Bushit

Byrnzie

"Every civilised nation has a responsibility to stand up for people suffering under a brutal military regime like the one that has ruled Burma for too long." George Bush

Why are we not standing up for the Palestinians then?

dunkman

Israel isnt a brutal military regime... its a brutal military democracy

jlew24asu

Byrnzie wrote:

"Every civilised nation has a responsibility to stand up for people suffering under a brutal military regime like the one that has ruled Burma for too long." George Bush

Why are we not standing up for the Palestinians then?

the US and Israel are fully supporting abbas's government. hamas wants to destroy Israel, they can have gaza and be shunned from the rest of the world.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

Byrnzie wrote:

"Every civilised nation has a responsibility to stand up for people suffering under a brutal military regime like the one that has ruled Burma for too long." George Bush

Why are we not standing up for the Palestinians then?

Palestine...the other dark meat...

rebornFixer

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

Palestine...the other dark meat...

Interesting .. The world can rally around Burmese monks, peaceful demonstrators, while support for another oppressed group who uses violent tactics is a tad more subdued.

Anyone see a pattern?

rebornFixer

Not that I am claiming that the U.S. is actually doing anything to support said monks. Too many corporate interests could be threatened if they got involved. That too is bushit.

gue_barium

reborncareerist wrote:

Interesting .. The world can rally around Burmese monks, peaceful demonstrators, while support for another oppressed group who uses violent tactics is a tad more subdued.

Anyone see a pattern?

In that attitude, I see the lily-white North american-consumer-nothing-can-touch me-i'm always-on-the-right-side pattern of non-thought that permeates this culture.

rebornFixer

gue_barium wrote:

In that attitude, I see the lily-white North american-consumer-nothing-can-touch me-i'm always-on-the-right-side pattern of non-thought that permeates this culture.

Frankly? You see that because you're having a knee-jerk retarded wannabe revolutionary mental hiccup because you've read to much leftist propaganda moment. Stop for two seconds and think about it logically.

LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun

lets invade Bhurma

gue_barium

reborncareerist wrote:

Frankly? You see that because you're having knee-jerk retarded wannabe revolutionary mental hiccup because you've read to much leftist propaganda moment. Stop for two seconds and think about it logically.

That's a personal attack.

In any case, I'll answer. Your logic has a bottom line of violence being bad, no?
Have you never found need in your life to fight back, ever, against someone? I mean physically. If given the opportunity to fight for the lives of your family and having to take up arms to to it, would you not? Even if it meant killing someone?

gue_barium

MrSmith wrote:

lets invade Bhurma

No, let's hope the Burmese learned from the massacre of 3,000 in 1989, and do something that may surprise us all.

rebornFixer

gue_barium wrote:

That's a personal attack.

In any case, I'll answer. Your logic has a bottom line of violence being bad, no?
Have you never found need in your life to fight back, ever, against someone? I mean physically. If given the opportunity to fight for the lives of your family and take up arms to to it, would you not?

Your comment was a personal attack too, so maybe you should dial it down yourself. At least, I took it as such. "lily-white nothing can touch me" is offensive because a) I am not that type of person at all and b) I have thought a lot about the issues, as much as you probably have. Don't paint someone else with such broad strokes if you're worried about getting your brush broken.

And absolutely, I've been in that position ... Probably many times. There's a difference between fighting back and doing what Hamas does, though. The Palestinian farmer whose son got shot dead by Israeli troops is not the same person as the Hamas militant who kills his own people because they do not subscribe to his brand of fundamentalism.

gue_barium

reborncareerist wrote:

Your comment was a personal attack too, so maybe you should dial it down yourself. At least, I took it as such. "lily-white nothing can touch me" is offensive because a) I am not that type of person at all and b) I have thought a lot about the issues, as much as you probably have. Don't paint someone else with such broad strokes if you're worried about getting your brush broken.

And absolutely, I've been in that position ... Probably many times. There's a difference between fighting back and doing what Hamas does, though. The Palestinian farmer whose son got shot dead by Israeli troops is not the same person as the Hamas militant who kills his own people because they do not subscribe to his brand of fundamentalism.

But, that's just it. Following your logic, all acts of violence are senseless acts of violence. To sit here on the other side of the world and pass judgement on which side is "right" in Israel/Palestine or Hamas/Zionist is playing right into the hands of those who want you to believe it is a one-sided issue.

rebornFixer

gue_barium wrote:

But, that's just it. Following your logic, all acts of violence are senseless acts of violence. To sit here on the other side of the world and pass judgement on which side is "right" in Israel/Palestine or Hamas/Zionist is playing right into the hands of those who want you to believe it is a one-sided issue.

