Israel troops ignored UN plea before killing them

Heineken Helen

thankyougrandma wrote:

Some are blaming the UN observers for BEING THERE? I think i've heard it all now...

Hmm... and it didn't even occur to me to be surprised or question that until you said that :eek:

chopitdown

danmac wrote:

"It could be more or could be less."
No, Isreli military maps, and the UN observers in the report you refer to, say it as 500 metres.

"Get that close?"

That post has been there for over 20 years. It is immovable. THey were in the post. Going about their business.

"The big question is..."

No, the big question is, how can you justify this deliberate targeting of independent oficials?

Next?

if they were DELIBERATELY targeted, then it is a shame and wrong. I'm not blaming the UN for being there, but you have to question the thought of staying in a war zone...that's all I'm saying

chopitdown

SoonForgotten2 wrote:

If a gunman takes a hostage, you don't shoot the hostage and the gunman. If terrorists are hiding behind civillians and peacekeepers, you don't just blow the whole lot up. I don't care what justification you give. Israel is a terrorist state. It has nothing to do with what religion they practice. They commit war crimes and kill or ruin the lives of innocent people without pause. This isn't about the people or the faith- it's about the iron fist of the government that is completely corrupt in its actions.

you've obviously never seen Speed... Shoot the hostage!

and if israel is a terrorist state it looks like the shit just hit the fan http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/27/zawahiri.ap/index.html

thankyougrandma

chopitdown wrote:

if they were DELIBERATELY targeted, then it is a shame and wrong. I'm not blaming the UN for being there, but you have to question the thought of staying in a war zone...that's all I'm saying

UN observers... what is their job exactly, observe no? They were doing their job, there's UN observers in almost any conflict, but they're usually protected and not targetted, that's why they stay there.

The fact that they've called them (even if it would be 1 time) is just adding to the failure of this military interventions, all over Lebanon, it's a failure.

danmac

chopitdown wrote:

you've obviously never seen Speed... Shoot the hostage!

and if israel is a terrorist state it looks like the shit just hit the fan http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/27/zawahiri.ap/index.html

Oh give over, I wouldnt worry about Al-Queda, the CIA stopped funding them years ago ;-)

chopitdown

thankyougrandma wrote:

UN observers... what is their job exactly, observe no? They were doing their job, there's UN observers in almost any conflict, but they're usually protected and not targetted, that's why they stay there.

The fact that they've called them (even if it would be 1 time) is just adding to the failure of this military interventions, all over Lebanon, it's a failure.

I know that they are usually there, but it is a war zone and I'm sure they knew there was a risk involved. I hope they were not directly attacked b/c that is a sad reflection on Israel and they really don't need more bad press or another reason for people to hate them.

chopitdown

danmac wrote:

Oh give over, I wouldnt worry about Al-Queda, the CIA stopped funding them years ago ;-)

this was the part that i was talking about. More the call to action of all muslims than the Al -Queda

"The shells and rockets ripping apart Muslim bodies in Gaza and Lebanon are not only Israeli (weapons), but are supplied by all the countries of the crusader coalition. Therefore, every participant in the crime will pay the price," al-Zawahiri said.

"The war with Israel does not depend on cease-fires ... . It is a Jihad for the sake of God and will last until (our) religion prevails ... from Spain to Iraq," al-Zawahiri said. "We will attack everywhere." Spain was controlled by Arab Muslims until they were driven from the country at the turn of the 16th century.

Al-Zawahiri declared that Arab regimes were complicit in Israeli fighting against Hezbollah and the Palestinians.

"My fellow Muslims, it is obvious that Arab and Islamic governments are not only impotent but also complicit...and you are alone on the battlefield. Rely on God and fight your enemies...make yourselves martyrs."

danmac

chopitdown wrote:

this was the part that i was talking about. More the call to action of all muslims than the Al -Queda

"The shells and rockets ripping apart Muslim bodies in Gaza and Lebanon are not only Israeli (weapons), but are supplied by all the countries of the crusader coalition. Therefore, every participant in the crime will pay the price," al-Zawahiri said.

