Authorities investigate Moore on Cuba

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  • blackredyellowblackredyellow Posts: 5,889
    Part of me is skeptical that this letter even exists and that's it's just a PR stunt by Moore.

    Eitherway, this is stupid, and so is the damn embargo in the first place.
    My whole life
    was like a picture
    of a sunny day
    “We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
    ― Abraham Lincoln
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    MLC2006 wrote:
    if the US somehow pressured other nations to blockade against Cuba, then you could talk about it being illegal

    'In 1999, U.S. President Bill Clinton expanded the trade embargo even further by ending the practice of foreign subsidiaries of U.S. companies trading with Cuba in dollar amounts totaling more than 700 million a year.'

    Pity any country that doesn't toe the U.S line.
  • MLC2006MLC2006 Posts: 861
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Really? The U.S is a signatory of the U.N, and therefore must abide by decisions made at the U.N.

    And for your information, those missiles belonged to the U.S.S.R and were placed there in order to ward off a planned invasion by U.S forces. They were removed in 1962, and since that time Cuba has posed no threat to the U.S, despite what your media may tell you.

    Castro supported the Russians and the US has been clear for almost 50 years that they want the Castro regime out of power. they've done nothing physically to the Cuba, so they have broken no law, national or international. that's why it's only a condemnation by the UN, because they can't do anything about it because no "law" has been broken. aside from supporting the USSR, Castro has murdered and caused his people to suffer all these years. I'm sure you'll disagree, despite the thousands of Cubans that sail for the US on makeshift rafts every year.
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    MLC2006 wrote:
    again, you are talking about UN law, not US law. you seem to think UN law overrides US law, and it does not. if the US somehow pressured other nations to blockade against Cuba, then you could talk about it being illegal. also, the US hasn't had missiles pointed "at every other nation on earth", that's bullshit. there's a few, sure. and if those nations want to start an economic boycott of the US, by all means.

    There's only one reason for the continued embargo. It has nothing to do with Cuba being a threat to the U.S. Only a monkey would believe that.
    This is simply another way of sending out a message that anyone who follows Cuba's example of becoming too independent and of adopting policies that benefit it's own population - as opposed to benefiting American big business - will suffer for it.
  • MLC2006MLC2006 Posts: 861
    Byrnzie wrote:
    'In 1999, U.S. President Bill Clinton expanded the trade embargo even further by ending the practice of foreign subsidiaries of U.S. companies trading with Cuba in dollar amounts totaling more than 700 million a year.'

    Pity any country that doesn't toe the U.S line.

    um, "foreign subsidiardies of US companies". what part of "US companies" don't you understand? it's a US company, so they can't deal with Cuba. if the foreign country that the US company happens to be in doesn't like that, they should expel the US company and the millions or billions of dollars that goes along with it. they can work with Cuba up to $700 million. it doesn't say all trade is blocked off completely. so if they don't like it, send the company and the jobs back to the US.
  • Make sure Gitmo stays....keep that thorn stuck in deep...twist that Cuban nipple...
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • MLC2006MLC2006 Posts: 861
    Byrnzie wrote:
    There's only one reason for the continued embargo. It has nothing to do with Cuba being a threat to the U.S. Only a monkey would believe that.
    This is simply another way of sending out a message that anyone who follows Cuba's example of becoming too independent and of adopting policies that benefit it's own population - as opposed to benefiting American big business - will suffer for it.

    yes, it's reason is that Castro is still in power. he's still anti-US and his people are still suffering under his power. if he died tomorrow and a more US friendly leader came into power (socialist or not), I believe the embargo would be lifted. but it's not going to be lifted as long as Castro or one of his cronies are in power.
  • RushlimboRushlimbo Posts: 832
    Hehehe. But it is OK for Halliburton to deal with Iraq and Saddam under Cheney's rule against U.S. law. Michael Moore kicks ass.

