Cuba pays tribute to Che Guevara

Byrnzie

Cuba pays tribute to Che Guevara
Monday, 8 October 2007, 21:11 GMT 22:11 UK

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7033880.stm
The memory of Latin American Marxist revolutionary Ernesto Che Guevara is being honoured in Cuba 40 years after his capture and summary execution.

About 10,000 people are attending a ceremony at his mausoleum in Santa Clara, the town where he once fought a battle during Cuba's revolution.

Raul Castro, brother of ailing Cuban leader Fidel, is at the event.

Other commemorations are being held in Bolivia and Venezuela, countries where the Argentine-born hero was active.

He had travelled to Bolivia to help lead an uprising but was tracked down and killed by soldiers in 1967.

Che's ideas and looks have been captivating young people across the world since the late 1960s, his bearded face and beret acquiring iconic status.

His critics describe Che as a brutal man who ordered the execution of dozens of his opponents and helped move Cuba further towards communism in the early years of the revolution.

The ceremony in Santa Clara opened with Raul Castro reading out a message from Fidel.

"I halt in my day-to-day combat to bow my head, with respect and gratitude, before the exceptional fighter who fell 40 years ago," the message said.

Suffering from intestinal illness, the 81-year-old Cuban leader handed over power to Raul 14 months ago.

Che's daughter Aleida Guevara said her father's work had been vindicated by the recent leftward shift in Latin America.

"Today Latin America begins to awaken and their dreams are coming true," she said in the mausoleum.

In Bolivia, the leftist President, Evo Morales, visited the site where Che was first buried after his execution, and addressed a crowd of mourners on a windswept hill just outside Vallegrande.

"Che lives," he said.

"His heroic struggle and that of other revolutionaries will continue until savage capitalism is changed.

"Latin America cannot continue being the backyard of American imperialism."

In Venezuela, President Hugo Chavez described Che as an "infinite revolutionary" in a speech on TV just before the anniversary.

Cubans honour Che as a hero
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7033432.stm

mookie blaylock 10

thanks for posting this, byrnzie.

Indifference

a good book on the subject:

http://www.amazon.com/Exposing-Real-Che-Guevara-Idolize/dp/1595230270

mammasan

I don't know why they would.

LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun

Che had so much of an impact on the fashion industry that he should be celebrated.


All those cool rebellious wannabe commie teenagers and their Che shirts are all the rage.

810wmb

MrSmith wrote:

Che had so much of an impact on the fashion industry that he should be celebrated.


All those cool rebellious wannabe commie teenagers and their Che shirts are all the rage.

hehehhe, where was jimmy carter?

Byrnzie

mammasan wrote:

I don't know why they would.

Then you understand nothing about Cuba or Latin American history and politics.

jeffbr

Byrnzie wrote:

Then you understand nothing about Cuba or Latin American history and politics.

Wow. I'm pretty sure Mammasan traces his roots to Cuba, and not so very long ago.

Byrnzie

jeffbr wrote:

Wow. I'm pretty sure Mammasan traces his roots to Cuba, and not so very long ago.

So?

jeffbr

Byrnzie wrote:

So?

So I'm guessing he actually understands something about Cuba and Latin American history and politics, and likely has a closer perspective than a Marxist Brit living in South Korea who seems to hold Che in high esteem.

It's all opinion here, but to hold the opinion that he knows nothing about the history of the country of his forefathers is silly.

Byrnzie

jeffbr wrote:

So I'm guessing he actually understands something about Cuba and Latin American history and politics, and likely has a closer perspective than a Marxist Brit living in South Korea who seems to hold Che in high esteem.

It's all opinion here, but to hold the opinion that he knows nothing about the history of the country of his forefathers is silly.

I think the people living there would have a clearer perspective on things.

Pearler

He was a turd that floated for a little while, happened to killed a few people on his travels and his only friend was Castro.

Just my opinion.

catefrances

personally i am still trying to reconcile my feelings towards guevera.

Byrnzie

Pearler wrote:

He was a turd that floated for a little while, happened to killed a few people on his travels and his only friend was Castro.

Just my opinion.

So nevermind that he played a central role in helping Cuba gain independence from U.S imperialism.

catefrances

Byrnzie wrote:

So nevermind that he played a central role in helping Cuba gain independence from U.S imperialism.

amongst other things he did. and not just for cuba.

810wmb

Byrnzie wrote:

So nevermind that he played a central role in helping Cuba gain independence from U.S imperialism.

and the cubans are so happy about, they get in shitty little boats risking everything to come here

Byrnzie

810wmb wrote:

and the cubans are so happy about, they get in shitty little boats risking everything to come here

I wonder if the illegal U.S blockade of Cuba, and the resulting poverty, has anything to do with that?

catefrances

Byrnzie wrote:

I wonder if the illegal U.S blockade of Cuba, and the resulting poverty, has anything to do with that?

jeez steve, surely you don't expect the US to swallow their wounded pride and treat cuba like they do every other tyrannical country. pfft. :rolleyes: you're dreaming.

