Israel troops ignored UN plea before killing them

danmac

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5217176.stm

UN peacekeepers in south Lebanon contacted Israeli troops 10 times before an Israeli bomb killed four of them, an initial UN report says.
The post was hit by a precision-guided missile after six hours of shelling nearby, diplomats familiar with the initial probe into the deaths say.

The news came as crisis talks seeking to end the fighting between Hezbollah and Israel ended in Rome.

They agreed immediate action "to reach with the utmost urgency a ceasefire".

The four unarmed UN observers from Austria, Canada, China and Finland, died after their UN post was hit by an Israeli air strike on Tuesday.

The UN report says each time the UN contacted Israeli forces, they were assured the firing would stop.

Israel is conducting an investigation into the deaths, and has rejected accusations made by UN Secretary General Kofi Annan that the targeting of the UN position was "apparently deliberate".

In southern Lebanon, fierce clashes have continued between Israeli forces and Hezbollah fighters around the town of Bint Jbail.

Reports say between eight and13 Israeli soldiers have been killed.

Israel has not confirmed any deaths, but says there have been 20 casualties.

=========================================================

Whats the excuse this time, you Zionist apologists?

Unleavened bread makes you hard of hearing?

BrotherLoveBone

At first when i heard K.Annan saying that Israel bombed the U.N. building on purpose i thought he was over exaggerating but when they announced the news about the peacekeepers contacting Israeli troops 10 times and that even the rescuers were bombed i lost the last little piece of sympathy i had for Israel. To me it's just a battle between two terrorist groups from now on. I only feel bad for Lebanon and its' people.

Rider

Yeah, just like the Israeli's bombing the USS Liberty, we are supposed to ignore everything the "good guys" do. Bullsh*t, a lot of the problems in the Mideast begin with Israel and our paying for their aggression.

hailhailkc

Once again, none of us were there…nor do we have any idea what really happned. These things continue to get posted though because they nicely fit the mold of some people's pre-conceived notions of the way it "probably" happened.

Irresponsible at best.

Pushing for an agenda at worst.

rightondude

I can hear the Israeli military now behind closed doors...."well...you're either with us, or against us"

Kinda like (exactly) what the US military said before parading into Iraq.

binauralsounds

From what I've heard from several media sources, there were supposed Hezbollah flags right next to the outpost and small arms fire along with rocket fire VERY VERY close to the outpost!!! If this is true, just another fine example of how hezbollah hides behind innocent ppl in order to exploit the other side when innocents fall victim! this tactic is known as "hugging". stay close to the innocents and hope for major collateral damage.

rightondude

Interesting tactic. Grab some empty apartment and hoist the flag from the balcony or on the roof. Like raising the red cape in front of the bull.

shame on both.

SundaySilence

Some more info:

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1153292007546&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

Heineken Helen

hailhailkc wrote:

Once again, none of us were there…nor do we have any idea what really happned. These things continue to get posted though because they nicely fit the mold of some people's pre-conceived notions of the way it "probably" happened.

Irresponsible at best.

Pushing for an agenda at worst.

It was an Irish lieutenant colonel who had contacted them at least 6 times and he's been on the news here loadsa times clarifying that they couldnt' believe the bombs were dropping so close. Why do you find it so hard to believe? Israel have about as much regard for the UN as the US does - they want NATO to come in. The Irish foreign affairs minister called in the Israeli ambassador yesterday to 'express disappointment' :rolleyes: or something. The papers here don't like Israel at all anymore and are asking why they want to lose ALL friends but the US? It's an interesting question.

Heineken Helen

binauralsounds wrote:

From what I've heard from several media sources, there were supposed Hezbollah flags right next to the outpost and small arms fire along with rocket fire VERY VERY close to the outpost!!! If this is true, just another fine example of how hezbollah hides behind innocent ppl in order to exploit the other side when innocents fall victim! this tactic is known as "hugging". stay close to the innocents and hope for major collateral damage.

