Authorities investigate Moore on Cuba

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  • farfromglorifiedfarfromglorified Posts: 5,696
    Because of the effects they produce.

    What effects are those?
  • macgyver06macgyver06 Posts: 2,500
    if i pissed bush off; then gave him a reason to imprison me; i wouldn't be giggling. and he also gave bush a reason to outlaw his film in the us.

    you need a team of doctors...your mother has messed you up
  • farfromglorifiedfarfromglorified Posts: 5,696
    my2hands wrote:
    dude, do you ever give a straight answer? taxes are not comparable to murder. poor people and rich people need infrastructure.

    Sigh...

    You said that taxes "come about of need". Taxes do come about because of need. So, are you implying that taxes are somehow justified or morally right because they "come about of need"? Or, do you believe the situation to be more complex with other factors involved? If so, what are those factors?
    your theory of taxation is pure bullshit unless you can tell me how society would function efficiently without government collecting taxes and using them for public causes.

    I already told you how society would function efficiently without government collecting taxes and using them for public causes. Are you actually asking me "how will poor people function efficiently without government collecting taxes and using them for public causes"?
    your only answer was if they can afford it? next time someone burglarizes your house i bet you dont complain about your taxes when you call the police and they help protect your ass whether you can afford it or not.

    I willingly accept your proposal. I will forgo police protection and not complain to the police when someone burglarizes a tenth of the value from my home what you would have charged me for your police "protection".
  • mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
    None of those things "need tax revenue". Those things need revenue.

    Can you explain to me why they need tax revenue, as opposed to other revenue?



    Anywhere value is possible, profit is possible.

    Where else are you going to find the revenue for military spending or public works if not through taxes. If you can provide one feasible and realistic example i'll eat my words and shut up.

    I understand that anywhere that value is possible revenue is possible, but answer me this. A private compant decides that it will pay for all road maintanence in the state of New Jersey. This would cost the company millions of dollars per year. How do they make a profit or even end up even without charging tolls on every highway.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    Ok. Then why did you bring it up?

    Money is not a concept. Getting ahead is not a concept. Spending 25 years paying for a house to call your own is a concept. And what a sad concept it is.

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  • What effects are those?

    He posted them
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • farfromglorifiedfarfromglorified Posts: 5,696
    mammasan wrote:
    Where else are you going to find the revenue for military spending or public works if not through taxes. If you can provide one feasible and realistic example i'll eat my words and shut up.

    How much money did you spend today? What did you spend it on? Why did you spend it?

    The answer to your original question in found in your answers to these. People will pay for what they value. If you are asking me where you're going to get $500B per year to fund your military, the only answer is taxation. However, if you are asking me where you will find the exact amount of money required to build the army that the citizenry actually values, the answer is found in exchange.
    I understand that anywhere that value is possible revenue is possible, but answer me this. A private compant decides that it will pay for all road maintanence in the state of New Jersey. This would cost the company millions of dollars per year. How do they make a profit or even end up even without charging tolls on every highway.

    Are you asking me how a corporation or any other entity would be able to profit from giving away all their labor? The answer is they can't, unless of course giving it away somehow creates some kind of other value they can capitalize on. But if you're asking me if I have a problem with toll roads, my answer there would be "I don't".
  • DMBloverDMBlover Posts: 33
    mammasan wrote:
    Where else are you going to find the revenue for military spending or public works if not through taxes. If you can provide one feasible and realistic example i'll eat my words and shut up.

    Don't forget education. :)
    Keep the big door open and everyone will come around.
  • farfromglorifiedfarfromglorified Posts: 5,696
    He posted them

    Ok. Why do the things he has posted concern him, aside from the fact they are "under reported"?
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    How much money did you spend today? What did you spend it on? Why did you spend it?

    The answer to your original question in found in your answers to these. People will pay for what they value. If you are asking me where you're going to get $500B per year to fund your military, the only answer is taxation. However, if you are asking me where you will find the exact amount of money required to build the army that the citizenry actually values, the answer is found in exchange.

    Taxes are exchange.

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  • mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
    How much money did you spend today? What did you spend it on? Why did you spend it?

    The answer to your original question in found in your answers to these. People will pay for what they value. If you are asking me where you're going to get $500B per year to fund your military, the only answer is taxation. However, if you are asking me where you will find the exact amount of money required to build the army that the citizenry actually values, the answer is found in exchange.