    http://www.ccmep.org/2003_articles/Iraq/041603_halliburton_and_the_dictators.htm
    War is Peace
    Freedom is Slavery
    Ignorance is Strength
  • sicnevolsicnevol Posts: 180
    MLC2006 wrote:
    again, you are talking about UN law, not US law. you seem to think UN law overrides US law, and it does not. if the US somehow pressured other nations to blockade against Cuba, then you could talk about it being illegal. also, the US hasn't had missiles pointed "at every other nation on earth", that's bullshit. there's a few, sure. and if those nations want to start an economic boycott of the US, by all means.
    do you even know how the UN works?
    That's two things we've got, Tape and Time.
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    MLC2006 wrote:
    yes, it's reason is that Castro is still in power. he's still anti-US

    Exactly as I said above. He favours benefiting his own people over exporting his countries wealth to the U.S. Most of central America has been whoring itself to U.S multinationals for too long. Castro has almost singlehandedly stood up to the U.S for 50 years. Other countries are now following suit - Venezuela. Castro set a bad example in the eyes of the U.S. This is why his country continues to be punished.
  • ....whatever you do....

    [size=+3]Don't Click This![/size]


    :D
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • sicnevolsicnevol Posts: 180
    ....whatever you do....

    [size=+3]Don't Click This![/size]


    :D
    I was having a heart attack and was denied the payment of an ambulance because i wasn't the correct shade of blue to be underduress.
    That's two things we've got, Tape and Time.
  • sicnevol wrote:
    I was having a heart attack and was denied the payment of an ambulance because i wasn't the correct shade of blue to be underduress.

    whaaa? are you serious? there is such a thing?
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • sicnevolsicnevol Posts: 180
    whaaa? are you serious? there is such a thing?
    yes, yes I am.

    pretty much if you could have gotten there any other way and not died, medicare will not pay.
    That's two things we've got, Tape and Time.
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-T-E-S.


    when i read shit like this it makes me LMFAO!!!!!! :D:D:D
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
    MLC2006 wrote:
    Castro supported the Russians and the US has been clear for almost 50 years that they want the Castro regime out of power. they've done nothing physically to the Cuba, so they have broken no law, national or international. that's why it's only a condemnation by the UN, because they can't do anything about it because no "law" has been broken. aside from supporting the USSR, Castro has murdered and caused his people to suffer all these years. I'm sure you'll disagree, despite the thousands of Cubans that sail for the US on makeshift rafts every year.

    I'm Cuban and I want to clear a few things up. First Castro is a douche bag, I just wanted to make my thoughts known on that before is started.

    The reason for the Cuban revolution was because since Cubas "liberation" after the Spanish American War the US has practically governed the island through US supported regimes, none of which had the interest of the Cuban people at heart. Batista, the last dictator prior to Castro, was just at vile and ruthless as Castro. he US did not oppose him because he allowed US will, better yet US corporate interest, to take precidense on the island.

    The Cuban Revolution start as an agrarian movement. Small farmers where lossing their livelyhood and their land because of United Fruit and Batista did nothing about it because his pockets where being lined. The man was selling out his country and his people for profit. The two Castro brother, Camilo Cienfuegos, and Che former the People's Arm to over-throw Batista and give the land back to the people. The movement was a leftist-socialist movement but by no means was Castro trying to creat a communist state like the Soviets. Cienfuegos had always been weary of the Soviets, he didn't trust them, and he was Castro's key advicor. Che on the other hand wanted Castro to develope a relationship with the Soviets but because of Camilo's influence that didn't happen untill later.

