Anti Michael Moore site gets unlikely donation

RainDog

onelongsong wrote:

don't expect to see his film in the us. it contains contraban MADE IN CUBA. if the movie is allowed in the us we'll all be smoking cuban cigars because you can't change a law for one person.
as far as healthcare; the us cannot have socialized medicine because of the immigration problem. not anything mm can do. healthcare is governed by social security. ie: medicare and medicaid. the extra money needed for policing; prosecution and jailing illegals as well as trying to protect our borders would give every american the best healthcare available.

Are you uninformed or just being facetious?

In other words, I just saw a commercial for it last night. It's being released in the U.S. on June 29th. So break out the cigars.

bug

Hi!
I can say that i like his style, but you probably know more about him than i do! Anyway, his work is watched outside U.S., giving him a good rason to exist and keep doing what he does!

RolandTD20Kdrummer

I can't see how people can hate him. I think it speak VOLUMES about their character. The guy is raising issues and provoking thought...

If it's a personal thing well... small minds think and hate alike apparently

blackredyellow

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

I can't see how people can hate him. I think it speak VOLUMES about their character. The guy is raising issues and provoking thought...

If it's a personal thing well... small minds think and hate alike apparently

I can't see how people hate him (or really anyone that they don't know), but I can see how people can get annoyed and turned off by him.

He does raise issues and provokes thought, but he tends to misleadingly arrange and rearrange statements and images into a convenient context to emphasis his points.

I am/was against the Iraq war, but watching F9/11 frustrated me at how he took the easy way out by pulling at heartstrings. He made a lot of good connections in the first half of the movie and should have just left it at that... after watching the second half, it took a lot of the credibility/impact away for me.

whitepants

No matter what you think about MM, it was very big of him to donate $12k to someone who hates him.

And then the guy has the gall to ACCEPT the donation and Keep talking shit about MM on his blog.

Only in America are hypocrites so ignorantly proud. And the people who support Moore Watch are too dumb to see the irony of it all.

Kann

whitepants wrote:

No matter what you think about MM, it was very big of him to donate $12k to someone who hates him.

And then the guy has the gall to ACCEPT the donation and Keep talking shit about MM on his blog.

Only in America are hypocrites so ignorantly proud. And the people who support Moore Watch are too dumb to see the irony of it all.

It's a severe statement. I think it's a fair fight. MM, upon releasing a film on the toughness of social security gives one of is enemies a large amount of money for medical procedures. I'm sure it saved this guy a lot of anguish and trouble, but you can't accuse him of feeling manipulated. MM just made some advertisement of his back. And you can't help but wonder if his movie hadn't been about social security would he have done that?
I don't even know what moore watch is, and I actually like the MM films I saw, and I actually look up to MM for doing something like that, but still I understand the guy for his stance. And at least he does stand by his point.

RainDog

whitepants wrote:

No matter what you think about MM, it was very big of him to donate $12k to someone who hates him.

And then the guy has the gall to ACCEPT the donation and Keep talking shit about MM on his blog.

Only in America are hypocrites so ignorantly proud. And the people who support Moore Watch are too dumb to see the irony of it all.

If George Bush, a man I thoroughly despise, offered me $12,000 I'd take it and still talk shit about him. The only way I wouldn't accept the money would be if he demanded that I stop talking shit about him in exchange.

From a strictly cynical, business perspective, this gift actually serves Michael Moore just as much as the guy who accepted it. Moore gets to look cool, charitable, and non-partisan - which will likely translate into box-office dollars after Sicko is released. The man gets the money and therefore gets to continue to speak against Moore - further providing "free" advertising for the film and future Moore projects. Plus, without a counter-point, no argument can claim to be a "strong" argument. Perhaps, just as scientists go through a "falsifiable" process - usually by other independent scientists - Moore wants the same for his claims.

onelongsong

blackredyellow wrote:

You can also say that the money spent on the war in iraq would give every american the best healthcare available as well. I think it's a cop out to blame the lack health care on illegal immigration or whatever.

military money is just that. if it wasn't for the war the money would go towards building the military stronger. any money possibly diverted (if possible) would go to the over taxed governing body which would not direct it to socialized medicine.

RainDog

onelongsong wrote:

military money is just that. if it wasn't for the war the money would go towards building the military stronger. any money possibly diverted (if possible) would go to the over taxed governing body which would not direct it to socialized medicine.

Congress votes on how we spend money every couple of months. That's what the whole "funding the troops" argument was about recently. And who is this "over taxed governing body" you're talking about? The American Population? I believe, again, that it's up to Congress to decide on how to spend our tax dollars. If they vote for universal healthcare, we get universal healthcare - if they vote for a tax break, we get a tax break. If they vote in a way the American Population doesn't like, they get voted out.

And the American Population is warming up to the idea of universal healthcare - and cooling on the idea of tax breaks.

blackredyellow

onelongsong wrote:

military money is just that. if it wasn't for the war the money would go towards building the military stronger. any money possibly diverted (if possible) would go to the over taxed governing body which would not direct it to socialized medicine.

Then by that logic, your argument below (which my response was to) doesn't make sense. If military money is just that, then border security money is just that too and wouldn't go to healthcare.

