Have you see this? YES WE CAN

prism

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

I think what he is saying is he feels sick because the Brzezinski connection in your post paints Obama as the very globalist-elitist shmuck that he thought he was voting AGAINST.

I could be wrong.
Maybe you just converted him.

One can only hope that is what he was saying.
Because Obama is certainly FALSE HOPE!

perhaps you should loosen your tin-foil hat

I'm not saying that Brzezinski is great but he's not the spawn of satan that you're making him out to be. if he's is such a global elitest looking to take over the world then why was he (from the beginning) and continues to be such an outspoken critic of the US invasion and war with Iraq? why has been against and openly critisizes everything about Dubya's foreign policies? explain why he was formerly on the board of directors for Amnesty International? oh and Zbigniew Brzezinski is just one of several of Obama's foreign policy advisors.

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/09/12/358475.aspx



I know that you hate anything that doesn't go along with your American isolationist ideals, but there's a big ol' world outside the borders of the US that we have to share this planet with







as for Tony Rezko; Obama has admitted that having anything to do with him was a bone-headed mistake. and he has given the $150,000 in donations from him to charity. I'll take a candidate that can at least admit it when he fucks up and does what he can to fairly remedy the situation rather than all the jerks that just try to deny and cover-up their fuck ups.

Julien

Bu2 wrote:

http://www.dipdive.com

If you get a blank screen, hit "Replay" on the right side of the page.

thanks for that link !
Scarlett Johanssen is hot

prism

oooh i'm sorry Bu, i clicked on this thread to thank you for posting this and i let the negative nimrods distract me.

Thank You, this is really great

DriftingByTheStorm

prism wrote:

perhaps you should loosen your tin-foil hat

I'm not saying that Brzezinski is great but he's not the spawn of satan that you're making him out to be. if he's is such a global elitest looking to take over the world then why was he (from the beginning) and continues to be such an outspoken critic of the US invasion and war with Iraq? why has been against and openly critisizes everything about Dubya's foreign policies? explain why he was formerly on the board of directors for Amnesty International? oh and Zbigniew Brzezinski is just one of several of Obama's foreign policy advisors.

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/09/12/358475.aspx



I know that you hate anything that doesn't go along with your American isolationist ideals, but there's a big ol' world outside the borders of the US that we have to share this planet with







as for Tony Rezko; Obama has admitted that having anything to do with him was a bone-headed mistake. and he has given the $150,000 in donations from him to charity. I'll take a candidate that can at least admit it when he fucks up and does what he can to fairly remedy the situation rather than all the jerks that just try to deny and cover-up their fuck ups.

Well i respect your opinion, for starters.

I'll be honest with you, I have some personal confictions concerning Brzezinski. I thought he was pure evil until I heard him speak on some CNN broadcast in 2007. It made me REALY question what was going on.

All I can say is that if I have learned anything about the elite, politics, and power ... it is that they may and often do bicker about serious differences of opinion concerning how to best secure their power (socialism vs. fasicsm being a good one) but at the end of the day they will come back to agreement on most things - especialy maintaining their power! Beyond that, the money is often backing BOTH "sides".

As far as Brzezinski is concerned specificaly, like I said for a while i thought maybe he WAS breaking with the establishment. But I believe that it is mostly just rhetoric, subterfuge, and obfuscation ... look, the man had SERIOUS disagreements with Kissinger over detente and a few other major issues ... but BOTH He and Kissinger are MAJOR players in the CFR.

Just because Brzezinski doesn't agree with Bush's handling of foreign affairs does NOT mean he is on the right side of the fence. What if the guy just thinks Bush fucked up because he made people distrust the government? Judging by the mans record, HE HAS NO PROBLEM BACKING INTOLERABLY VILE DICTATORS, so long as they are good business for the US. He backed the Shaw of Iran "to the hilt", and let us not forget about Xiaoping ... remember Tiananmen Square? How bout the Taliban? He sure gave them plenty of support.

So maybe ole Brzezinski just didn't think that getting rid of a perfectly servicable oppressive dicator was necessary. It doesn't make him a great guy. And in fact, i think the record is pretty clear that he is a MAJOR player in "the establishment" ... as one of the key advisors of a guy who claims to be all about some "change", that rings pretty hollow to me!

And yeah. Foreign policy is important. Ron Paul isn't an isolationist though, so you can stop making false statements now.

And its nice that Obama is willing to admit that he associates with scumbags once he gets caught. All though to be fair, i think the land "scandal" that hillary brought up regarding Rezko is pretty pathetic.

What i find more indicting however, is that Rezko was actualy a fundraiser for the CLINTONS back in the 90's ... See the pictures ? But now he has conributed to Barack?

So my concern is less "Just how evil is Brzezinski" and more "Just how much change does Barack Obama represent if he is associate, funded, and advised by the very same people which he claims to be changing course away from?" ... and i think that answer, in light of these things, is increasingly: NOT MUCH.

Nevermind

Think for yourself. Question Authority. They are all just actors. They all have a role to play.

ledvedderman

Nevermind wrote:

I apologize if you learned something. But when people put a bunch of periods at the end of a sentence it might make others think your being sarcastic. If you want I can take an IQ test. If I do you have to post your results also though.

