Obama: Oratory and originality

Byrnzie

anotherclone wrote:

Really, people that are so worried about Barack Obama ought to go into an underground bomb shelter for the next 4 years. I mean, you should all collect your things and go to a bomb shelter together and just wring your hands and worry. And occasionally e-mail about the coming armageddon, or whatever.

...and maybe burn a few crosses.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

realtor1 wrote:

yes a terrific intelligent speaker who screwed us all into believing.. we are doomed... if everyone would have checked his own writings, quotes and his record, they would of seen the evil in this man.. he is anti-american. He will rule to benefit the islamics.. He is a muslim and finally told us in the end.. he wants our guns, he wants our beliefs to be swayed to his own beliefs. He is a socialist with communist beliefs' We are Doomed..he is 50% african muslim and 50% white.. that looks and talks presidential and lied his way through it all..

Obama is not directly anti-american. He is in a sense, but not directly. It's by proxy through Israel, and through blindly supporting their racist apartheid policies. To say he is outright anti-American is absolutely false and very misleading.

He will not rule to benefit the "islamics" ...quite the opposite actually.

His ethnicity has nothing to do with anything. Zip. It's utter nonsense, and mindless vitriol. The socialism aspect is overblown propaganda when gauged against reality. He does want tighter gun restrictions however, yes.

The issues will arise from blindly supporting a failed Zionist ideology, and appointing a team of zionists mindsets in the white house, which will result in a wheels spinning in the sand in terms of progress. His opinion is that Jerusalem will remain an Israel only place of existence. This is a counter productive mentality in terms of a solution, and working towards the two state solution.

Your viewpoint borders on counter intelligence.

acutejam

Well, back to the topic at hand. I feel dismayed by crediting Obama with being a master of "rhetoric." Public speaking, sure sure, I bow to the master. I'll even give him a nod as an orator -- but he's certainly stronger reading a speech than debating, thinking on his feet. (Who wouldn't be, really....)

As for rhetoric, the art of practical wisdom and decision making -- I just have to return to the common theme: show me the evidence. He's just not left enough tracks yet for me to gauge. I'll grant his speeches display a measure of practical wisdom, he's certainly run a wise political course and that's a credit to his decision making.

But I just keep wondering ... where's the substance? The recent quote on 60 minutes: “What you see in FDR that I hope my team can emulate is not always getting it right, but projecting a sense of confidence and a willingness to try things and experiment in order to get people working again.”

WTF?!?!?! NO NO NO! I NEED YOU TO GET THIS SHIT RIGHT! Care less if you project confidence while doing it. And am esp bothered by experimenting with my nation, esp when many of these experiments have already been run here and abroad.

Projecting a sense of confidence? How'd that work out for Bush?

Byrnzie

acutejam wrote:

Projecting a sense of confidence? How'd that work out for Bush?

Bush projected a sense of confidence? I must have missed that one.

El_Kabong

Byrnzie wrote:

True.
Though I wonder if it would be acceptable to him if Obama were a Grand Wizard of the Klan?

that's not a religion

El_Kabong

Byrnzie wrote:

Why do you assume that I'm a 'gal'?

how can ya not think of a girl w/ a name like byrnzie??

Byrnzie

El_Kabong wrote:

how can ya not think of a girl w/ a name like byrnzie??

:eek:

El_Kabong

Byrnzie wrote:

:eek:

i was being sarcastic as in it makes me think of anything but

Kann

MrBrian wrote:

But Obama's professions of support for Israel during the election campaign "confirmed to the Ummah (Islamic world) that you have chosen a stance of hostility to Islam and Muslims," al-Zawahri said.

This type of rethoric right there is not only stupid, it's also very dangerous to identify muslim faith to the Israel/Palestine conflict (it's done by both sides obviously).
Other than that, very interesting article.

Byrnzie

El_Kabong wrote:

that's not a religion

Hmm, this made me investigate. I think the question of whether the Klan is or isn't a religion is debatable...

http://rexcurry.net/kkk-ku-klux-klan-christian-socialism.html

'..The raised-arm salute originated in the U.S. in the early Pledge of Allegiance to the U.S. flag and it was the origin of the salute of the German National Socialists, as shown in recent discoveries by the historian Dr. Rex Curry (author of "Pledge of Allegiance Secrets"). The USA used the straight arm salute to the national flag for three decades before German National Socialists started doing the same thing. It is more accurate to say that the NSGWP was influenced by socialists in the U.S. and within the hooded group.

..The straight-arm salute was created (1892) by Francis Bellamy, a minister who lost his position because he used the pulpit to push what he called "Christian Socialism" in sermons on themes like "Jesus the Socialist."

..They called their dogma "Military Socialism" because they admired the military and wanted all of society to emulate the military system to create an army of God as an industrial army.

Both Bellamys worked together to promote Christian Socialism and Military Socialism and they wanted the government to take over all schools to spread their dogma and create their Army of the Lord. It was consistent with the insertion of "Under God" in the Pledge by the Knights of Columbus...