That still does not justify anything. I can see this all TOO closely to the situation in Northern Ireland. Had the Brits decided to just BOMB the 6 counties in the 70s or 80s that would NOT be in any way justifiable. Yes there are so called 'terrorists' all over the place... but these don't wear a sign saying I'm in the IRA - they're normal people like you or me, just like Hezbollah. Yes people may be protecting them but if my mother decided to protect someone in the IRA, does that mean it's alright that they kill me? :mad: It's all a fucking joke... the ONLY way to achieve peace is through talk - you cannot achieve peace through violence and this goes for both sides but the hatred runs much deeper than any of you can ever even imagine. It's not as simple as good versus evil, jew versus muslim.

chopitdown

binauralsounds wrote:

From what I've heard from several media sources, there were supposed Hezbollah flags right next to the outpost and small arms fire along with rocket fire VERY VERY close to the outpost!!! If this is true, just another fine example of how hezbollah hides behind innocent ppl in order to exploit the other side when innocents fall victim! this tactic is known as "hugging". stay close to the innocents and hope for major collateral damage.

from the article.

"UN officials said Hezbollah guerillas had been operating in the area of the post near the eastern end of the border with Israel, a routine tactic to prevent Israel from attacking them.

"We did repeatedly in recent days say (to Israel) that this was an exposed position, that Hezbollah militants were 500 meters (yards) away shielding themselves near UN workers and civilians," UN humanitarian chief Jan Egeland said. "That's why it is so inexplicable that what happened happened."


my question is, if you know that you are in an exposed position in fighting (that you're not involved in)...WHY would you stay there? Get the workers and civillians out and observe from elsewhere. That makes sense to me.

danmac

binauralsounds wrote:

From what I've heard from several media sources, there were supposed Hezbollah flags right next to the outpost and small arms fire along with rocket fire VERY VERY close to the outpost!!! If this is true, just another fine example of how hezbollah hides behind innocent ppl in order to exploit the other side when innocents fall victim! this tactic is known as "hugging". stay close to the innocents and hope for major collateral damage.

Which sources? Personal friends?

I'm all ears to all sides of this.

chopitdown

danmac wrote:

Which sources? Personal friends?

I'm all ears to all sides of this.

how about UN workers and the UN humanitarian chief...who were there.

jsand

danmac wrote:

Which sources? Personal friends?

I'm all ears to all sides of this.

Here - with UNFIL press releases:

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/why_the_un_post_was_bombed/

Retired Canadian Major General Lewis Mackenzie says he recently received emails from the Canadian peacekeeper killed at the UN post who’d told him that Hezbollah was using his post as cover.

We received emails from him a few days ago, and he was describing the fact that he was taking fire within, in one case, three meters of his position for tactical necessity, not being targeted. Now that’s veiled speech in the military. What he was telling us was Hezbollah soldiers were all over his position and the IDF were targeting them. And that’s a favorite trick by people who don’t have representation in the UN. They use the UN as shields knowing that they can’t be punished for it.


I'm real sure you're open to both sides - "murder loving zionists. Disgusting racist pig.

danmac

chopitdown wrote:

how about UN workers and the UN humanitarian chief...who were there.

Links? Reports? What was it, a faulty precision guided bomb?

chopitdown

danmac wrote:

Links? Reports? What was it, a faulty precision guided bomb?

see post 11.

also precision guided bombs aren't the most accurate. In the late 90's the british smart bombs only hit 40% of their targets and the US bombs in early 2000's hit less than 50% of the targets. In 01 there was an average miss of around 100 yards
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1184086.stm

jsand

danmac wrote:

Links? Reports? What was it, a faulty precision guided bomb?

Read what I just posted - you'll probably choose to ignore it because it doesn't fit into your view that Israel is evil.

ruud

it doesnt matter, first they were people, second they were there to make peace, third , and what is more important to the outside world currently, they were UN, so if your killing people who are trying to resolve the situation then what happens next??

insane i cant believe that. how can you precisly hit a un shelter by mistake?
how..this is what i get upset at israel for...things that force the people to bomb back and get hamas and hizbzalah firing misiles...you see my point...shiraz this kind of what i wanted to tell you, that there are many things youy share equal pain for you suffer as well...but sometimes, sorry in my perspective most of the times, it is israel who starts an insufferable attack on defencless people...our people...the un observers...oooops our bomb mistakingly hit your base....woops we'll pay for your caskets... itsnot fair israel have the power...but they use it to attack instead of use it to rebuild and settle..what do they hav eto loose with settling they have all the land and the money they need and the US support..what are they afraid of.

danmac

jsand wrote:

Here - with UNFIL press releases:

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/why_the_un_post_was_bombed/

Retired Canadian Major General Lewis Mackenzie says he recently received emails from the Canadian peacekeeper killed at the UN post who’d told him that Hezbollah was using his post as cover.