Only if you provide a bell chart to prove your IQ. We've been told they are quite popular on the RP forums.

ledvedderman

Julien wrote:

thanks for that link !
Scarlett Johanssen is hot

Yes she is, and she has a great voice. I think I remember somewhere that she is putting out an album of Tom Waits covers...

Nevermind

ledvedderman wrote:

Only if you provide a bell chart to prove your IQ. We've been told they are quite popular on the RP forums.

Havent even signed up dipshit. Personal attacks should be restricted to a different forum. This ones to discuss politics.

ledvedderman

Nevermind wrote:

Havent even signed up dipshit. Personal attacks should be restricted to a different forum. This ones to discuss politics.

How the bloody fuck did I do a personal attack on you? I have a feeling admin would favor a smartass comment from me about bell graphs over you calling another poster a "dipshit".

prism

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

Just because Brzezinski doesn't agree with Bush's handling of foreign affairs does NOT mean he is on the right side of the fence. What if the guy just thinks Bush fucked up because he made people distrust the government?

the What if here is conjecture on your part. while he's concerned with Bush having fucked-up US's credibilty he's against his foreign policies for reasons that go beyond that. does this sound like someone who's concern is with the way that the US is handling Iraq and that we should be taking over Iraq his way?

just two of his views regarding Iraq:

We have destroyed our credibility; no one believes anything the president says anymore. We have tarnished our morality with Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo. These are phenomenal costs. And there's, of course, blood and money and tens of thousands of Iraqi killed.

We have to get rid of this colonialist mindset that we are there to teach them how to be a country, how to be a democracy, how to avoid a civil war. This is their country. They're quite capable of running it once we're out.

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

Judging by the mans record, HE HAS NO PROBLEM BACKING INTOLERABLY VILE DICTATORS, so long as they are good business for the US. He backed the Shaw of Iran "to the hilt", and let us not forget about Xiaoping ... remember Tiananmen Square? How bout the Taliban? He sure gave them plenty of support.

yep, having backed the Shaw of Iran was stupid, as he probably figured out.

and yes he did reestablish diplomatic realtions with China under Xiaoping in '79. does that mean that he backed Xiaoping and was against the protests at Tiananmen Square ten years later in '89? NO. you're taking a big leap to try to connect the two there.

back he supported arming the mujaheddin in Afganistan in order to defeat the Soviet invasion in the early 80's. remember when the Soviet Union was everything that was evil? I can find nothing that says he ever backed the Taliban.

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

So maybe ole Brzezinski just didn't think that getting rid of a perfectly servicable oppressive dicator was necessary. It doesn't make him a great guy. And in fact, i think the record is pretty clear that he is a MAJOR player in "the establishment" ... as one of the key advisors of a guy who claims to be all about some "change", that rings pretty hollow to me!

except that he has said that the only good thing to come out of the Iraq war was getting rid of Hussein.

once again, I'm not defending Brzezinski. just explaing some facts that you're not looking at as you jump to conclusions. he's just one of Obama's 8 foreign policy advisors. additionally Obama has 13 national security advisors. so if you think that he's going to be calling all of the shots for Obama regarding foreign policy? well you're smarter than that

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

What i find more indicting however, is that Rezko was actualy a fundraiser for the CLINTONS back in the 90's ... See the pictures ? But now he has conributed to Barack?

he's been a fundraiser for lots of politicians besides the Clintons and Obama. Obama has admitted that having anything to do with Rezko was wrong, and donated to charity the $150,000 brought in Rezko. so, your point is

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

So my concern is less "Just how evil is Brzezinski" and more "Just how much change does Barack Obama represent if he is associate, funded, and advised by the very same people which he claims to be changing course away from?" ... and i think that answer, in light of these things, is increasingly: NOT MUCH.

based on your opinions and the answer according to you. if you look at the facts as a whole you'll see that you're trying to nit-pick for reasons to discredit Obama and insist that he's the same as every other politician, when that is far from the truth.

prism

Nevermind wrote:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article3284825.ece
http://youtube.com/watch?v=FxyPBmZE69s&feature=related
AMY GOODMAN: Barack Obama?

ALLAN NAIRN: Well, Obama’s top adviser is Zbigniew Brzezinski. Brzezinski gave an interview to the French press a number of years ago where he boasted about the fact that it was he who created the whole Afghan jihadi movement, the movement that produced Osama bin Laden. And he was asked by the interviewer, “Well, don’t you think this might have had some bad consequences?” And Brzezinski replied, “Absolutely not. It was definitely worth it, because we were going after the Soviets. We were getting the Soviets.” Another top Obama person—

AMY GOODMAN: I think his comment actually was, “What’s a few riled-up Muslims?” And this, that whole idea of blowback, the idea of arming, financing, training the Mujahideen in Afghanistan to fight the Soviets, including Osama bin Laden, and then when they’re done with the Soviets, they set their sights, well, on the United States.

yeah, that looks bad; until you consider that he gave that interview to the french press in january of '98. how was he to know then that those events from the early 80's would lead Bin Laden to commiting the actions of 9/11 twenty years later?

cornnifer

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

you've been on the money, in my book.

Hardly an endorsement since you also talk straight out of your ass.