    After the revolution, then preident, Eisenhower was thrilled that Batista was overthrown and was happy to welcome Fidel Castro to the US to build a relationship with him. It wasn't untill lobbyists for both United Fruit and a powerful Cuban-American groups started putting pressure on the US government that the relationship went sour. Shortly after that US hostilities toward Cuba began. Castro first tunred to the British for help, the British once supplied Castro with arms for his revolution, but due to US pressure that help wasn't coming. It wasn't until after the death of Camilo Cienfuegos, who was extremely anti-communist and did not trust the Soviets, did Castro start siding with the Rusiians. Many believe that it Che who pushed Castro in that direction after Cienfuegos death and that Che may have even had something to do with his death. Not that I agree with Castro's decision but when you have one of the two most powerful nations, 90 miles off your coast, engaging in hostile activities and the other most powerful nation wants to help your decision is easy to make. Now this doesn't mean that Castro had to go and oppress and kill his people, that is unexcuseable.

    So Cuban-US relations are not as black and white as it may seem.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • farfromglorifiedfarfromglorified Posts: 5,696
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Why?

    Because the political views he holds are a threat to reasonable people everywhere. Hate and anger are no more sustainable principles than are stupidity and greed, the things he rails against.

    I don't mean to imply that Michael Moore is any worse than others like him, or even those he decries.
  • moeaholicmoeaholic Posts: 535
    I bet he gets zip...and millions to boot...

    my prediction...

    yeah, because he's going to be winning over even more fans.

    he's not going to make any more than he normally does. you think just because this is in the news, people that can't stand him are suddenly going to say "holy shit, i gotta see this movie!" the people that are going to pay to see this movie are the same people that paid to see farenheit 9/11, and bowling for columbine, and any other movie he's made that i can't think of off the top of my head at the moment.
    "PC Load Letter?! What the fuck does that mean?"
    ~Michael Bolton
  • pjfanatic4pjfanatic4 Posts: 127
    mammasan wrote:
    I'm Cuban and I want to clear a few things up. First Castro is a douche bag, I just wanted to make my thoughts known on that before is started.

    So Cuban-US relations are not as black and white as it may seem.

    Very good post M,

    I know several cubans, some of them in the US as political refugees, others as spouses to Americans that vacation in Cuba. (Yes, you can visit Cuba if you want to, only fly to Jamaica first). Anyway, the political refugee had a similar story as you did, basically that Castro flew to Washington after his victory and was sent back immediately. It was then that he had to find support elsewhere.

    On this thread, I agree with Byrnzie. The Cuba embargo is just another foreign policy trick to help the US corporations. It is just as bad as how Castro treated dissenters.

    On healthcare, it is curious to find out that Moore took Americans for treatment. Medical treatment is different in Cuba in a big way. No, I don't think they are more advances, but I have had references that they take the word CARE in healthCARE seriously. Let me explain:

    A good friend of my wife's had a terrible experience. Her two year old tipped a granite decoration table and it landed on top of him. The docs didn't give him a chance. He made it through, but has severe neurological damage. He was basically a new born in a two year old's body. For the past couple of years they have worked hard in therapy to teach the boy to sit, to stand, to walk. It has been a slow process. My friend's wife learned there was a very good institute in Cuba that provided this type of therapy. They have been going to there for the past six-eight months. The boy has made a lot of progress.

    I asked her, when I spoke to her with my wife, (we were helping in coming up with donations for here to keep going to Cuba), what was the main difference. She said the therapy exercises were basically the same. But the doctors/therapists there really CARED. You see, they don't get paid more by the patient or hour. They get paid the same regardless. So what she encountered was people that really LOVED what they were doing, and did not worry about a $ per hour, about seeing as many patients or making more money. In short, there is no profit in the healthcare industry in Cuba.

    One more note, Castro may be ruthless, but they have a very expanded scholarship program. They send people all over the world to get educated with the idea they go back to Cuba and service the community.

    I'm interested in how M Moore will portray Cuba on his film.
  • farfromglorifiedfarfromglorified Posts: 5,696
    pjfanatic4 wrote:
    Very good post M,

    I know several cubans, some of them in the US as political refugees, others as spouses to Americans that vacation in Cuba. (Yes, you can visit Cuba if you want to, only fly to Jamaica first). Anyway, the political refugee had a similar story as you did, basically that Castro flew to Washington after his victory and was sent back immediately. It was then that he had to find support elsewhere.

