Where has all the respect gone?

Vedder316

So much bitterness and negativity when discussing politics. Whats happening here, all this hate towards others views and beliefs. Its just a shame. The only people I can discuss politics and world views are family members and my wife. Though we dissagree on numerous subjects, their basicly the only people I can talk to with out getting blasted by hatred for what i believe. The government is bad enough with out every one being so harsh twords one another. Not sure what I'm even trying to get across.......just is kind of a downer when you think of the whole of it all.

Peace
M

sponger

To be perfectly honest, I can't remember a time when respect was displayed in the MT forum, which has historically been a forum rife with personal attacks and logical fallacies.

Do you not remember the temporary closing of the MT forum in the summer of '96? Hence the forum sticky.

Dirtie_Frank

Vedder316 wrote:

So much bitterness and negativity when discussing politics. Whats happening here, all this hate towards others views and beliefs. Its just a shame. The only people I can discuss politics and world views are family members and my wife. Though we dissagree on numerous subjects, their basicly the only people I can talk to with out getting blasted by hatred for what i believe. The government is bad enough with out every one being so harsh twords one another. Not sure what I'm even trying to get across.......just is kind of a downer when you think of the whole of it all.

Peace
M

I understand what you are saying. I believe that some people hold there beliefs so close it is personal and when attacking those beliefs they take it as an attack on themselves. No pshycologist just saying. But you are right

flywallyfly

sponger wrote:

To be perfectly honest, I can't remember a time when respect was displayed in the MT forum, which has historically been a forum rife with personal attacks and logical fallacies.

Do you not remember the temporary closing of the MT forum in the summer of '96? Hence the forum sticky.

No kidding. This Utopia never existed here.

Commy

its about politics. people take that seroiusly.

Anon

I think as a whole, most people that post here are fairly respectful to others. There's a few trolls that post here who aren't really interested in discussing things rationally, they are more interested in getting a reaction from people. In the ideal world, it would be great if we could all just put those people on ignore and let them go and fascinate someone else, but i guess it's just the nature of the beast that sometimes people react poorly.

It's interesting that those people never come back into the thread they started to debate anything once they are called out on their stupidity. They are just trolls. There's plenty of people that post here that i don't agree with everything they say, but i still respect their views.

I guess the other thing to keep in mind is that people can be really passionate about their beliefs and sometimes it's hard to keep emotions under wraps. No excuse, i know.

Commy

I like when people disagree with me. the more a subject is discussed the more people have a chance to learn about it. by all means, try to prove me wrong.

Vedder316

Does passion have to be harsh? Maybe its just wishful thinking.

Vedder316

Commy wrote:

I like when people disagree with me. the more a subject is discussed the more people have a chance to learn about it. by all means, try to prove me wrong.

Agree with you whole heartedly. I love discussing and debating but its sad that so many turn to insults ect to get points across. It just has a dirty feeling when it turns to that.

QuestionAuthority

I have been reading the Pearl Jam message board for nearly nine years now.. participating in the discussion off and on through all those years.. this current message board is the first where they was a specific "Moving Train".. a place specificallt to discuss/debate current events and political matters.. in all those nine years sorry to say there has never been this "respect" here that you discuss.

People are passionate about what they believe and the truth is that it is alot "easier" to hit a nerve with another when you do not have to look them in the eye when you do so.. this I have found is just the nature of the internet.

Consider though that this really is probably the most important election we will vote in for most of us in our lifetime. People are scared.. there are serious issues facing this country.. I would not expect anything else but passionate people who are holding onto their beliefs and viewpoints at this time.

QuestionAuthority

sponger wrote:

To be perfectly honest, I can't remember a time when respect was displayed in the MT forum, which has historically been a forum rife with personal attacks and logical fallacies.

Do you not remember the temporary closing of the MT forum in the summer of '96? Hence the forum sticky.

I think you mean 2006.. 1996 there was not a specific forum for poltical and current event debate..

All topics/forums/threads were all posted all together.. this format is SO much better.

Commy

QuestionAuthority wrote:

I have been reading the Pearl Jam message board for nearly nine years now.. participating in the discussion off and on through all those years.. this current message board is the first where they was a specific "Moving Train".. a place specificallt to discuss/debate current events and political matters.. in all those nine years sorry to say there has never been this "respect" here that you discuss.

People are passionate about what they believe and the truth is that it is alot "easier" to hit a nerve with another when you do not have to look them in the eye when you do so.. this I have found is just the nature of the internet.

Consider though that this really is probably the most important election we will vote in for most of us in our lifetime. People are scared.. there are serious issues facing this country.. I would not expect anything else but passionate people who are holding onto their beliefs and viewpoints at this time.

I disagree, repectfully. I have many 'adversaries' who are respectful and actually address the points I've made. And I return the favor. debate is not a competition, it is a chance to learn.

QuestionAuthority

Commy wrote:

I disagree, repectfully. I have many 'adversaries' who are respectful and actually address the points I've made. And I return the favor. debate is not a competition, it is a chance to learn.

