous, desensitized group of selfish citizens have the potential to become warriors in this class war. The elite are fighting it every day, and I think when enough of the middle and lower class even realize there is a class war we will see progress.
Check out "The Wretched of the Earth". Its relatively short and quite fascinating. i think you would enjoy it. i firmly believe there is a "lumpen proletariat" devloping in the United States. Fanon describes this "lumpen proletariat" as the only truly revolutionary class. They are not the working class. They are the urban unemployed and unemployable. The proletariat are not revolutionary for they have to much to lose. Their job may suck, but at least they have one and cannot afford to risk it. The "lumpen proletariat" on the other hand have absolutely nothing and, therefore, nothing to lose. For them, violent revolution becomes an attractive and, according to Fanon, sole means of survival.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
I don't think it's like the Fall of Rome... more like the demise of the Great British Empire. Remember, it wasn't all that long ago when Brittania ruled the waves. This isn't to say that England is gone... she is just not the same as she used to be.
That's where I see us going. We are the imperialists of today, going all over the world and trying to spread our way of living. Not that it's a bad thing... I'm sure the Romans couldn't figure out how all those people hated them because, after all, Rome was spreading technology and paved roads, culture, art and civilization to the filthy scum in those loser third world countries.
What is probably going to happen is China emerging as the economic power in the world. We will still have our military... but, we will not have sufficient fuel supplies to wage a war with a country of 3 billion. We should have thought about this when we shipped off all of our manufacturing jobs to a Communist Country in exchange for higher stock prices and cheaper household electronics
We'll get by... but, our middle class will be gone and we will have a giant lower (working class) in service or retail jobs... a small, highly skilled manufacturing sector and a tiny uber-rich class. We will be the next former super-power... the next England.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
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.....Well, hell yeah if this bullshit of a government/administration continues.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Comments
I think that is where you differ from a lot of people on this board.
Numbers tell one story. Human condition tells another.
I'm not attacking your philosphies just pointing out that numbers do not always tell the whole story. Here's an analogy... Have you ever seen....lets say...a family that has a lot of $$. Wealthy as all hell. But the kids are treated like and end up being miserable, dirty little messes....and the parents don't seem to give a shit about them. Kids...maybe...end up in foster care. Maybe their parents are medically and/or educationally negligent. Money does not tell a whole story.
There are many ways that our American way of life...as we know it...can and quite possibly will be threatened in years to come. I hope the future generations have many of the things that most of us take for granted.
i'm quite Familiar with Dr. King. i have studied the man and the movement extensively. And again, i agree with you. His is truly the best way. The question i have for you is this. Who is going to lead this non-violent revolution of sorts? Hillary Clinton? Any one of the republican presidential candidates we have now? Look around the political landscape right now. Young people are tyring to go about this the right way. They are getting involved in record numbers. If it doesn't work out the way they hope, then what? Non-violent social upheaval is indeed very powerful. Who's going to lead it?
Good question. Its going to take someone of MLK's charisma, with the right ideas. No one from the establishment imo has any chance of success, we need someone who understandes the working class, and so I think the best candidate should come from the working class. But as you know, this won't be done with elections and primaries and so on, it will be a sudden surge that will gradually spread accross the nation...untill we have a nationwide general strike, or at least enough local general strikes to shut down the economy. AS to who is going to rise up, I think that is a very good question.
i fear we are past the point of realizing the effectiveness of any kind of strike, labor or otherwise. If i don't go to work tomorrow, do you think my boss really cares? There are plenty of people HOPING i don't go to work tomorrow. People struggling to feed there families are in no position to strike. The kind of organized effort, the raw numbers this would take is absolutely unachievable. There are plenty of reserves waiting to take up the slack. Are you familiar with Frantz Fanon and his book "The Wretched of the Earth"? We are approaching that point, IMO.
a sound mind..and peacefulness of an individual cant and will never be taken from those who know its true meaning and true value. this country is not great because its a super power..
Next question - will your government consider this leader a terrorist and arrest/detain them before they can build a following? This is exactly why the patriot act and loss of habeas corpus could be considered a death knell for american democracy. The constitutional right to peaceably assemble Commy speaks of is already compromised. The biggest issue is the apathy of the population. If a movement begins, and people don't look past the msm, they will not get a proper idea of why there is a movement at all. Anyone going against the establishment will be painted as radicals, discredited and made an example of...It will be hard for anyone to gain momentum with the govt controlled media working against them...
I haven't heard of this book.
But its easy to lose hope. I think its impotant to remember where we came from. The labor movement in the early 1900's was kept in place by force-they didn't even have the right TO strike. And think of the 1920's and the Depression, how more people were out of workd than not, and how much they stilll accomplished. IT really is amazing. they didn't even have the means of communication that we have today, and still got overtime, workers comp, minimum wage, safe work environments.
There are some cultural differences between then and now, that's true. But this callous, desensitized group of selfish citizens have the potential to become warriors in this class war. The elite are fighting it every day, and I think when enough of the middle and lower class even realize there is a class war we will see progress.
Check out "The Wretched of the Earth". Its relatively short and quite fascinating. i think you would enjoy it. i firmly believe there is a "lumpen proletariat" devloping in the United States. Fanon describes this "lumpen proletariat" as the only truly revolutionary class. They are not the working class. They are the urban unemployed and unemployable. The proletariat are not revolutionary for they have to much to lose. Their job may suck, but at least they have one and cannot afford to risk it. The "lumpen proletariat" on the other hand have absolutely nothing and, therefore, nothing to lose. For them, violent revolution becomes an attractive and, according to Fanon, sole means of survival.
That's where I see us going. We are the imperialists of today, going all over the world and trying to spread our way of living. Not that it's a bad thing... I'm sure the Romans couldn't figure out how all those people hated them because, after all, Rome was spreading technology and paved roads, culture, art and civilization to the filthy scum in those loser third world countries.
What is probably going to happen is China emerging as the economic power in the world. We will still have our military... but, we will not have sufficient fuel supplies to wage a war with a country of 3 billion. We should have thought about this when we shipped off all of our manufacturing jobs to a Communist Country in exchange for higher stock prices and cheaper household electronics
We'll get by... but, our middle class will be gone and we will have a giant lower (working class) in service or retail jobs... a small, highly skilled manufacturing sector and a tiny uber-rich class. We will be the next former super-power... the next England.
Hail, Hail!!!
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)