    On this thread, I agree with Byrnzie. The Cuba embargo is just another foreign policy trick to help the US corporations. It is just as bad as how Castro treated dissenters.

    On healthcare, it is curious to find out that Moore took Americans for treatment. Medical treatment is different in Cuba in a big way. No, I don't think they are more advances, but I have had references that they take the word CARE in healthCARE seriously. Let me explain:

    A good friend of my wife's had a terrible experience. Her two year old tipped a granite decoration table and it landed on top of him. The docs didn't give him a chance. He made it through, but has severe neurological damage. He was basically a new born in a two year old's body. For the past couple of years they have worked hard in therapy to teach the boy to sit, to stand, to walk. It has been a slow process. My friend's wife learned there was a very good institute in Cuba that provided this type of therapy. They have been going to there for the past six-eight months. The boy has made a lot of progress.

    I asked her, when I spoke to her with my wife, (we were helping in coming up with donations for here to keep going to Cuba), what was the main difference. She said the therapy exercises were basically the same. But the doctors/therapists there really CARED. You see, they don't get paid more by the patient or hour. They get paid the same regardless. So what she encountered was people that really LOVED what they were doing, and did not worry about a $ per hour, about seeing as many patients or making more money. In short, there is no profit in the healthcare industry in Cuba.

    No profit???? You just spent 2 paragraphs describing the profits.
  • pjfanatic4pjfanatic4 Posts: 127
    No profit???? You just spent 2 paragraphs describing the profits.

    Huh?
  • farfromglorifiedfarfromglorified Posts: 5,696
    pjfanatic4 wrote:
    Huh?

    "A good friend of my wife's had a terrible experience. Her two year old tipped a granite decoration table and it landed on top of him. The docs didn't give him a chance. He made it through, but has severe neurological damage. He was basically a new born in a two year old's body. For the past couple of years they have worked hard in therapy to teach the boy to sit, to stand, to walk. It has been a slow process. My friend's wife learned there was a very good institute in Cuba that provided this type of therapy. They have been going to there for the past six-eight months. The boy has made a lot of progress."
  • mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
    pjfanatic4 wrote:
    Very good post M,

    I know several cubans, some of them in the US as political refugees, others as spouses to Americans that vacation in Cuba. (Yes, you can visit Cuba if you want to, only fly to Jamaica first). Anyway, the political refugee had a similar story as you did, basically that Castro flew to Washington after his victory and was sent back immediately. It was then that he had to find support elsewhere.

    On this thread, I agree with Byrnzie. The Cuba embargo is just another foreign policy trick to help the US corporations. It is just as bad as how Castro treated dissenters.

    On healthcare, it is curious to find out that Moore took Americans for treatment. Medical treatment is different in Cuba in a big way. No, I don't think they are more advances, but I have had references that they take the word CARE in healthCARE seriously. Let me explain:

    A good friend of my wife's had a terrible experience. Her two year old tipped a granite decoration table and it landed on top of him. The docs didn't give him a chance. He made it through, but has severe neurological damage. He was basically a new born in a two year old's body. For the past couple of years they have worked hard in therapy to teach the boy to sit, to stand, to walk. It has been a slow process. My friend's wife learned there was a very good institute in Cuba that provided this type of therapy. They have been going to there for the past six-eight months. The boy has made a lot of progress.

    I asked her, when I spoke to her with my wife, (we were helping in coming up with donations for here to keep going to Cuba), what was the main difference. She said the therapy exercises were basically the same. But the doctors/therapists there really CARED. You see, they don't get paid more by the patient or hour. They get paid the same regardless. So what she encountered was people that really LOVED what they were doing, and did not worry about a $ per hour, about seeing as many patients or making more money. In short, there is no profit in the healthcare industry in Cuba.