I agree.. it would be WONDERFUL if all of us learned from each other, but sorry I have seen way too many things get disgusting around here.. usually causing me to leave for quite some time.. and it is a shame.. because I have loved this band for over 15 years.. their music means alot to me.. it is a shame that we can't all "rise above" and try to learn from each other for simply having the one common denominator of this wonderful group and their kick ass music that brings us here in common..but sometimes it gets real nasty.. at least what I have seen, like I said, over the nine years.. I have met wonderful people over the nine years.. there are great people, but having gone through Bush election 1 and the Supreme Court decision.. September 11, the war, Bush election 2, Katrina.. and trying to discuss things rationally at times on this message board gets really unrational..

sponger

QuestionAuthority wrote:

I think you mean 2006.. 1996 there was not a specific forum for poltical and current event debate..

All topics/forums/threads were all posted all together.. this format is SO much better.

Ha..yes...'06. Thank you for pointing that out.

Commy

QuestionAuthority wrote:

I agree.. it would be WONDERFUL if all of us learned from each other, but sorry I have seen way too many things get disgusting around here.. usually causing me to leave for quite some time.. and it is a shame.. because I have loved this band for over 15 years.. their music means alot to me.. it is a shame that we can't all "rise above" and try to learn from each other for simply having the one common denominator of this wonderful group and their kick ass music that brings us here in common..but sometimes it gets real nasty.. at least what I have seen, like I said, over the nine years.. I have met wonderful people over the nine years.. there are great people, but having gone through Bush election 1 and the Supreme Court decision.. September 11, the war, Bush election 2, Katrina.. and trying to discuss things rationally at times on this message board gets really unrational..

I\I read ya. Its easy to let the world get the best of you. But through it all, as bad as it gets, one thing that always holds me together is ten. the world can go to hell as far as I'm concerned, I have ten. It's gotten me through more than I can admit. Let it all go to hell, ten is my bible, and that's the truth.

NMyTree

sponger wrote:

To be perfectly honest, I can't remember a time when respect was displayed in the MT forum, which has historically been a forum rife with personal attacks and logical fallacies..

To be perfectly honest, I can't remember a time when respect was displayed in The Porch forum, which has historically been a forum rife with personal attacks and illogical fallacies.

The Porch has never been any different.

Go in there and express a dislike for one specific Pearl Jam song.

Or suggest that Vedder doesn't look hot in a picture.

Or suggest that Mikey's mistake on All Or None, on Benny Hall; doesn't sound good at all and kind of ruins the song.

Watch the maniacal responses/attracks and check your PM Box for the hate mail. It's laughable.

sponger

NMyTree wrote:

To be perfectly honest, I can't remember a time when respect was displayed in The Porch forum, which has historically been a forum rife with personal attacks and illogical fallacies.

The Porch has never been any different.

Go in there and express a dislike for one specific Pearl Jam song.

Or suggest that Vedder doesn't look hot in a picture.

Or suggest that Mikey's mistake on All Or None, on Benny Hall; doesn't sound good at all and kind of ruins the song.

Watch the maniacal responses/attracks and check your PM Box for the hate mail. It's laughable.

Never been there. But what do you expect when a forum is designed around the fanfare of a certain thing, and when that certain thing is not given its due fanfare?

writersu

Vedder316 wrote:

So much bitterness and negativity when discussing politics. Whats happening here, all this hate towards others views and beliefs. Its just a shame. The only people I can discuss politics and world views are family members and my wife. Though we dissagree on numerous subjects, their basicly the only people I can talk to with out getting blasted by hatred for what i believe. The government is bad enough with out every one being so harsh twords one another. Not sure what I'm even trying to get across.......just is kind of a downer when you think of the whole of it all.

Peace
M

then you are doing better than most people. I can't even discuss it with my mother and sister (who had totally brain washed her). I have decided to keep it to myself. When I am asked and I politely tell my take on it all, and the other person comes at me with a "holier than thou", "you must be soooo stupid. here let me tell you what I know and you do not obviously."

freedom of choice, religion, politics, etc. are what we are suppose to be about. Yeah, lately, there are a lot of bullies out there who just want to jump on you if you disagree.

Vedder316

Too true with most all said. "debate is not a competition, it is a chance to learn" I couldnt agree with you more. Its strange. Do you folks think that Pearl Jam fans represent what the band means, says is, ect well? Ed all the time speaks about loving your fellow man. Peace around the world. Unity. to listen to other and arrive at your own opinion. I mean 99% of the shows are ended with him saying "peace". I know some who do but the majority?

Commy

Vedder316 wrote:

Too true with most all said. "debate is not a competition, it is a chance to learn" I couldnt agree with you more. Its strange. Do you folks think that Pearl Jam fans represent what the band means, says is, ect well? Ed all the time speaks about loving your fellow man. Peace around the world. Unity. to listen to other and arrive at your own opinion. I mean 99% of the shows are ended with him saying "peace". I know some who do but the majority?

individuals have their own motives. and opinions. How they express those opinions are up to them.


paz y amor.

