Carter says Israel has arsenal of 150 nuclear weapons

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Comments

  • kh65kh65 Posts: 946
    That's like saying Lou Pinella is the greatest manager the Devil Rays ever had.

    RR handed out bandaids while we continued to bleed internally. If the Soviet Union wasn't "bleeding out" faster than the US at the time due to massive military overspending (RR only glorious moment " tear down that wall Mr Gorbachev...") RR is just another in a long line of military overspending presidents we've had.

    I never said he was perfect. I'm just saying he is probably the best since post WWII. He gave this country a sense of itself after the nightmare of the fuckin hippies of the 60's and Vietnam. People felt good about being Americans again.
    "If you're not living on the edge you're taking up too much room."

    Gambling=a taxation on stupidity.

    Remember, you can walk anywhere, as long as you have the time.

    http://www.ryanmontbleauband.com/

    http://www.myspace.com/jessedee
  • fuckfuck Posts: 4,069
    kh65 wrote:
    I really don't know where you nut jobs get your info. I refuse to debate this with you because you see conspiracies everywhere. You really don't have any sense of history or economics. You really don't step back and look at anything objectively. You already have your mind made up and aren't open to anything else.
    I agree. Like all those bitches who try to bring up the Iran-Contra scandal or any other scandal Reagan was involved in. It's not like they have any PROOF........

    I hope your sarcasm detector is on.............
  • kh65kh65 Posts: 946
    I agree. Like all those bitches who try to bring up the Iran-Contra scandal or any other scandal Reagan was involved in. It's not like they have any PROOF........

    I hope your sarcasm detector is on.............

    And Bill Clinton is a saint. Let me ask you this. If ANY Rep. had treated women the way Bill has what would be the result? Because the Feminazis could use him for their means they didn't say shit!
    "If you're not living on the edge you're taking up too much room."

    Gambling=a taxation on stupidity.

    Remember, you can walk anywhere, as long as you have the time.

    http://www.ryanmontbleauband.com/

    http://www.myspace.com/jessedee
  • fuckfuck Posts: 4,069
    kh65 wrote:
    And Bill Clinton is a saint. Let me ask you this. If ANY Rep. had treated women the way Bill has what would be the result? Because the Feminazis could use him for their means they didn't say shit!
    how is this even relevant?
  • NMyTreeNMyTree Posts: 2,374
    kh65 wrote:
    I really don't know where you nut jobs get your info. I refuse to debate this with you because you see conspiracies everywhere. You really don't have any sense of history or economics. You really don't step back and look at anything objectively. You already have your mind made up and aren't open to anything else.


    That's Mr. Nut Job, to you.

    And....thank you. When someone like you objects so wildly, I know I'm on the right track.

    Oh, and exactly what history and economics are you refering to?
  • NMyTreeNMyTree Posts: 2,374
    how is this even relevant?

    It's not.

    Just a misdirection and distraction.
  • OpenOpen Posts: 792
    kh65 wrote:
    And Bill Clinton is a saint. Let me ask you this. If ANY Rep. had treated women the way Bill has what would be the result? Because the Feminazis could use him for their means they didn't say shit!


    HAHAHHA...the Reps are great with women; if you're a teen page you better watch your back.
  • kh65kh65 Posts: 946
    Open wrote:
    HAHAHHA...the Reps are great with women; if you're a teen page you better watch your back.
    I won't defend their actions. However, you didn't answer the question. I asked if a Rep. had acted like B.C. what would have happened to them. They probably would have been publicly castrated. I just want you to think of the double standard.
    "If you're not living on the edge you're taking up too much room."

    Gambling=a taxation on stupidity.

    Remember, you can walk anywhere, as long as you have the time.

    http://www.ryanmontbleauband.com/

    http://www.myspace.com/jessedee
  • fuckfuck Posts: 4,069
    kh65 wrote:
    I won't defend their actions. However, you didn't answer the question. I asked if a Rep. had acted like B.C. what would have happened to them. They probably would have been publicly castrated. I just want you to think of the double standard.
    You didn't answer my question either.
  • OpenOpen Posts: 792
    kh65 wrote:
    I won't defend their actions. However, you didn't answer the question. I asked if a Rep. had acted like B.C. what would have happened to them. They probably would have been publicly castrated. I just want you to think of the double standard.


