Concidering that my parent's are Cuban immigrants and I'm in the midst of getting my masters in History focusing on South/Central American history I'm damn sure I know a hell of a lot more than you do. You have no idea what Che did to my parent's country and the people there. Your romantic ideal of Che border on pathetic. Maybe it is you who should crack open a book and learn the real history of South American. Maybe next time it will help prevent you from sounding like an ignorant ass.
Sorry about the history lesson but as you may tell this is an important topic for me that hits very close to home. I tend to get a bit over-enthusiastic when it comes to discussing Cuba.
what do you think would be in the best interest of the cuba people moving forward. what do you think it will take for the US to lift the embargo?
would big america corporation involvement be a good thing? i.e luxury hotels popping up all over the beaches..
what do you think would be in the best interest of the cuba people moving forward. what do you think it will take for the US to lift the embargo?
would big america corporation involvement be a good thing? i.e luxury hotels popping up all over the beaches..
Obviously a democratic form of government would be the first step. Second would be for all industry to be taken out from under government ownership and given back to the Cuban people where it belongs.
As for the embargo it will take a whole generation of Cubans passing away. The exile generation has formed a very powerfull lobby and it is they who continue to pressure our government to keep up the embargo. Many of the Cuban-Americans of my generation feel that the embargo is antiquated and utterly useless. Many feel that it is time for the US to change it's policy towards Cuba but unfortunetly we are not as unified or politically motivated as our parents or grandparents generation. It is sad to say but once those generations have based on the pressure will not be there to continue the embargo. The only other way it will be lifted is if the Cuban government, after Castro's death, decides to move to a more democratic system, but chances of that are slim to none.
US corporate involvment in Cuba would not necessarily be a bad thing as long as the interests of those corporations do not supercede the interests of the Cuban people. If and when Cuba ever does move towards democracy there will need to be some foreign investment in the country in order to update it's infastructure. Cuba does not have the capital nor the resources to do it alone.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
Yes there definitely was a possibility that the US and Castro could have gotten along. At first they did but it wasn't until outside influences presurred Castro and the US to turn away from reconciliation. And as to your last question No I do not agree with the stance the US took. I have never supported US policy towards Cuba. The Eisenhower administration allowed special interest groups and corporations to dictate US policy and the people of Cuba suffered because of it. At the same time I also blame Che and Soviet ambition for taking advantage of the situation not for some humanitarian purpose but for self serving interest.
Sorry about the history lesson but as you may tell this is an important topic for me that hits very close to home. I tend to get a bit over-enthusiastic when it comes to discussing Cuba.
thank you. tis cool about the history lesson. its to be expected. i am familiar with the cult of che, so can understand your need to lay it out. and as ive previously said, i'm still reconciling myself with that. trying to find some balance amongst both sides of the propaganda.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
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what do you think would be in the best interest of the cuba people moving forward. what do you think it will take for the US to lift the embargo?
would big america corporation involvement be a good thing? i.e luxury hotels popping up all over the beaches..
i know this wasnt directed at me but hey i can't help myself.
i think its about time for some self determination for the cuban people. if the US wasn't so blinded i believe they'd see dropping the embargo as a good thing. how could it not be? i am in favour of cuban resources staying cuban, as i am with any other countries' resources staying their own. but the injection of capital from whoever(not necessarily US) would help cuba prosper. i know a lot of people find cuba quaint the way she is (even i'm guilty of that in my worst fuck america moments) but she needs help.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
i think its about time for some self determination for the cuban people. if the US wasn't so blinded i believe they'd see dropping the embargo as a good thing. how could it not be? i am in favour of cuban resources staying cuban, as i am with any other countries' resources staying their own. but the injection of capital from whoever(not necessarily US) would help cuba prosper. i know a lot of people find cuba quaint the way she is (even i'm guilty of that in my worst fuck america moments) but she needs help.
I couldn't agree more. Well said.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
Obviously a democratic form of government would be the first step. Second would be for all industry to be taken out from under government ownership and given back to the Cuban people where it belongs.
As for the embargo it will take a whole generation of Cubans passing away. The exile generation has formed a very powerfull lobby and it is they who continue to pressure our government to keep up the embargo. Many of the Cuban-Americans of my generation feel that the embargo is antiquated and utterly useless. Many feel that it is time for the US to change it's policy towards Cuba but unfortunetly we are not as unified or politically motivated as our parents or grandparents generation. It is sad to say but once those generations have based on the pressure will not be there to continue the embargo. The only other way it will be lifted is if the Cuban government, after Castro's death, decides to move to a more democratic system, but chances of that are slim to none.