QuestionAuthority

NMyTree wrote:

To be perfectly honest, I can't remember a time when respect was displayed in The Porch forum, which has historically been a forum rife with personal attacks and illogical fallacies.

The Porch has never been any different.

Go in there and express a dislike for one specific Pearl Jam song.

Or suggest that Vedder doesn't look hot in a picture.

Or suggest that Mikey's mistake on All Or None, on Benny Hall; doesn't sound good at all and kind of ruins the song.

Watch the maniacal responses/attracks and check your PM Box for the hate mail. It's laughable.

That is so funny and so true.. been there done that... that is why this format is so much better.. it was excrutiating to have to maneuver through all the threads regarding why Bugs is the best Pearl Jam song ever!!!

Vedder316

QuestionAuthority wrote:

That is so funny and so true.. been there done that... that is why this format is so much better.. it was excrutiating to have to maneuver through all the threads regarding why Bugs is the best Pearl Jam song ever!!!

LOL

LONGRD

It's kind a taboo to say this but I honestly think RM's News & Debate is by far more informative and reasonable than anything here on The Pit's AMT. Even the conversative views have a clear and concise backing and fact behind their beliefs.

Vedder316

LongRd. wrote:

It's kind a taboo to say this but I honestly think RM's News & Debate is by far more informative and reasonable than anything here on The Pit's AMT. Even the conversative views have a clear and concise backing and fact behind their beliefs.

RM?

Commy

LongRd. wrote:

It's kind a taboo to say this but I honestly think RM's News & Debate is by far more informative and reasonable than anything here on The Pit's AMT. Even the conversative views have a clear and concise backing and fact behind their beliefs.

by fact you mean opinion I ASSUME?

Cosmo

Vedder316 wrote:

So much bitterness and negativity when discussing politics. Whats happening here, all this hate towards others views and beliefs. Its just a shame. The only people I can discuss politics and world views are family members and my wife. Though we dissagree on numerous subjects, their basicly the only people I can talk to with out getting blasted by hatred for what i believe. The government is bad enough with out every one being so harsh twords one another. Not sure what I'm even trying to get across.......just is kind of a downer when you think of the whole of it all.

Peace
M

...
My take...
Politics in America has been reduced to Sport. Sport is an easy concept to grasp... my team... AWESOME. Your team... SUCKS. Simple. We have picked a side... wear our Red or Blue colors... cheer our Mascots (Fat Ass or Jack Ass)... and become true to our team... The Republican Conservatives vs. The Democratic Liberals. We watch our sports commentators on T.V. and agree with what they have to say... basiaclly, that the other Team SUCKS!!! Cliff Notes for 'Politics For Dummies' makes everybody think hey understand politics... when in fact... it's pretty damn complicated.
You can read it here... it's ALL the Liberals fault... it's ALL the Conservatives fault... but, it is NEVER my fault. That's what gets blurted out over here.
...
And I respectfully, disagree. I think people here are capable of reasoned debate.... not everyone... but, some. I have personaly butted head with some very worthy adversaries, both liberal and conservatives, on differing issues. It all depends upon where i personally stand on that issue. And I respect where they are coming from... if it is their opinion... not the party line's agenda. The ones that would vote for Adolph Hitler(R) or Charles Manson(D) based soley on the 'R' or 'D' next to their names... I don't think they are idiots... they ARE idiots. They are EXACTLY what the politicians want... blind loyalty to their specific brand name.
As for passion... the subjects we discuss are issues that people passionately adhere to.... Politics, Abortion, Religion, Gun Control, War... those are heavy subjects that delve much deeper than putting which Pearl Jam album you like best, in order based upon cover design. People hold a lot of these issues close to heart.. so, of course, things will get heated. It's to be expected. I think that I fall someplace in the Grey and never in the Black or the White. I'm not Red or Blue... I'm Purple.
Personally... I don't buy into that whole 'Us vs. Them' bullshit that cable T.V. tries to sell me. I'm my own person. I feel certain ways on certain subjects that agree and disagree with both Liberals and Conservatives. I feel the way I do because of people's actions... not their words and certainly not their political party affiliation.
As for respect... I believe it is earned... and not a right. The people who think I have been disrespectful to them... well, they just haven't earned my respect, yet.

Vedder316

Cosmo wrote:

As for respect... I believe it is earned... and not a right. The people who think I have been disrespectful to them... well, they just haven't earned my respect, yet.

Yes but no need to be rude to some one who has different beliefs than yours. You dont have to agree or respect their opinion/beliefs but respect the person.

Commy

Vedder316 wrote:

Yes but no need to be rude to some one who has different beliefs than yours. You dont have to agree or respect their opinion/beliefs but respect the person.

eh, we all love pearljam, don't see why its so hard to respect eachother.

Vedder316

Commy wrote:

eh, we all love pearljam, don't see why its so hard to respect eachother.

Indeed

sponger

Commy wrote:

eh, we all love pearljam, don't see why its so hard to respect eachother.

Yes, but I love pearl jam more than you do.

Commy

sponger wrote:

Yes, but I love pearl jam more than you do.

that'ts the thing. that's not possible. Neocons are outsiders.