"The war with Israel does not depend on cease-fires ... . It is a Jihad for the sake of God and will last until (our) religion prevails ... from Spain to Iraq," al-Zawahiri said. "We will attack everywhere." Spain was controlled by Arab Muslims until they were driven from the country at the turn of the 16th century.

Al-Zawahiri declared that Arab regimes were complicit in Israeli fighting against Hezbollah and the Palestinians.

"My fellow Muslims, it is obvious that Arab and Islamic governments are not only impotent but also complicit...and you are alone on the battlefield. Rely on God and fight your enemies...make yourselves martyrs."

Can't really argue with anything said there, can we?

What would the President, or christian fundamentalist religious leaders say if the US was under occupation or being targeted by weapons from China or Russia or wherever?

And really, come on, sticks and stones will break my bones and all that.

Words aren't bombs.

danmac

Apart from the Spain reference, of course.

binauralsounds

chopitdown wrote:

from the article.

"UN officials said Hezbollah guerillas had been operating in the area of the post near the eastern end of the border with Israel, a routine tactic to prevent Israel from attacking them.

"We did repeatedly in recent days say (to Israel) that this was an exposed position, that Hezbollah militants were 500 meters (yards) away shielding themselves near UN workers and civilians," UN humanitarian chief Jan Egeland said. "That's why it is so inexplicable that what happened happened."


my question is, if you know that you are in an exposed position in fighting (that you're not involved in)...WHY would you stay there? Get the workers and civillians out and observe from elsewhere. That makes sense to me.

Absolutely right. Again, this terrorist tactic is known as "hugging" and they knew EXACTLY what they were doing!!
PPL, PLEASE WAKE UP!

danmac

binauralsounds wrote:

Absolutely right. Again, this terrorist tactic is known as "hugging" and they knew EXACTLY what they were doing!!
PPL, PLEASE WAKE UP!

So the United Nations has to bow to the Israeli army and abandon a post that has stood for 20 years?

PaperPlates

danmac wrote:

So the United Nations has to bow to the Israeli army and abandon a post that has stood for 20 years?

When that post has become a haven for hezbollah, the UN guys and their post are no longer observing, they are involved. By their own choice? Certainly not. By Israel's choice? Certainly not. Who is it hiding near "safe zones" whilst launching their own from 30 yds away? OH yeaa, hezbollah.

danmac

PaperPlates wrote:

When that post has become a haven for hezbollah, the UN guys and their post are no longer observing, they are involved. By their own choice? Certainly not. By Israel's choice? Certainly not. Who is it hiding near "safe zones" whilst launching their own from 30 yds away? OH yeaa, hezbollah.

500 metres away, the official reports stated.

dkst0426

What is this about 500 meters?
Annan's Claims On Casualties May Unravel

A Canadian U.N. observer, one of four killed at a UNIFIL position near the southern Lebanese town of Khiyam on Tuesday, sent an e-mail to his former commander, a Canadian retired major-general, Lewis MacKenzie, in which he wrote that Hezbollah fighters were "all over" the U.N. position, Mr. MacKenzie said. Hezbollah troops, not the United Nations, were Israel's target, the deceased observer wrote.

Mr. MacKenzie, who after retiring from the Canadian military became a politician, had a very different interpretation. "I happen to know" the now-deceased Canadian U.N. observer, Major Paeta Hess-von Kruedener, Mr. MacKenzie told the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation in a radio interview yesterday.

"We've received e-mails from him a few days ago and he was describing the fact that he was taking fire within, in one case, three meters of his position ‘for tactical necessity — not being targeted,'" Mr. MacKenzie said he wrote.

In one such e-mail, obtained by The New York Sun, Hess-von Kruedener wrote about heavy IDF artillery and aerial bombardment "within 2 meters of our position." The Israeli shooting, he added, "has not been deliberate targeting, but has rather been due to tactical necessity."