810wmb

Byrnzie wrote:

I wonder if the illegal U.S blockade of Cuba, and the resulting poverty, has anything to do with that?

once again proving all good things come from the u.s, we are the horn of plenty for the world...

or it's our freaking fault for everything that happens in the world.

catefrances

810wmb wrote:

once again proving all good things come from the u.s, we are the horn of plenty for the world...

or it's our freaking fault for everything that happens in the world.

when the most powerful country on earth blockades your country and economically threatens any other country that even thinks of trading with you, responsibility is laid where it is due. i realise the bullshit level is so high the US administration can't even see, but nearly 50 years of this hypocrisy is enough.

810wmb

catefrances wrote:

when the most powerful country on earth blockades your country and economically threatens any other country that even thinks of trading with you, responsibility is laid where it is due. i realise the bullshit level is so high the US administration can't even see, but nearly 50 years of this hypocrisy is enough.

our country does not support communism...tough crap for them...

just like you don't support some things, our country doesn't support some things

catefrances

810wmb wrote:

our country does not support communism...tough crap for them...

just like you don't support some things, our country doesn't support some things

and yet washington seems to have no problem dealing with china. why is that you reckon?

mammasan

Byrnzie wrote:

Then you understand nothing about Cuba or Latin American history and politics.

Concidering that my parent's are Cuban immigrants and I'm in the midst of getting my masters in History focusing on South/Central American history I'm damn sure I know a hell of a lot more than you do. You have no idea what Che did to my parent's country and the people there. Your romantic ideal of Che border on pathetic. Maybe it is you who should crack open a book and learn the real history of South American. Maybe next time it will help prevent you from sounding like an ignorant ass.

catefrances

mammasan wrote:

Concidering that my parent's are Cuban immigrants and I'm in the midst of getting my masters in History focusing on South/Central American history I'm damn sure I know a hell of a lot more than you do. You have no idea what Che did to my parent's country and the people there. Your romantic ideal of Che border on pathetic. Maybe it is you who should crack open a book and learn the real history of South American. Maybe next time it will help prevent you from sounding like an ignorant ass.

so can i ask you opinion on whether you think the overthrowing of the batista regime was a good thing at the time. do you think there could have been any possibility the US administration could have worked with the castro government. do you think the US admin was correct in the stance they took? thank you in advance.

Heineken Helen

mammasan wrote:

Concidering that my parent's are Cuban immigrants and I'm in the midst of getting my masters in History focusing on South/Central American history I'm damn sure I know a hell of a lot more than you do. You have no idea what Che did to my parent's country and the people there. Your romantic ideal of Che border on pathetic. Maybe it is you who should crack open a book and learn the real history of South American. Maybe next time it will help prevent you from sounding like an ignorant ass.

sorry byrnzie, ya know I love ya, but this IS funny

Heineken Helen

mammasan wrote:

Concidering that my parent's are Cuban immigrants and I'm in the midst of getting my masters in History focusing on South/Central American history I'm damn sure I know a hell of a lot more than you do. You have no idea what Che did to my parent's country and the people there. Your romantic ideal of Che border on pathetic. Maybe it is you who should crack open a book and learn the real history of South American. Maybe next time it will help prevent you from sounding like an ignorant ass.

are there any completely non biased books you could recommend? I generally keep quiet on opinions of cuba cos it really does depend who you speak to as to whether they were young men with ideals that just can't work in a capitalistic world... or whether they were murdering bastards.

Either way, I do like the ideas behind the history.

TheVoiceInside

810wmb wrote:

and the cubans are so happy about, they get in shitty little boats risking everything to come here

Dominicans get on shitty little boasts risking everything to get to Puerto Rico every day. And the DR is an independent capitalist country.

mammasan

catefrances wrote:

so can i ask you opinion on whether you think the overthrowing of the batista regime was a good thing at the time. do you think there could have been any possibility the US administration could have worked with the castro government. do you think the US admin was correct in the stance they took? thank you in advance.

Yes I believe that the overthrow of the Batista regime was a good thing. Little is said about the Batsita regime in this country but he was just as bad as Castro. The only reason the US tolerated him was because he placed US interest above and beyond the interest of his people.

When Castro first came toi power President Eisenhower embraced the change in Cuba. Even though Batista was a US puppet Washington DC was growing tired of him. The US government wanted to keep open relations with Castro and his new government. Castro was heavily influenced by Camilo Cienfuegos. Camilo was one of the four leaders of the revolution along side Fidel, his brother Raul, Huber Matos and Che. Camillo was a socialist but he was was a staunch anti-communist. He did not trust the Soviet Union and what he truely wanted for his people was agrarian reform. Cuba's main exports are all agriculturally based and US corporations like United Fruit where strangling small farmers. After the revolution Camilo idea was to reclaim the land from the corporations and to give it back to the people. Che had a different idea and that was to reclaim the land for the government as Che was a communist with close ties to the Soviets.