    If you want to start a new thread on that subject go ahead and i will comment on it. This thread is about Carter's statements about Israel. (i know i contributed to it going off topic, but lets get it back on topic)
  • mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
    kh65 wrote:
    Because the Iranians weren't going to let him have one moment of glory and they were scarred shitless of RR. He wasn't going to take any crap and they knew it. All you have to do is remember the time before the election in '80 to know what the American people thought of him. He's a nightmare.


    No it's because the Reagan administration was willing to sell them arms, through Israel, in exchange for the release of the hostages.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • polaris wrote:
    as long as there are still suicide bombings and rocks being thrown by palestinians - it's all that is required for the world to ignore the oppressive regime that exists in israel ...


    People just need to figure out what's really happening there. that's all.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • kh65 wrote:
    Jimmy Carter needs to Shut the Fuck UP! He was a failed president why would anyone listen to him.

    http://firstfriday.wordpress.com

    Ok Mr. Bill O'reilly...
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • wwfairfieldwwfairfield Posts: 216
    i remember the day the iranian hostages were taken. and i find it an interesting moment in history that carter was thwarted in his attempts to secure their release and yet the reagan administration managed it with relative ease.


    your sense of history is off and wrong


    first of all .. they weren't hostages they were "detainees " or "unlawful enemy combatants"

    secondly ... carter arraigned the release which occurred at the same time reagan was getting his retarded ass sworn in
  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,117
    kh65 wrote:
    RR was the greatest president of my lifetime.


    why was he the greatest president of your lifetime?
  • SilverSeedSilverSeed Posts: 336
    your sense of history is off and wrong


    first of all .. they weren't hostages they were "detainees " or "unlawful enemy combatants"

    secondly ... carter arraigned the release which occurred at the same time reagan was getting his retarded ass sworn in

    Haha... I had a history of Econ course in college and we had a whole section on Reagan's economic policies and overall presidency. Douche to the max...
    When Jesus said "Love your enemies" he probably didn't mean kill them...

    "Sometimes I think I'd be better off dead. No, wait, not me, you." -Deep Toughts, Jack Handy
  • kh65kh65 Posts: 946
    SilverSeed wrote:
    Haha... I had a history of Econ course in college and we had a whole section on Reagan's economic policies and overall presidency. Douche to the max...
    How was college in the U.S.S.R.? (besides cold)
    "If you're not living on the edge you're taking up too much room."

    Gambling=a taxation on stupidity.

    Remember, you can walk anywhere, as long as you have the time.

    http://www.ryanmontbleauband.com/

    http://www.myspace.com/jessedee
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    kh65 wrote:
    RR was the greatest president of my lifetime.

    Tell that to the people of Latin America.
    As a matter of fact, it was on RR's watch that the U.S was charged with International terrorism - the only country to have been so - for it's terrorist activities in Nicaragua.
    Great President? Sure!
  • El_KabongEl_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A42821-2003Nov14.html#

    Ex-Security Chiefs Turn on Sharon
    Government Policies 'Create Hatred,' Israeli Newspaper Is Told

    By Molly Moore
    Washington Post Foreign Service
    Saturday, November 15, 2003; Page A01

    JERUSALEM, Nov. 14 -- Four former chiefs of Israel's powerful domestic security service said in an interview published Friday that the government's actions and policies during the three-year-old Palestinian uprising have gravely damaged the country and its people.

    The four, who variously headed the Shin Bet security agency from 1980 to 2000 under governments that spanned the political spectrum, said that Israel must end its occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip, that the government should recognize that no peace agreement can be reached without the involvement of the Palestinian leader, Yasser Arafat, and that it must stop what one called the immoral treatment of Palestinians.

    "We must once and for all admit that there is another side, that it has feelings and that it is suffering, and that we are behaving disgracefully," said Avraham Shalom, who headed the security service from 1980 until 1986. "Yes, there is no other word for it: disgracefully. . . . We have turned into a people of petty fighters using the wrong tools."

    The statements to Israel's largest-circulation Hebrew-language daily newspaper, Yedioth Aharonoth, added to recent public criticism of Prime Minister Ariel Sharon by Israeli political, military and civic leaders for his failure to stop terrorism or negotiate peace as the uprising enters its fourth year.