US corporate involvment in Cuba would not necessarily be a bad thing as long as the interests of those corporations do not supercede the interests of the Cuban people. If and when Cuba ever does move towards democracy there will need to be some foreign investment in the country in order to update it's infastructure. Cuba does not have the capital nor the resources to do it alone.
I think the most interesting part of Post Castro Cuba is the Cuban exiles that you talk about. Many of them are going to still be arround when the regime changes hands. what is your take on them? I dont trust them on bit and I believe they are no worse than Fidel and his boys. The cuban mafia are a very extream bunch and I would bet that they will try and take over of Cuba once Fidel and his brother are gone. They will surely clash with the Cuban that did not leave the island are sufferd all those years under Fidel and there will be a struggle for all the lands. I know im just speculating but I have been arround many Cuban exiles and I dont trust them one bit.
I think the most interesting part of Post Castro Cuba is the Cuan exiles that you talk about. Many of them are going to still be arround when the regime changes hands. what is your take on them? I dont trust them on bit and I believe they are no worse than Fidel and his boys. The cuban mafia are a very extream bunch and I would bet that they will try and take over of Cuba once Fidel and his brother are gone. They will surely clash with the Cuban that did not leave the island are sufferd all those years under Fidel and there will be a struggle for all the lands. I know im just speculating but I have been arround many Cuban exiles and I dont trust them one bit.
There is a Cuban exile organization that has a government in waiting here in the states ready to take over if the Catsro regime where to fall. I find this to be unacceptable and agree with you that many of the exile groups with aspiration to seize power are probably no better than Castro himself. If the Cuban government decides to move towards democracy it needs to done from within and without undo foreign pressure and intervention. Once to move is made and a new government is established then foreign aid can come into play to help finance the rebuilding of Cuba.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
There is a Cuban exile organization that has a government in waiting here in the states ready to take over if the Catsro regime where to fall. I find this to be unacceptable and agree with you that many of the exile groups with aspiration to seize power are probably no better than Castro himself. If the Cuban government decides to move towards democracy it needs to done from within and without undo foreign pressure and intervention. Once to move is made and a new government is established then foreign aid can come into play to help finance the rebuilding of Cuba.
And Im afraid that there will be a huge power struggle because of this group. I hope that im wrong. We need a free Cuba, for me taliking about Cuba is like talking about a cousin that i cant wait to finaly spend some time with him. I very much enjoy Cuban culture and its people. Its a dam shame.
And Im afraid that there will be a huge power struggle because of this group. I hope that im wrong. We need a free Cuba, for me taliking about Cuba is like talking about a cousin that i cant wait to finaly spend some time with him. I very much enjoy Cuban culture and its people. Its a dam shame.
Well said. I look forward to Cuban self-determination as well. The US embargo is silly and has been futile. So has Castro's dictatorship. As a smoker of Cuban cigars, I also look forward to sending my dollars directly to Cuba.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
Well said. I look forward to Cuban self-determination as well. The US embargo is silly and has been futile. So has Castro's dictatorship. As a smoker of Cuban cigars, I also look forward to sending my dollars directly to Cuba.
I dream of the day when I can sit at a cafe in the Plaza Central, in a free Cuba, smoking a Cuban Cohiba while enjoying a mojito.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
what is the mindset of the cuban people in cuba. do they want democracy or have they been brainwashed into thinking democracy is evil.
you might agree, but I do not see change happening unless the cuban people revolt against a dictator.
It is hard to tell what the Cuban people think because they are so affraid to speak out. On every block there lives someone who basically reports back any type dissident activity to the government. It is usually an everyday average person who is offered some incentive, be it more food, money or luxury items, by the government to keep an eye out for any criticism of the regime. Most civilians don't even know who this person is so they tend to keep quiet.
I agree with you. The communist system is so entrenched in Cuba that real change will only come at the hands of a revolution.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
It is hard to tell what the Cuban people think because they are so affraid to speak out. On every block there lives someone who basically reports back any type dissident activity to the government. It is usually an everyday average person who is offered some incentive, be it more food, money or luxury items, by the government to keep an eye out for any criticism of the regime. Most civilians don't even know who this person is so they tend to keep quiet.
I agree with you. The communist system is so entrenched in Cuba that real change will only come at the hands of a revolution.
this is not what socialism is about. tis a bastardisation.
god i can't wait til i rule the world.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
this is not what socialism is about. tis a bastardisation.
god i can't wait til i rule the world.