United Fruit and like companies started to lobby the US government, along with a strong coalition of Cuban exiles, to severe ties with Cuba and the Castro government. Of course as is custom in US politics the lobbiest and special interest groups won. After relations went sour Che wanted Castro to turn to the Soviets for help. Camilo wanted Castro to stay away from the Soviets and attempt to smooth out relations with the US. Needless to say Camilo died in a mysterious plan crash and Che became Castro's primary advisory and history played itself out.

One of the factors that greatly anger the US was the reclamation of Cuban soil from US corporations. Camilo wanted it to go to the farmers themselves Che wanted it to go to the government. Che won in that debate. While Che may grab all of the glory he cared little for the people and only cared for power. Many innocent Central/South American died because of his brutality. Many Cubans who did not care for Batista but did not join the revolution where treated in a less than civil manner by Che and his column as they march through Cuba.

For any aspiring Socialist. If you are looking for hero or idol look to Camilo Cienfuegos. He was a man who truely wanted to restore power to the people and had he not been killed Cuba would pprobably be in better shape than it is today.

catefrances

mammasan wrote:

Yes I believe that the overthrow of the Batista regime was a good thing. Little is said about the Batsita regime in this country but he was just as bad as Castro. The only reason the US tolerated him was because he placed US interest above and beyond the interest of his people.

When Castro first came toi power President Eisenhower embraced the change in Cuba. Even though Batista was a US puppet Washington DC was growing tired of him. The US government wanted to keep open relations with Castro and his new government. Castro was heavily influenced by Camilo Cienfuegos. Camilo was one of the four leaders of the revolution along side Fidel, his brother Raul, Huber Matos and Che. Camillo was a socialist but he was was a staunch anti-communist. He did not trust the Soviet Union and what he truely wanted for his people was agrarian reform. Cuba's main exports are all agriculturally based and US corporations like United Fruit where strangling small farmers. After the revolution Camilo idea was to reclaim the land from the corporations and to give it back to the people. Che had a different idea and that was to reclaim the land for the government as Che was a communist with close ties to the Soviets.

United Fruit and like companies started to lobby the US government, along with a strong coalition of Cuban exiles, to severe ties with Cuba and the Castro government. Of course as is custom in US politics the lobbiest and special interest groups won. After relations went sour Che wanted Castro to turn to the Soviets for help. Camilo wanted Castro to stay away from the Soviets and attempt to smooth out relations with the US. Needless to say Camilo died in a mysterious plan crash and Che became Castro's primary advisory and history played itself out.

One of the factors that greatly anger the US was the reclamation of Cuban soil from US corporations. Camilo wanted it to go to the farmers themselves Che wanted it to go to the government. Che won in that debate. While Che may grab all of the glory he cared little for the people and only cared for power. Many innocent Central/South American died because of his brutality. Many Cubans who did not care for Batista but did not join the revolution where treated in a less than civil manner by Che and his column as they march through Cuba.

For any aspiring Socialist. If you are looking for hero or idol look to Camilo Cienfuegos. He was a man who truely wanted to restore power to the people and had he not been killed Cuba would pprobably be in better shape than it is today.

i feel you only answered my first question. aside from your first sentence you've told me nothing i didnt already know. don't take that as hostile, i was just interested in what you thought, not a history lesson, which i don't need.

mammasan

Heineken Helen wrote:

are there any completely non biased books you could recommend? I generally keep quiet on opinions of cuba cos it really does depend who you speak to as to whether they were young men with ideals that just can't work in a capitalistic world... or whether they were murdering bastards.

Either way, I do like the ideas behind the history.

There really is no unbaised book. You basically have to read books from both sides and filter out the bullshit. Many of my lessons on Cuban history come from people that lived there. Some where Batista supporters, some where Castro supports, and most where just caught in the middle.

I believe that the revolution was founded on good intensions. Cuba and it's people have never been a free country. From Spanish Colonialism to US imperialsim to Soviet communism the people of Cuban have always been under someone else's thumb. Castro I believe truely wanted to give Cuba back to it's people but unfortunetly that did not happen. The US government, US corporate interest, Che, Castro himself, and Soviet ambition all played an equal role in destroying what was a worthy cause and a beautiful idea.

mammasan

catefrances wrote:

i feel you only answered my first question. aside from your first sentence you've told me nothing i didnt already know. don't take that as hostile, i was just interested in what you thought, not a history lesson, which i don't need.

Yes there definitely was a possibility that the US and Castro could have gotten along. At first they did but it wasn't until outside influences presurred Castro and the US to turn away from reconciliation. And as to your last question No I do not agree with the stance the US took. I have never supported US policy towards Cuba. The Eisenhower administration allowed special interest groups and corporations to dictate US policy and the people of Cuba suffered because of it. At the same time I also blame Che and Soviet ambition for taking advantage of the situation not for some humanitarian purpose but for self serving interest.

Sorry about the history lesson but as you may tell this is an important topic for me that hits very close to home. I tend to get a bit over-enthusiastic when it comes to discussing Cuba.