    Are you asking me how a corporation or any other entity would be able to profit from giving away all their labor? The answer is they can't, unless of course giving it away somehow creates some kind of other value they can capitalize on. But if you're asking me if I have a problem with toll roads, my answer there would be "I don't".

    No I'm not talking about a 500 billion dollar military budget. I'm talking about a military the size that citizenry actually values. This exchange you speak of what would it be?

    Second. Ok the roads was a bad example because obviously tolls would make sense and generate revenue for the mainanence. What about Police and Fire departments?
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • farfromglorifiedfarfromglorified Posts: 5,696
    gue_barium wrote:
    Taxes are exchange.

    Define exchange.
  • mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
    DMBlover wrote:
    Don't forget education. :)

    Education can be accomplished without taxes. You have private schools and charter schools, most of which out preform public schools. There is also home schooling.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • farfromglorifiedfarfromglorified Posts: 5,696
    mammasan wrote:
    No I'm not talking about a 500 billion dollar military budget. I'm talking about a military the size that citizenry actually values. This exchange you speak of what would it be?

    It would be the willful purchase, by the citizenry, of an army built by the government or by any entity they choose.
    Second. Ok the roads was a bad example because obviously tolls would make sense and generate revenue for the mainanence. What about Police and Fire departments?

    You cannot charge tolls for Police and Fire departments? You cannot support police and fire departement by any means other than taxation?
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    Define exchange.

    Good criminy, why? The American citizenry pays Federal taxes in exchange for military protection. Where's the confusion? If you want to go off on a tangent about Iraq, sure, I can see your point, but the "mistake" that is Iraq isn't something we can run away and hide from simply because our elected executives are criminals.

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  • mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
    It would be the willful purchase, by the citizenry, of an army built by the government or by any entity they choose.



    You cannot charge tolls for Police and Fire departments? You cannot support police and fire departement by any means other than taxation?

    But why would I want to pay for someone else's police and fire department. I pay the tolls because I am using that road and benefit from it being properly maintained. Why would I want to pay even higher tolls just to pay for some other twon's police and fire department. I will pay for those departments in the town/city I live and work in, but wouldn't be too happy if I had to front the bill for someone else. What about people who don't drive, they then get to benefit from these services free of charge.

    The willfull purchase of the citizenry. So we the people would directly purchase supplies, uniforms, equipment for the military.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • RushlimboRushlimbo Posts: 832
    It would be the willful purchase, by the citizenry, of an army built by the government or by any entity they choose.



    You cannot charge tolls for Police and Fire departments? You cannot support police and fire departement by any means other than taxation?

    Let's see what this citizen army does to protect U.S. interests around the world. Private fire department? Let's see how happy you are with that when I dont pay them and my house burns down (not your care, I know) but then my fire causes your house to burn down. I wont pay you anything for your loss and since there are no courts from taxation (private courts, um...no) then you might try to take payment from me with your privately financed police force. Problem is my extended family takes exception to this and annialate your private police force.
    War is Peace
    Freedom is Slavery
    Ignorance is Strength
  • farfromglorifiedfarfromglorified Posts: 5,696
    gue_barium wrote:
    Good criminy, why?

    Because you used the term, and I want to know what you actually mean by it.
    The American citizenry pays Federal taxes in exchange for military protection. Where's the confusion?

    Are you sure that the American citizenry is paying taxes in exchange for "military protection"? I'm an American citizen. I'm not paying taxes for "military protection". I'm paying taxes because the state threatens me. They then use that money for "military protection" which, in my lifetime, has arguably made me less safe than if they hadn't.
  • RushlimboRushlimbo Posts: 832
    mammasan wrote:
    But why would I want to pay for someone else's police and fire department. I pay the tolls because I am using that road and benefit from it being properly maintained. Why would I want to pay even higher tolls just to pay for some other twon's police and fire department. I will pay for those departments in the town/city I live and work in, but wouldn't be too happy if I had to front the bill for someone else. What about people who don't drive, they then get to benefit from these services free of charge.

    The willfull purchase of the citizenry. So we the people would directly purchase supplies, uniforms, equipment for the military.