We received emails from him a few days ago, and he was describing the fact that he was taking fire within, in one case, three meters of his position for tactical necessity, not being targeted. Now that’s veiled speech in the military. What he was telling us was Hezbollah soldiers were all over his position and the IDF were targeting them. And that’s a favorite trick by people who don’t have representation in the UN. They use the UN as shields knowing that they can’t be punished for it.


I'm real sure you're open to both sides - "murder loving zionists. Disgusting racist pig.

haha this is a joke. Somebody, a non paid journalist, just some idiot with an opinion, posts a blog via an Australian website, and that's fact???

His previous posts, and athe one you linked too, agaian made frequent use of the old "anti-semite" line, and his views are renowned as being extrmely pro-israeili and right wing.

And that LGF site is not, unless you are highly anti-moslem, a credible source.

He can't even get his facts straight. Lebanese civil war started in 1975.

Wrong end, right stick. Try harder next time.

jsand

ruud wrote:

it doesnt matter, first they were people, second they were there to make peace, third , and what is more important to the outside world currently, they were UN, so if your killing people who are trying to resolve the situation then what happens next??

insane i cant believe that. how can you precisly hit a un shelter by mistake?
how..this is what i get upset at israel for...things that force the people to bomb back and get hamas and hizbzalah firing misiles...you see my point...shiraz this kind of what i wanted to tell you, that there are many things youy share equal pain for you suffer as well...but sometimes, sorry in my perspective most of the times, it is israel who starts an insufferable attack on defencless people...our people...the un observers...oooops our bomb mistakingly hit your base....woops we'll pay for your caskets... itsnot fair israel have the power...but they use it to attack instead of use it to rebuild and settle..what do they hav eto loose with settling they have all the land and the money they need and the US support..what are they afraid of.

Wake up. It's a WAR - mistake will be made. How come nobody blames good ol' Kofi for MAKING them stay at the post while Hizbollah used it as cover? And "they have all the land"? What the hell are you talking about? Israel is a tiny sliver of land as it is...should they now cede even more of it because thery were attacked unprovoked?

jsand

danmac wrote:

haha this is a joke. Somebody, a non paid journalist, just some idiot with an opinion, posts a blog via an Australian website, and that's fact???

His previous posts, and athe one you linked too, agaian made frequent use of the old "anti-semite" line, and his views are renowned as being extrmely pro-israeili and right wing.

And that LGF site is not, unless you are highly anti-moslem, a credible source.

He can't even get his facts straight. Lebanese civil war started in 1975.

Wrong end, right stick. Try harder next time.

You can't read. Read the fucking article - it is supported by UNFIL press releases. Of course, you ignore it.

Question: Do you think anti-semitism exists, or that it's something the Jews just made up to get pity?

Also, if you do actually believe it exists, is it only anti-semitism when someone explicitly says: "I hate Jews"?

chopitdown

danmac wrote:

haha this is a joke. Somebody, a non paid journalist, just some idiot with an opinion, posts a blog via an Australian website, and that's fact???

His previous posts, and athe one you linked too, agaian made frequent use of the old "anti-semite" line, and his views are renowned as being extrmely pro-israeili and right wing.

And that LGF site is not, unless you are highly anti-moslem, a credible source.

He can't even get his facts straight. Lebanese civil war started in 1975.

Wrong end, right stick. Try harder next time.

pretty damn arrogant from someone who wants information. http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1153292007546&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
this is the article i told you to check out. It's in the Jerusalem post from the Associate Press. But I'm sure you'll find something to ignore about it.

danmac

chopitdown wrote:

pretty damn arrogant from someone who wants information. http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1153292007546&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
this is the article i told you to check out. It's in the Jerusalem post from the Associate Press. But I'm sure you'll find something to ignore about it.

Thanks for that.

"Hezbollah militants were 500 meters (yards) away."

Not in the building then? Not next door? But what, HALF A KILOMETRE away?

Ha! Are those bombs so smart they drop HALF A KILOMETRE away?

