World peace being stopped by.....

tybird

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

I not sure it's a good idea to automatically assume the next country would act the exact same way. It's definitely out of balance at the moment. I wouldn't accept what's going on now as normal by any means, and I think it would be a grave mistake to relax attitudes in this regard.

True......they would act exactly like the U.S., but a bully by any other name is still a bully.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

mammasan wrote:

Just look at history my friend. The Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, Persian, Chinese, Spanish, British, Germans, and Japanese all did what we are doing now, some in more brutal ways and to a greater extent. If the US where not the super power another country would surely fill that role. History has proven this time and time again.

That was then this is now. A lot has changed over the years. War is not considered acceptable policy anymore....the stakes are too high. Everything is connected by the second now, and it never was this way in the past.

mammasan

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

That was then this is now. A lot has changed over the years. War is not considered acceptable policy anymore....the stakes are too high. Everything is connected by the second now, and it never was this way in the past.

True but a super power has little worry about if the rest of the globe dissapproves of their actions. If Russia or China where in our shoes their behavior would be no different than ours.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

mammasan wrote:

True but a super power has little worry about if the rest of the globe dissapproves of their actions. If Russia or China where in our shoes their behavior would be no different than ours.

I'm not entirely convinced, European culture is not as John Wayne as the America's are.

jeffbr

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

I'm not entirely convinced, European culture is not as John Wayne as the America's are.

I had no idea China was part of European culture.

You're fooling yourself if you think that world peace will automatically occur if the US cleans up its act. As has been mentioned one only needs to look at history. Your claim that we're living in different times is meaningless. Every point in history is different from a previous point. Every generation is living in a different time that the previous.

JordyWordy

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

I'm not entirely convinced, European culture is not as John Wayne as the America's are.

me either, i cant really see any european country becoming a superpower (not just because of their small scale, but also european values, beliefs, and overall connection of euro countries cos of EU etc) ....so i suppose the european "power" would be the EU.

it seems inherent by nature that a country who attempts to or does become a superpower will have to be antagonistic...

does it have to be the case that their will always be a country exerting its political weight outside its own jurisdiction? its a different world now than before alright, but is it THAT different?

tybird

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

War is not considered acceptable policy anymore....the stakes are too high.

By whom??? The Swiss?? Maoist rebels throughout the world still seem to find it acceptable......so does the Taliban in Afghanistan.....so do the groups fighting in the area known as Somalia.....Ethiopia and Eriteria have both sent troops into the fields recently....several other areas of Africa have various armed bodies parading through them.....oh, ask the Chechnyans whether the Russians still consider war an acceptable policy.

JordyWordy

jeffbr wrote:

You're fooling yourself if you think that world peace will automatically occur if the US cleans up its act. As has been mentioned one only needs to look at history. Your claim that we're living in different times is meaningless. Every point in history is different from a previous point. Every generation is living in a different time that the previous.

im confused, are you saying that people do or dont learn from the past / history?

mammasan

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

I'm not entirely convinced, European culture is not as John Wayne as the America's are.

Since when has China or even Russia been a part of European culture?

Every empire in history has fallen only to be replaced by another. Someday US hegemony will fall only to be replaced by another superpower, from the looks of it probably China.

JordyWordy

tybird wrote:

By whom??? The Swiss?? Maoist rebels throughout the world still seem to find it acceptable......so does the Taliban in Afghanistan.....so do the groups fighting in the area known as Somalia.....Ethiopia and Eriteria have both sent troops into the fields recently....several other areas of Africa have various armed bodies parading through them.....oh, ask the Chechnyans whether the Russians still consider war an acceptable policy.

all good examples but that sounded as if it was meant as a Western standard. War does not appear to be considered acceptable in Europe in general - the response throughout europe regarding Iraq was fairly unanimous.

but yes, Russia can be distinguished from the rest of europe for the past 15 years on the basis of Chechnya, and also Serbia

JordyWordy

mammasan wrote:

Since when has China or even Russia been a part of European culture?