Many people marveled at Adolf Hilter's "hypnotic" powers of propaganda, as if he was the first of his kind as head of the National Socialist German Workers Party. Adolf Hitler's propaganda had already been pioneered by Francis Bellamy, Edward Bellamy and American socialists. Francis Bellamy's original Columbus Day program was a blueprint of nationwide propaganda for socialism in government schools. They put government flags over schools, in classrooms and everywhere.

Edward Bellamy and Francis Bellamy even put flags (and chanting to flags) in churches in another eerie parallel followed later by Adolf Hitler.

Many people considered the raised-arm salute to the national flag to be sacrilegious worship of government and socialism. Religious people had good reasons to consider the pledge / salute to be sacrilegious, in that Germans used the ritual toward their flag, the swastika flag, which the Germans did not call a swastika flag. Germans called their symbol a Hakenkreuz, not a swastika. Hakenkreuz means "hooked cross."

Most people do not know that a cross was worshiped as the notorious symbol of the National Socialist German Workers' Party. It is one of the biggest cover-ups in history. The hooked cross became a symbol of Christian Socialism.

In the USA the hooked cross was a common symbol and was referred to as a cross (armed cross, twisted cross, lucky cross, crooked cross, hooked cross) before "swastika" became dominant. The eventual dominance of "swastika" occurred in part to distance the cross from German Christian Socialism, by slandering a foreign symbol ("Swastika" is Sanskrit, not German).

Although the swastika was an ancient symbol, the noted cryptographer and symbologist Dr. Rex Curry (author of "Swastika Secrets") discovered that it was also used sometimes by German National Socialists to represent "S" letters for their "socialism." With a 45 degree turn of his Hakenkreuz, and by pointing new uses clockwise, the leader of German National Socialists highlighted the "S" shapes to combine the cross with collectivism, merge church and state, mesh religion and socialism, and mandate the worship of government. He altered his own signature to use the same symbolism and similar alphabetic symbolism still shows on Volkswagens. http://rexcurry.net/book1a1contents-swastika.html

Support for Dr. Curry's work comes from other authors who believe the Holocaust under the National Socialist German Workers Party was an inquisition (including religious persecution) undertaken by the leader of German National Socialism under his religious and racial beliefs...

The National Socialist German Workers Party (with its hooked cross) was not the first group to turn a cross into a symbol of death and execution.

Constantine claimed to have a vision before a battle in which he saw a cross as a sword and the words "In this sign conquer." Constantine instructed his men to fashion a sword in the form of a cross and it was carried into victorious battle. It is known as "Constantine's Sword." Thus the cross, a form of execution and death before Constantine, was transformed into another form of execution and death under Constantine. Under Constantine a person would not be killed on a cross, but he would be killed or decapitated with a cross-shaped sword.

It was under Constantine that the cross became popularized as a symbol of Christianity. Before then the common symbols of Christianity included a fish, a lamb, and a shepherd. The crucifix and the cross spread, even as modern jewelry (it is interesting to note that after the guillotine was invented, jewelry (including earrings) were made in the form of miniature guillotines, in a fashion that is similar to modern jewelry in the form of small crosses and crucifixes, also tools of execution similar to the guillotine). Cross-shaped swords were the weapons of the crusades.

Crusades were not just about killing muslims. Crusades were about killing anyone who was not a christian (that included the slaughter of Hebrews).'

Kat

Byrnzie wrote:

I know they're watching me. :waves:

::waves::

decides2dream

man, i love it when kat shows her humorous side.





on the topic...good article.
after bush as president, just about anyone would appear and sound *better*...not a tough act to follow. however, it IS true, no matter what one may think of his actual words or presidency, he IS a very good speaker. i like the way the writer edxplained it as well; the candence in his voice, the musical quality, changes of tone...pauses....ALL add up to an effective and influential speaker. i also think his *calm* demeanor is VERY appealing, especially as a president. he comes across as calm, cool and collected....not apt to rash decisions, but thoughtful and studied....again, all good traits. time will tell if the actions match the words and speaking style.....but no matter what, he's a very good speaker, and probably will only get better as his 'comfort' within his new position grows.


*someone posted a link to an absolutely fabulous 7 part series of articles in newsweek not too long ago, a GREAT read on the campaign trail...and also referenced numerous times obama's *calm*....and i think it's most definitely a positive.

Byrnzie

decides2dream wrote:

man, i love it when kat shows her humorous side.





on the topic...good article.
after bush as president, just about anyone would appear and sound *better*...not a tough act to follow. however, it IS true, no matter what one may think of his actual words or presidency, he IS a very good speaker. i like the way the writer edxplained it as well; the candence in his voice, the musical quality, changes of tone...pauses....ALL add up to an effective and influential speaker. i also think his *calm* demeanor is VERY appealing, especially as a president. he comes across as calm, cool and collected....not apt to rash decisions, but thoughtful and studied....again, all good traits. time will tell if the actions match the words and speaking style.....but no matter what, he's a very good speaker, and probably will only get better as his 'comfort' within his new position grows.