Your "immigration problem" is nothing more than a red herring in the health care argument.

onelongsong wrote:

as far as healthcare; the us cannot have socialized medicine because of the immigration problem. not anything mm can do. healthcare is governed by social security. ie: medicare and medicaid. the extra money needed for policing; prosecution and jailing illegals as well as trying to protect our borders would give every american the best healthcare available.

gue_barium

onelongsong wrote:

i don't mean to be offensive but would an educated person believe that a man sitting in california knew where every government official was at any particular time or what that person was thinking? i know a lot of people that think F9/11 was a true story. not one has more than a high school education.

I never saw F911 as a "story". I don't think most people did. It was a lot of facts presented in a such a manner as to keep Americans from lynching the President.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

chopitdown wrote:

i'm sure most are. It makes sense though; they generally disagree with his politics. why is it curious?

I see it (predominantly) one of two ways (for the MM haters).

A) They like how everything is going right now (US gov't wise) despite the corruption (or they are somehow still blind to it?!) and feel that as long as they are on top in the world screw everyone else (i.e. how dare Moore speak unpatriotic words about the country).

The other slant is.... they hate how MM looks, how he talks, how he dresses....everything about him actually, which is a predominantly racist mindset.

I just can't see the flat out justification of this MM loathing phenomenon and work up very much respect for those who harbor it.

chopitdown

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

I see it (predominantly) one of two ways (for the MM haters).

A) They like how everything is going right now (US gov't wise) despite the corruption (or they are somehow still blind to it?!) and feel that as long as they are on top in the world screw everyone else (i.e. how dare Moore speak unpatriotic words about the country).

The other slant is.... they hate how MM looks, how he talks, how he dresses....everything about him actually, which is a predominantly racist mindset.

I just can't see the flat out justification of this MM loathing phenomenon and work up very much respect for those who harbor it.

i would say replace the 2nd slant with this one...they don't like how he goes about presenting his view. He could make some decent points in his films, but he resorts to distorting facts, twisting things, making outlandish statements...which have nothing to do with his physical appearance.

I think people say negative things about him b/c he's overweight and sloppy but that's not the reason for disliking him; it's easier to say those things when you don't agree with the person. playing the appearance card is too easy and too convenient a scapegoat rather than dealing with the issues, imo.

blackredyellow

chopitdown wrote:

i would say replace the 2nd slant with this one...they don't like how he goes about presenting his view. He could make some decent points in his films, but he resorts to distorting facts, twisting things, making outlandish statements...which have nothing to do with his physical appearance.

I think people say negative things about him b/c he's overweight and sloppy but that's not the reason for disliking him; it's easier to say those things when you don't agree with the person. playing the appearance card is too easy and too convenient a scapegoat rather than dealing with the issues, imo.

I think that it's a combination of your's and Roland's post... We are all victims of our own biases.... Moore for me can be annoying, but for the most part I agree with his line of thinking, so I just kind of shrug off his annoying traits and his distortions/outlandish statements and go on with my life.

Same thing happens the other way around... if someone generally agrees with Rush or *shudders* Hannity, you let their annoying personalities/approaches slide, because you tend to agree with the basis of their statements. If you don't agree with them at all, their personalities and approaches are the last straw and make you violently angry

chopitdown

blackredyellow wrote:

I think that it's a combination of your's and Roland's post... We are all victims of our own biases.... Moore for me can be annoying, but for the most part I agree with his line of thinking, so I just kind of shrug off his annoying traits and his distortions/outlandish statements and go on with my life.

Same thing happens the other way around... if someone generally agrees with Rush or *shudders* Hannity, you let their annoying personalities/approaches slide, because you tend to agree with the basis of their statements. If you don't agree with them at all, their personalities and approaches are the last straw and make you violently angry

OH JUST SHUT UP!!!!!!



I think you hit the nail on the head. Even the people we support have quirks that annoy us, but we'll tolerate them much better b/c they are on our "side".

Flannel Shirt

Not sure why people have a problem with Mike Moore. His movies stand up for the little guy and show how big business runs the day, and he gets shit for it. ?????

I can see big business not liking the guy, but come on. Hes on your side people.

WhyNotSweden

Michael Moore 4 President

blackredyellow

WhynotSweden wrote:

Michael Moore 4 President

I thought your country had a Prime Minister...

onelongsong

chopitdown wrote:

i would say replace the 2nd slant with this one...they don't like how he goes about presenting his view. He could make some decent points in his films, but he resorts to distorting facts, twisting things, making outlandish statements...which have nothing to do with his physical appearance.

I think people say negative things about him b/c he's overweight and sloppy but that's not the reason for disliking him; it's easier to say those things when you don't agree with the person. playing the appearance card is too easy and too convenient a scapegoat rather than dealing with the issues, imo.

i don't see it that way. let's face it; nobody is against healthcare. the problem i have is when someone presents a problem; then treats it like we can wave a magic wand and solve the problem. the majority of the public is uninformed and doesn't understand all the variables involved.
i recall discussing socialized medicine back in the 70's. it's not a new idea. several administrations have tried to come up with a plan for socialized medicine and failed. my point being that it's not as easy as people tend to think.

jeffbr

WhynotSweden wrote:

Michael Moore 4 President

You can have him.