Every empire in history has fallen only to be replaced by another. Someday US hegemony will fall only to be replaced by another superpower, from the
looks of it probably China.

why China?

JordyWordy

blackredyellow wrote:

Humans are the biggest threat to world peace.

The US just happens to be the biggest, most influential country in the world right now, and with a bonehead leader, we get involved in more shit then we should. But if the US wasn't in the picture, there would be other power hungry leaders involved in the same crap.

i think thats a fair point, but i obviously realise that people born anywhere at anytime can be capable of war or terrorism or whatever. Is it impossible to have governments that seek to avoid this kind of behaviour? (and yes i know that governments are made up of humans!)

i just think saying that humans are incapable of living in a world with no war is extremely pessimistic.

tybird

JordyWordy wrote:

why China?

Billions of people, trillions of dollars and the bomb would be my guess.

mammasan

JordyWordy wrote:

why China?

China is the up and coming superpower both militarily and economically. While the EU maybe the dominate economic superpower, within the next few years, they do not have the same militaristic drive that China has. Much like the US, China has a desire to spread their sphere of influence and while our power wains theirs grows. They are the logical successor to us.

jeffbr

JordyWordy wrote:

im confused, are you saying that people do or dont learn from the past / history?

Many do. Many don't. I'm saying that it is myopic to believe that one country (any country) is the sole roadblock to world peace. I'm saying that there has never been a time when there wasn't conflict somewhere. I'm saying that even if the US cleaned up its act and went around the world planting daisies we'd still have countries at war - over territory, religion, natural resources, testosterone, etc...

Ultimately I'm saying that only a simpleton would believe that the US is the reason why there is no world peace.

jeffbr

JordyWordy wrote:

i just think saying that humans are incapable of living in a world with no war is extremely pessimistic.

Perhaps. Or maybe it is simply realistic. If you have evidence to the contrary, that would be super.

JordyWordy

jeffbr wrote:

Ultimately I'm saying that only a simpleton would believe that the US is the reason why there is no world peace.

nobody here claimed theyre the only threat to world peace, just the largest. and just to clarify, thats not my opinion.

i saw the article and was surprised by it. maybe it had leading q's or could even have been designed to facilitate a controversial result, but all im doing here is looking for opinions.

JordyWordy

jeffbr wrote:

Perhaps. Or maybe it is simply realistic. If you have evidence to the contrary, that would be super.

im not trying to prove you wrong. im not expected a global gun amnesty in 10 years or anything....put it like this.

Europe to me seems to be proof that millions of people can move from continous wars and border/religion/race/political disputes to a peaceful place, and one which is governed by a body which was specifically designed to rebuild together after WW2 and to avoid anymore wars. that transition has taken only 50 years.

that i would think, is a great example.

jeffbr

JordyWordy wrote:

im not trying to prove you wrong. im not expected a global gun amnesty in 10 years or anything....put it like this.

Europe to me seems to be proof that millions of people can move from continous wars and border/religion/race/political disputes to a peaceful place, and one which is governed by a body which was specifically designed to rebuild together after WW2 and to avoid anymore wars. that transition has taken only 50 years.

that i would think, is a great example.

I agree with you there, although I think there is some mentality that they don't have to do it because the US is there to do the dirty work. I'd love to see the US move beyond intervention and conflicts. As someone who loathes taxes, I see a tremendous opportunity to have our national budget decreased if we'd stop fucking around and playing war games, giving aid, policing, etc... We need to pull back, establish trade relations with those who have something to offer, and ignore the rest.

I don't think that would establish world peace, as I'm a pessimist/realist, but people can continue to hope.

know1

JordyWordy wrote:

nobody here claimed theyre the only threat to world peace, just the largest. and just to clarify, thats not my opinion.

i saw the article and was surprised by it. maybe it had leading q's or could even have been designed to facilitate a controversial result, but all im doing here is looking for opinions.

How was the survey worded or structured?