*someone posted a link to an absolutely fabulous 7 part series of articles in newsweek not too long ago, a GREAT read on the campaign trail...and also referenced numerous times obama's *calm*....and i think it's most definitely a positive.

Yeah, I like this line:

"He is close to singing, just as preaching is close to singing. All writing is a rhythm of kinds and he brings it out, hits the tune. It's about the tune, not the lyrics, with Obama."

Although let us hope that he's not just whistling Dixie - I think the article makes a good case for this not being the case. (Did I just use the word case twice in the same sentence?) Anyway, I think he'll make a great President. (Although seeing his name mentioned in the same sentence as Lincoln and Martin Luther King Jr made me wince slightly, as we all know what happened to them).

decides2dream

Byrnzie wrote:

Yeah, I like this line:

"He is close to singing, just as preaching is close to singing. All writing is a rhythm of kinds and he brings it out, hits the tune. It's about the tune, not the lyrics, with Obama."

Although let us hope that he's not just whistling Dixie - I think the article makes a good case for this not being the case. (Did I just use the word case twice in the same sentence?) Anyway, I think he'll make a great President. (Although seeing his name mentioned in the same sentence as Lincoln and Martin Luther King Jr made me wince slightly, as we all know what happened to them).

funny, i really enjoyed that line as well.


*edit - although i think with obama the lyrics ARE as important as the tune, though. i *get* the point.....but i believe the substance of the words are equally important to him as the style, but he delivers with such style, absolutely.


and i agree, and i personally don't see that as being the case either but we shall see, won't we? and YES...winced for that, and yes....don't know if he belongs in such company either, not yet anyway......again, we shall see.


his acceptance speech in grant park was fantastic...his words AND delivery.

pearljamfan1212

Byrnzie wrote:

It's a sloppy piece of pasted together crap.

Byrnzie wrote:

This is just bullshit. Next.

Byrnzie wrote:

This is horseshit.

Byrnzie wrote:

I can't be arsed to trawl the rest of these crappy clips.

Byrnzie wrote:

Cool. You couldn't go grab me a six-pack and some salted peanuts could ya?

as much as this realtor guy is off base, these replies don't do much for you either

RolandTD20Kdrummer

Byrnzie wrote:

I also think that if he hadn't toed the line to some degree re: support of Israel, he'd have never been elected. The Jewish lobby would not have permitted him to get elected. Now that he's President - or soon enough - we'll just have to wait and see what he does. Either way, I'm sure he won't be as hawkish re: Israel as McCain would have been.

Absolutely. One need only to look so far as Hagee, to realise how absolutely serious this religious prophecy/pick-a-side issue has become at the highest levels.

It's very much a religious ideological war now as well.

Church and state...we'll see how far the two are actually separated.

time will tell, I still have hope, but it is being tested so to speak. Ironic how I feel like Obama is like a deity of some sort, and I have to keep some sort of faith towards him.


For his sake, and world, I hope he proves my criticisms wrong at every avenue.

Byrnzie

pearljamfan1212 wrote:

as much as this realtor guy is off base, these replies don't do much for you either

O.k. So how else would you describe the various Youtube clips, and religious mumbo-jumbo webpages he posted?

Are you seriously trying to convince me that you're offended by the word bullshit?? Because If you are then I don't believe you.

pearljamfan1212

Byrnzie wrote:

O.k. So how else would you describe the various Youtube clips, and religious mumbo-jumbo webpages he posted?

Are you seriously trying to convince me that you're offended by the word bullshit?? Because If you are then I don't believe you.

no, I'm not offended by anything you said. maybe I was just expecting a better argument then "thats bullshit"

Byrnzie

pearljamfan1212 wrote:

no, I'm not offended by anything you said. maybe I was just expecting a better argument then "thats bullshit"

I like to keep my replies simple and to the point.

Byrnzie

pearljamfan1212 wrote:

no, I'm not offended by anything you said. maybe I was just expecting a better argument then "thats bullshit"

Although, actually, you shortened all of my replies in your original post. I wonder why you went to the trouble to do that?

Anyway, my replies actually went like this:

Byrnzie wrote:

This youtube clip holds no weight. It's a sloppy piece of pasted together crap. How about digging up the original Associated press article for us so we can see exactly what it said?

Byrnzie wrote:

This is just church inspired bullshit. Next.

Byrnzie wrote:

This is horseshit. I asked you to provide evidence that he's a Muslim. Not that there's anything wrong with being a Muslim. But all you've done is repeat your claim that he's a Muslim. Sorry, not good enough. Next:

Byrnzie wrote:

Wow! So the Republicans make a t.v advert during their Presidential campaign featuring some bible-thumping redneck saying that he's worried Obama will take his guns away. So what?

I can't be arsed to trawl the rest of these crappy Youtube conspiracy clips, Clergy Council articles, and pro McCain webpages. I'm bored already. Suffice it to say, you've not convinced me.

So, O.k, I admit it's not exactly textbook stuff, but I don't understand why you felt the need to shorten my posts and then re-post them all as a way of criticizing them/me.

I also see that you've only posted on the board 15 times. Interesting.