I've never believed that the issue was one-sided, and I am not buying into anything. I DO believe that the Palestinians do many things that make peace unlikely .... In other words, some of their actions contribute to a bad situation, and prevent many Westerners from having as much sympathy as they otherwise might. This is a moderate take on the situation, not a one-sided view. I'll also be the first person to argue that Israel should 1) return certain lands, 2) make a more serious attempt to reach a peace agreement, and 3) do more to better the lot of moderate Palestinian factions ... Actually, scratch that. They should do more to better the lot of Palestinians, period.
A huge cause of terrorism is oppression. Another huge cause of terrorism is fundamentalist ideologies. There is a link between the two, in that the latter look more appealing because of the former ... But its not JUST oppression.

gue_barium

reborncareerist wrote:

I've never believed that the issue was one-sided, and I am not buying into anything. I DO believe that the Palestinians do many things that make peace unlikely .... In other words, some of their actions contribute to a bad situation, and prevent many Westerners from having as much sympathy as they otherwise might. This is a moderate take on the situation, not a one-sided view. I'll also be the first person to argue that Israel should 1) return certain lands, 2) make a more serious attempt to reach a peace agreement, and 3) do more to better the lot of moderate Palestinian factions ... Actually, scratch that. They should do more to better the lot of Palestinians, period.
A huge cause of terrorism is oppression. Another huge cause of terrorism is fundamentalist ideologies. There is a link between the two, in that the latter look more appealing because of the former ... But its not JUST oppression.

For someone who lives so far away, you sure have a lot of ideas on what's going on over there.
I wonder where you get those ideas?
Don't answer that.

rebornFixer

gue_barium wrote:

For someone who lives so far away, you sure have a lot of ideas on what's going on over there.
I wonder where you get those ideas?
Don't answer that.

Where do you live?

Maybes there's life on Mars after all ...

gue_barium

reborncareerist wrote:

Where do you live?

Maybes there's life on Mars after all ...

Until you've lived in a situation like that, your opinion on what needs to be done to fix it comes across as exactly the type of Western non-thinking I talked about in my first reply to you.

But, maybe you'll come around.

rebornFixer

gue_barium wrote:

Until you've lived in a situation like that, your opinion on what needs to be done to fix it comes across as exactly the type of Western non-thinking I talked about in my first reply to you.

But, maybe you'll come around.

Like I said, where do you live? And no, I don't want to stalk you and don't really expect you to answer. I am guessing that you too live in North America, though, and if you're arguing that my opinion is invalid by dint of such, then I can dismiss your opinion for exactly the same reason. Maybe you've just some kid in the 'burbs whose played too many violent video games ... You're all desensitized and such. Shooting someone or blowing up cars doesn't sound like such a bad way to solve ones problems.

gue_barium

reborncareerist wrote:

Like I said, where do you live? And no, I don't want to stalk you and don't really expect you to answer. I am guessing that you too live in North America, though, and if you're arguing that my opinion is invalid by dint of such, then I can dismiss your opinion for exactly the same reason. Maybe you've just some kid in the 'burbs whose played too many violent video games ... You're all desensitized and such. Shooting someone or blowing up cars doesn't sound like such a bad way to solve ones problems.

I didn't say your opinion was invalid, to me. It is invalid to any Palestinian or Israeli. I'm sure you can see that.
In other words, it's pointless to where it matters most.

I don't know what all that other blab is about video games...

DriftingByTheStorm

reborncareerist wrote:

I DO believe that the Palestinians do many things that make peace unlikely .... In other words, some of their actions contribute to a bad situation, and prevent many Westerners from having as much sympathy as they otherwise might.

I think most westerners are "prevented from having as much sympatch as they otherwise might" by slanted and deliberately misleading news casts which always talk of "israeli DEFENSE forces" or "the israelis RESPONDED", etc etc ... when the truth is, it is the palestinians who are "responding" ...

i just don't get it.
what did they do?
i mean, fundamentaly?
Can anyone explain to me the "other" side of the coin that involves the palestians as anything but a people resisting brutal opression and mistreatment through the use of force?

yeah, death and fighting suck.
but what would you do? lie down and take it? plead for justice?

i don't think israel has any intention of going anywhere.

i'm not advocating violence.
i'm just saying the situation is intolerable for most all of them, and they live by the whim of israeli military might.

it is not the palestinians who impose brutal miltary rule upon occupied land, who run tanks in to the street, impose curfews every other day of the year, and block of every major throughfare with checkpoints ... it is the israelis ...

i dunno.
i just don't get it.

If you truly believe that the palestinians are doing "Many things that make peace unlikely" ... ask yourself, then what is it that the israelis are doing? The work of god?

:(

Snake

dunkman wrote:

Israel isnt a brutal military regime... its a brutal military democracy

Yup thats one part of it