It is definitely not socialism. That is why people like Che and Fidel should never be revered. Yes they fought against US imperialsim which was choking the life out of Central/South America but in return they set up governments who where equally if not more oppressive.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
It is definitely not socialism. That is why people like Che and Fidel should never be revered. Yes they fought against US imperialsim which was choking the life out of Central/South America but in return they set up governments who where equally if not more oppressive.
in people like byzines eyes, it doesnt matter. he falls on the side of whoever is against the US no matter what the consequences.
It is definitely not socialism. That is why people like Che and Fidel should never be revered. Yes they fought against US imperialsim which was choking the life out of Central/South America but in return they set up governments who where equally if not more oppressive.
i think Cuba was just a victim of the cold war. Many factors influenced the decisions of Castro and his revolution. The power struggle between the US and Russia basically steered Fidel into what is now a dictatorship. That Fidel is one stubburn SOB.
in people like byzines eyes, it doesnt matter. he falls on the side of whoever is against the US no matter what the consequences.
No offense to Byrnzie but having been born in a democracy and lived in a democracy all his life, he really doesn't know what the fuck he is talking about when it comes to how great communism is. Now I too was born and raised in a democracy, but I at least have parents, grandparenst, aunt, uncles, and cousins who where born and lived in a communist country. From what they have told me it wasn't a pleasent experience. So in short he can blow all the smoke he wants about the free healthcare and the free education, but until you actually live there and experience the oppression your opinion isn't really worth shit.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
in people like byzines eyes, it doesnt matter. he falls on the side of whoever is against the US no matter what the consequences.
truth be told, i'm more often than not on the opposing side to the US as well. tis not a knee jerk reaction though and if you can show me i'm wrong, then i can accept that. there was a time when i was so proamerican i wouldve tattooed the bald eagle on my arse, but ive woken up a bit since then and no longer see the US as the great and powerful oz.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
i think Cuba was just a victim of the cold war. Many factors influenced the decisions of Castro and his revolution. The power struggle between the US and Russia basically steered Fidel into what is now a dictatorship. That Fidel is one stubburn SOB.
I definetly agree. Cuba was a pawn in the Cold War, but I think that Fidel would have been a dictator regardless. The condictions in the country may have been better had events not transpired as they did but I don't think Fidel would have stepped down or faced a real election against a real opponent anytime in his life.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
I definetly agree. Cuba was a pawn in the Cold War, but I think that Fidel would have been a dictator regardless. The condictions in the country may have been better had events not transpired as they did but I don't think Fidel would have stepped down or faced a real election against a real opponent anytime in his life.
If we were to iliminate the intimidation factors from the post revolution I dont think that Fidel would have needed to be so bad with his own people.
.... So in short he can blow all the smoke he wants about the free healthcare and the free education, but until you actually live there and experience the oppression your opinion isn't really worth shit.
i live in a country with free health care and free education.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Comments
In internet terms, we call this being owned.
what do you think would be in the best interest of the cuba people moving forward. what do you think it will take for the US to lift the embargo?
would big america corporation involvement be a good thing? i.e luxury hotels popping up all over the beaches..
Obviously a democratic form of government would be the first step. Second would be for all industry to be taken out from under government ownership and given back to the Cuban people where it belongs.
As for the embargo it will take a whole generation of Cubans passing away. The exile generation has formed a very powerfull lobby and it is they who continue to pressure our government to keep up the embargo. Many of the Cuban-Americans of my generation feel that the embargo is antiquated and utterly useless. Many feel that it is time for the US to change it's policy towards Cuba but unfortunetly we are not as unified or politically motivated as our parents or grandparents generation. It is sad to say but once those generations have based on the pressure will not be there to continue the embargo. The only other way it will be lifted is if the Cuban government, after Castro's death, decides to move to a more democratic system, but chances of that are slim to none.
US corporate involvment in Cuba would not necessarily be a bad thing as long as the interests of those corporations do not supercede the interests of the Cuban people. If and when Cuba ever does move towards democracy there will need to be some foreign investment in the country in order to update it's infastructure. Cuba does not have the capital nor the resources to do it alone.
thank you. tis cool about the history lesson. its to be expected. i am familiar with the cult of che, so can understand your need to lay it out. and as ive previously said, i'm still reconciling myself with that. trying to find some balance amongst both sides of the propaganda.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
i know this wasnt directed at me but hey i can't help myself.
i think its about time for some self determination for the cuban people. if the US wasn't so blinded i believe they'd see dropping the embargo as a good thing. how could it not be? i am in favour of cuban resources staying cuban, as i am with any other countries' resources staying their own. but the injection of capital from whoever(not necessarily US) would help cuba prosper. i know a lot of people find cuba quaint the way she is (even i'm guilty of that in my worst fuck america moments) but she needs help.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I couldn't agree more. Well said.