So, Israel is using these munitions, which land HALF A KILOMETRE away, upn Beirut, Tyre, Lebanon, in order to fight a 'terror' organiisation, and this is blanced, precised, and restrained? Indiscriminate is the word in looking for.

Is that your credibility blowing away in the wind.....

jsand

danmac wrote:

Thanks for that.

"Hezbollah militants were 500 meters (yards) away."

Not in the building then? Not next door? But what, HALF A KILOMETRE away?

Ha! Are those bombs so smart they drop HALF A KILOMETRE away?

So, Israel is using these munitions, which land HALF A KILOMETRE away, upn Beirut, Tyre, Lebanon, in order to fight a 'terror' organiisation, and this is blanced, precised, and restrained? Indiscriminate is the word in looking for.

Is that your credibility blowing away in the wind.....

You don't even classify Hizbollah as a terrorist organization. What credibility do you have?

danmac

jsand wrote:

You don't even classify Hizbollah as a terrorist organization. What credibility do you have?

Define terrorism, or terroist, for me.

chopitdown

danmac wrote:

Thanks for that.

"Hezbollah militants were 500 meters (yards) away."

Not in the building then? Not next door? But what, HALF A KILOMETRE away?

Ha! Are those bombs so smart they drop HALF A KILOMETRE away?

So, Israel is using these munitions, which land HALF A KILOMETRE away, upn Beirut, Tyre, Lebanon, in order to fight a 'terror' organiisation, and this is blanced, precised, and restrained? Indiscriminate is the word in looking for.

Is that your credibility blowing away in the wind.....

britiain uses them, the US uses them...they miss by an avg of ~100 yards that means some miss by more and some by less. Now lets say that they were targeting hezbollah which were ~500meteres away (that means it could be more could be less) If they are targeting something near that position it's not out of the realm of possibility for the bombs miss by 100 yards or more or less...the big question is why as UN observers would you get that close then stay there after you realize what was being done?

danmac

chopitdown wrote:

britiain uses them, the US uses them...they miss by an avg of ~100 yards that means some miss by more and some by less. Now lets say that they were targeting hezbollah which were ~500meteres away (that means it could be more could be less) If they are targeting something near that position it's not out of the realm of possibility for the bombs miss by 100 yards or more or less...the big question is why as UN observers would you get that close then stay there after you realize what was being done?

"It could be more or could be less."
No, Isreli military maps, and the UN observers in the report you refer to, say it as 500 metres.

"Get that close?"

That post has been there for over 20 years. It is immovable. THey were in the post. Going about their business.

"The big question is..."

No, the big question is, how can you justify this deliberate targeting of independent oficials?

Next?

Heineken Helen

http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=33&si=1660209&issue_id=14413

'The phone calls were made after the unarmed monitors inside the UN bunker at Khiyyam reported their position being hit around 20 times by Israeli artillery and air strikes.

UN sources alleged that the Israeli military ignored the plea after it was passed up through the chain of command. A laser-guided munition is believed to have then been dropped on the UN position. The four monitors inside - from Canada, Austria, Finland and China - were killed.

"The bunkers are big white things - you can see them for miles and they are lit up at night," a UN source said.

A Nigerian member of the UN Interim Force in Lebanon (Unifil) was also killed in Housh, a suburb of Tyre, when his house was demolished by an air strike.'

http://www.rte.ie/news/2006/0726/mideast1.html

'Afterwards Mr Ahern said that the Irish officer acting as liaison between the UN and the Israeli defence forces had warned them six times that their shelling was too close to UN positions.

He said the deaths were the result either of an incredible accident or of deliberate targeting.'

polaris

well ... there are two thiings here:

first of all - israel has maintained since the bombing that all their weapons are precision instruments - that they only hit intended targets ... now, they are saying this outpost clearly marked on every israeli map and physically was hit by accident?

despite all the warnings - it is still hit?

SoonForgotten2

If a gunman takes a hostage, you don't shoot the hostage and the gunman. If terrorists are hiding behind civillians and peacekeepers, you don't just blow the whole lot up. I don't care what justification you give. Israel is a terrorist state. It has nothing to do with what religion they practice. They commit war crimes and kill or ruin the lives of innocent people without pause. This isn't about the people or the faith- it's about the iron fist of the government that is completely corrupt in its actions.

thankyougrandma

Some are blaming the UN observers for BEING THERE? I think i've heard it all now...