    That's it exactly. This is the same concept as paying taxes just disguised as freewill. New boss same as the old boss. Not caslling it a "tax" just makes some people feel better.
    War is Peace
    Freedom is Slavery
    Ignorance is Strength
  • Ok. Why do the things he has posted concern him, aside from the fact they are "under reported"?


    I think the answer is obvious knowing him as well as I do. But I'll just let him answer you when he can.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    Because you used the term, and I want to know what you actually mean by it.



    Are you sure that the American citizenry is paying taxes in exchange for "military protection"? I'm an American citizen. I'm not paying taxes for "military protection". I'm paying taxes because the state threatens me. They then use that money for "military protection" which, in my lifetime, has arguably made me less safe than if they hadn't.

    Would you prefer America didn't exist?

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  • farfromglorifiedfarfromglorified Posts: 5,696
    mammasan wrote:
    But why would I want to pay for someone else's police and fire department.

    You probably wouldn't. Some people might. But it really doesn't matter. You have no obligation to pay for someone else's police and fire department. Establishing one in your town, however, would do that in part.
    I pay the tolls because I am using that road and benefit from it being properly maintained.

    You see how your toll is paying for someone else's road too though, right?
    Why would I want to pay even higher tolls just to pay for some other twon's police and fire department.

    You probably wouldn't. Few people would. But again, that doesn't really matter. Establishing that road in your town likely would do that in part, in the event that the same people who pay for your roads also pay for your town's police and fire department.
    I will pay for those departments in the town/city I live and work in, but wouldn't be too happy if I had to front the bill for someone else. What about people who don't drive, they then get to benefit from these services free of charge.

    What service do they benefit from "free of charge"?
    The willfull purchase of the citizenry. So we the people would directly purchase supplies, uniforms, equipment for the military.

    Not necessarily, no, but that would be an option. More likely, you would determine what your security from external threats is worth to you and contribute to a provider nearest that price point. I mean, you don't buy Wal-Mart employees' uniforms, supplies or equipment directly, but you do indirectly.
  • farfromglorifiedfarfromglorified Posts: 5,696
    gue_barium wrote:
    Would you prefer America didn't exist?

    America the land? America the people? America the government? America the culture? What specifically do you mean by "America"?
  • farfromglorifiedfarfromglorified Posts: 5,696
    I think the answer is obvious knowing him as well as I do. But I'll just let him answer you when he can.

    I think the answer is obvious too. I'm intruiged to hear his response.
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    America the land? America the people? America the government? America the culture? What specifically do you mean by "America"?

    That was a sort of, you know, rhetorical question in nature, but since you answered, sure, which one could you live without? And why?

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  • I think the answer is obvious too. I'm intruiged to hear his response.

    Well, what do you think the obvious answer is since you're here?
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • farfromglorifiedfarfromglorified Posts: 5,696
    Rushlimbo wrote:
    That's it exactly. This is the same concept as paying taxes just disguised as freewill. New boss same as the old boss. Not caslling it a "tax" just makes some people feel better.

    If you change the name, but still force people to pay it at gunpoint, it's still a tax. It was the same thing when you changed it from "theft" to "taxation" as well.

    And I'd never hide the fact that everything I say here requires the concept of free-will. If free-will doesn't exist, tax away! As a matter of fact, do whatever you'd like...or at least whatever you're programmed to do.
  • farfromglorifiedfarfromglorified Posts: 5,696
    Well, what do you think the obvious answer is since you're here?

    Are you asking me to read past Kabongs exact literal statements? Because, if so, that would violate the very thing you were yelling at me in the first place for doing.
  • farfromglorifiedfarfromglorified Posts: 5,696
    gue_barium wrote:
    That was a sort of, you know, rhetorical question in nature, but since you answered, sure, which one could you live without? And why?

    I could probably live without any of them, depending on how and when they went out of existence. I'd be very happy if "America" the government ceased to exist. I'd be very sad if "America" the land ceased to exist. I'd have mixed emotions if "America" the culture ceased to exist. And I'd be incredibly sad if "America" the people ceased to exist.
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    I could probably live without any of them, depending on how and when they went out of existence. I'd be very happy if "America" the government ceased to exist. I'd be very sad if "America" the land ceased to exist. I'd have mixed emotions if "America" the culture ceased to exist. And I'd be incredibly sad if "America" the people ceased to exist.

    I'd be incredibley humored if you made your sentiments into a movie. :)

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