    Members of the Sharon government said they would not comment directly on the statements.

    "I don't want to add more fuel to this," said a senior government official, speaking on condition of anonymity. "These, of all people, should have known this is the worst time to conduct public debate on these issues."

    The official said creating the image that "Israel is falling apart at the seams" could prompt Palestinian organizations to "intensify terrorist activity."

    The former security chiefs said they agreed to the two-hour interview -- the first time the four have ever sat down together -- out of "serious concern for the condition of the state of Israel," according to Carmi Gillon, who ran Shin Bet in 1995 and 1996.

    Maj. Gen. Ami Ayalon, who headed the agency from 1996 until 2000 and is co-author of a peace petition signed by tens of thousands of Israelis and Palestinians, said: "We are taking sure and measured steps to a point where the state of Israel will no longer be a democracy and a home for the Jewish people."

    Shin Bet is Israel's dominant domestic security and intelligence service, with primary responsibility for the country's anti-terrorism efforts. It often plans and directs armed forces operations that support its own activities, including raids into Palestinian towns and villages in search of alleged terrorists, assassinations of suspected militants and interrogation of suspects. The current Shin Bet chief, Avi Dichter, is one of Sharon's most trusted and influential advisers, according to administration officials.

    The four former Shin Bet leaders said they recognized the contradictions between some of their actions as security chiefs and their opinions today.

    "Why is it that everyone -- [Shin Bet] directors, chief of staff, former security personnel -- after a long service in security organizations become the advocates of reconciliation with the Palestinians? Because they were there." said Yaakov Perry, whose term as security chief between 1988 and 1995 covered the first Palestinian uprising, or intifada. "We know the material, the people in the field, and surprisingly, both sides."

    The security chiefs denounced virtually every major military and political tactic of the Sharon administration, adding their voices to the dissent in Israel against the prime minister's handling of a conflict that has claimed the lives of more than 2,500 Palestinians and nearly 900 Israelis and foreigners.

    In recent weeks, the country's top general has criticized Sharon's clampdown on Palestinians in the West Bank; active and reserve Air Force pilots have publicly declared the military's use of missiles and bombs to kill militants in civilian neighborhoods to be "immoral"; activists have initiated independent peace proposals; and opinion polls have indicated that faith in Sharon is plummeting.

    Perry said the country is "going in the direction of decline, nearly a catastrophe" in almost every area -- economic, political, social and security. "If something doesn't happen here, we will continue to live by the sword, we will continue to wallow in the mud and we will continue to destroy ourselves," he said.

    The four men said Israel should be prepared to initiate a peace process unilaterally rather than wait for the Palestinians to bring a halt to terrorism, which is Sharon's overriding prerequisite for negotiations.

    "As of today, we are preoccupied with preventing terror," Gillon said. "Why? Because this is the condition for making political progress. And this is a mistake."

    "You are wrong if you think that this is a mistake," interjected Shalom. "It is not a mistake. It is an excuse -- an excuse for doing nothing."

    The group was particularly critical of Sharon's attempt to sideline Arafat and declare him "irrelevant" -- also a key tenet of President Bush's Middle East policy.

    "It was the mother of all errors with regard to Arafat," said Shalom, who has worked as an international business consultant since leaving the government. "We cannot determine who will have the greatest influence over there. So let us look at the Palestinians' political map, and it is a fact that nothing can happen without Arafat."

    Israel should "stop talking about a partner already and do what is good for us," said Perry, now a bank chairman and businessman. "What is good for us is to be able to protect ourselves in the most effective manner . . . to waste fewer troops on guarding hilltops and settlements and three goats and eight cowboys."

    The former security chiefs said the Jewish settlements that have proliferated across the West Bank and the Gaza Strip are among the greatest obstacles to peace. "Sharon has often talked about the fact that we will be required to make painful compromises," Perry said, "and there are no painful compromises except for evacuating settlements."

    Several of the chiefs also condemned the 400-mile fence and barrier complex Israel is erecting around the heart of the West Bank. Sharon has said the fence is needed to stop terrorists from infiltrating Israel. However, its path veers deep into the West Bank in several places.