I think the most interesting part of Post Castro Cuba is the Cuban exiles that you talk about. Many of them are going to still be arround when the regime changes hands. what is your take on them? I dont trust them on bit and I believe they are no worse than Fidel and his boys. The cuban mafia are a very extream bunch and I would bet that they will try and take over of Cuba once Fidel and his brother are gone. They will surely clash with the Cuban that did not leave the island are sufferd all those years under Fidel and there will be a struggle for all the lands. I know im just speculating but I have been arround many Cuban exiles and I dont trust them one bit.
There is a Cuban exile organization that has a government in waiting here in the states ready to take over if the Catsro regime where to fall. I find this to be unacceptable and agree with you that many of the exile groups with aspiration to seize power are probably no better than Castro himself. If the Cuban government decides to move towards democracy it needs to done from within and without undo foreign pressure and intervention. Once to move is made and a new government is established then foreign aid can come into play to help finance the rebuilding of Cuba.
And Im afraid that there will be a huge power struggle because of this group. I hope that im wrong. We need a free Cuba, for me taliking about Cuba is like talking about a cousin that i cant wait to finaly spend some time with him. I very much enjoy Cuban culture and its people. Its a dam shame.
Well said. I look forward to Cuban self-determination as well. The US embargo is silly and has been futile. So has Castro's dictatorship. As a smoker of Cuban cigars, I also look forward to sending my dollars directly to Cuba.
I dream of the day when I can sit at a cafe in the Plaza Central, in a free Cuba, smoking a Cuban Cohiba while enjoying a mojito.
me too.
what is the mindset of the cuban people in cuba. do they want democracy or have they been brainwashed into thinking democracy is evil.
you might agree, but I do not see change happening unless the cuban people revolt against a dictator.
It is hard to tell what the Cuban people think because they are so affraid to speak out. On every block there lives someone who basically reports back any type dissident activity to the government. It is usually an everyday average person who is offered some incentive, be it more food, money or luxury items, by the government to keep an eye out for any criticism of the regime. Most civilians don't even know who this person is so they tend to keep quiet.
I agree with you. The communist system is so entrenched in Cuba that real change will only come at the hands of a revolution.
you wont get one. but worth a shot I guess. I'd love to see his usual American Nazism reference or something.
Well I thought I would offer him up the chance for a rebuttal.
this is not what socialism is about. tis a bastardisation.
god i can't wait til i rule the world.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
It is definitely not socialism. That is why people like Che and Fidel should never be revered. Yes they fought against US imperialsim which was choking the life out of Central/South America but in return they set up governments who where equally if not more oppressive.
in people like byzines eyes, it doesnt matter. he falls on the side of whoever is against the US no matter what the consequences.
i think Cuba was just a victim of the cold war. Many factors influenced the decisions of Castro and his revolution. The power struggle between the US and Russia basically steered Fidel into what is now a dictatorship. That Fidel is one stubburn SOB.
No offense to Byrnzie but having been born in a democracy and lived in a democracy all his life, he really doesn't know what the fuck he is talking about when it comes to how great communism is. Now I too was born and raised in a democracy, but I at least have parents, grandparenst, aunt, uncles, and cousins who where born and lived in a communist country. From what they have told me it wasn't a pleasent experience. So in short he can blow all the smoke he wants about the free healthcare and the free education, but until you actually live there and experience the oppression your opinion isn't really worth shit.
truth be told, i'm more often than not on the opposing side to the US as well. tis not a knee jerk reaction though and if you can show me i'm wrong, then i can accept that. there was a time when i was so proamerican i wouldve tattooed the bald eagle on my arse, but ive woken up a bit since then and no longer see the US as the great and powerful oz.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I definetly agree. Cuba was a pawn in the Cold War, but I think that Fidel would have been a dictator regardless. The condictions in the country may have been better had events not transpired as they did but I don't think Fidel would have stepped down or faced a real election against a real opponent anytime in his life.
If we were to iliminate the intimidation factors from the post revolution I dont think that Fidel would have needed to be so bad with his own people.
Probably not but who is to say that there would not have been people within his own country who had a desire to dispose him.
of course but hey were just speculating at this point.
i live in a country with free health care and free education.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Usually populist revolutionaries are dictators in waiting.
Yes but you don't have a communist dictator at the helm.
Nothing in this world is free except if you are lucky....family love, everything else is earned by someone.