    One more note, Castro may be ruthless, but they have a very expanded scholarship program. They send people all over the world to get educated with the idea they go back to Cuba and service the community.

    I'm interested in how M Moore will portray Cuba on his film.

    My cousin was a doctor in Cuba, see is a pharma rep here. She has stated that the medical advances in Cuba are definetly behind those of the US but the level of care, as you clearly pointed out, is far better.

    The embargo is such a ridiculous and useless tactic. Even during the height of the Cold War it never accomplished what it intended to do. Only the population of Cuba suffers under an embargo and creates an atmospere where they need to rely on their government even more, lessening any chance of the people rising up against their government. I can almost under why our government originally started the embargo but to still have it in place today is just plain stupid. It's a case of I'll show you who's boss mentality.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • polarispolaris Posts: 3,527
    the sad thing about everything is that everytime they mention moore ... they put "oscar-award winning director* ... :|
  • farfromglorifiedfarfromglorified Posts: 5,696
    mammasan wrote:
    My cousin was a doctor in Cuba, see is a pharma rep here. She has stated that the medical advances in Cuba are definetly behind those of the US but the level of care, as you clearly pointed out, is far better.

    The embargo is such a ridiculous and useless tactic. Even during the height of the Cold War it never accomplished what it intended to do. Only the population of Cuba suffers under an embargo and creates an atmospere where they need to rely on their government even more, lessening any chance of the people rising up against their government. I can almost under why our government originally started the embargo but to still have it in place today is just plain stupid. It's a case of I'll show you who's boss mentality.

    I very much agree with the above, but I think it's also important to note that an embargo can only create a shortage absent domestic production.
  • pjfanatic4pjfanatic4 Posts: 127
    "A good friend of my wife's had a terrible experience. Her two year old tipped a granite decoration table and it landed on top of him. The docs didn't give him a chance. He made it through, but has severe neurological damage. He was basically a new born in a two year old's body. For the past couple of years they have worked hard in therapy to teach the boy to sit, to stand, to walk. It has been a slow process. My friend's wife learned there was a very good institute in Cuba that provided this type of therapy. They have been going to there for the past six-eight months. The boy has made a lot of progress."

    I guess my idea was not expressed correctly. He has made much more progress in recovering since he started going to Cuba than what his progress was when he was in a private physical therapy center in Mexico.

    She said the work is basically the same. With the exception that the Cuban folks were not tied to an hour at a time, the assembly line feeling you get in the healthcare services rendered in Mexico or the US. (I've lived in both countries).

    We helped them by raising donations because it is expensive to travel and stay in the Cuban center months at a time. They do pay a fee to the center of course, which broken down by the hour is much much cheaper than what they were charged in Mexico.
  • farfromglorifiedfarfromglorified Posts: 5,696
    pjfanatic4 wrote:
    I guess my idea was not expressed correctly. He has made much more progress in recovering since he started going to Cuba than what his progress was when he was in a private physical therapy center in Mexico.

    Yes. He has profited.
    She said the work is basically the same. With the exception that the Cuban folks were not tied to an hour at a time, the assembly line feeling you get in the healthcare services rendered in Mexico or the US. (I've lived in both countries).

    We helped them by raising donations because it is expensive to travel and stay in the Cuban center months at a time. They do pay a fee to the center of course, which broken down by the hour is much much cheaper than what they were charged in Mexico.

    This is all very cool.
  • pjfanatic4pjfanatic4 Posts: 127
    I very much agree with the above, but I think it's also important to note that an embargo can only create a shortage absent domestic production.

    Do you mean "absent domestic production" that the country needs to be self sufficient in all aspects of the economy? Not even the mighty United States is that.
  • pjfanatic4pjfanatic4 Posts: 127
    Yes. He has profited.



    This is all very cool.

    I see your point now. :)
  • farfromglorifiedfarfromglorified Posts: 5,696
    pjfanatic4 wrote:
    I see you point now. :)

    Ok, cool.
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