    "It creates hatred, it expropriates land and annexes hundreds of thousands of Palestinians to the state of Israel," Shalom said. "The result is that the fence achieves the exact opposite of what was intended."

    Alluding to South Africa's former system of racial separation known as apartheid, he added: "The Palestinians are arguing, 'You wanted two states, and instead you are closing us up in a South African reality.' Therefore, the more we support the fence, they lose their dream and hope for an independent Palestinian state."

    Ayalon, who is chairman of an irrigation systems company, said he considered much of Israeli policy in the Palestinian territories "immoral, some of it patently immoral."

    "Terror is not thwarted with bombs or helicopters," said Shalom, who asked rhetorically: "Why does this increase terror? Because it is overt, because it carries an element of vindictiveness."

    "The problem, as of today, is that the political agenda has become solely a security agenda," said Gillon, who has also served as an ambassador. "It only deals with the question of how to prevent the next terror attack, not the question of how it is at all possible to pull ourselves out of the mess that we are in today."
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • El_KabongEl_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    kh65 wrote:
    Your proof? RR was the greatest president of my lifetime.

    yeah, aside from selling thousands of missiles to iran and funnelling the money to what congress declared a terrorist organization so it could destabilize a government we didn't like and then lie to congress and falsify and destroy records to try and cover it up and other secret, illegal wars...and the surge in corporate abuse.

    a pretty good book to read

    http://www.amazon.com/Politics-Rich-Poor-Electorate-Aftermath/dp/006097396X/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1211950152&sr=1-1

    The Politics of Rich and Poor: Wealth and the American Electorate in the Reagan Aftermath
    by Kevin P. Phillips (Author)

    From Publishers Weekly
    Economic analysis and historical comparisons blend to show that Reagan's presidency left a huge concentration of wealth at the top that harms the poor, adds to the mounting debt and allows foreigners to grab large chunks of America. "A stunning refutation of George Gilder's Wealth and Poverty , Phillips's dispassionate report offers no solutions yet zeros in on key problems," said PW.

    From Library Journal
    In this extremely readable description of the economic consequences of the "Reagan revolution" of the 1980s, Phillips relies on diverse empirical data to support the notion that there is a cyclical pattern in American politics. Like the 1880s and the 1920s, the 1980s, says Phillips, represented the ascendancy of the Republican party, which allowed the wealthy to make even further dramatic gains over the middle and lower classes. This "circulation of elites" notion points to a populist backlash and possible return of the Democratic party to the presidency in the 1990s, he says. His critique fits nicely with the work of Arthur M. Schlesinger and the pioneering turn-of-the-century European social scientists Roberto Michels and Vilfredo Pareto.
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • Eliot RosewaterEliot Rosewater Posts: 2,659
    El_Kabong wrote:
    carter better watch his back before israel kidnaps him and imprisons him like vanunu
    yeah....before "Israel" kidnaps him :rolleyes: I'm so sick of Israel deepthroating America. Or is it the other way around? Must be a 69 type situation. It's so hard to tell the difference these days...
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jun/07/usforeignpolicy.jimmycarter

    'I have moral authority'

    Jimmy Carter has snubbed the lecture circuit cash cow to devote his post-presidential life to brokering peace in the Middle East and fighting disease. So why is it that so many Americans can't stand him? Jonathan Freedland asks him
    Jonathan Freedland The Guardian, Saturday June 7 2008 Article history
  • Byrnzie wrote:
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jun/07/usforeignpolicy.jimmycarter

    'I have moral authority'

    Jimmy Carter has snubbed the lecture circuit cash cow to devote his post-presidential life to brokering peace in the Middle East and fighting disease. So why is it that so many Americans can't stand him? Jonathan Freedland asks him
    Jonathan Freedland The Guardian, Saturday June 7 2008 Article history


    Nice to see a US president do the right thing for humanity for a change.

    What a rare occurrence.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • rebornFixerrebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    Israel's nuclear arsenal is the worst-kept secret in the Middle East. Carter shooting his mouth off now is hardly stunning news.
  • El_KabongEl_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    Israel's nuclear arsenal is the worst-kept secret in the Middle East. Carter shooting his mouth off now is hardly stunning news.


    then why'd they kidnap and lock that vanunu guy up? spite?
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
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