Did the U.S defeat Hitlers Germany?

jlew24asu

redrock wrote:

How eloquent.... lost for words, are you?

not at all. I think my statement sums it up.

UKDave

Heineken Helen wrote:

I KNOW it wasn't you but isn't that the same rhetoric we're using against the Americans... when some Americans say 'if it weren't for us you'd all be speaking German' and all that? That's cos they don't understand what 'WORLD war' means, potentially cos they're not taught that bit. I think countries should be taught why other nations don't like them. I believe the Germans are taught of their dirty past and rightly so, so that it doesn't happen again. Some Americans fail to realise that their nation has ever done anything wrong. Some English people are the same. It's all this video game mentality bullshit - 'we're the only superpower, we could kick your ass' and all that crap.

I don't use that rhetoric against Americans as a whole, I don't have a problem with any nationality per se:

I don't dislike Germans - but obviously hate Nazi's and facists of any country, modern Germany is light years away from that.
I don't dislike Americans - just ignorant, xenophobes of any nationality, it just so happens there tend to be quite a few Americans that fit that category...

I don't believe any sweeping statement against a nationality, sex or creed it's all crap, get to know the individual.

And I do speak some German The quote that started this off was from one "ignorant" American and was simply being responded to.

Each generation has to learn from the past not re-live it...

UKDave

jlew24asu wrote:

BINGO!!! finally an intelligent statement. I have my own opinions. since most dont agree with mine views of America, means i'm a bad person?

like Eddie said. Fuck 'em

Eddie would actually be embarassed by you... he'd be more likely to say fuck YOU...

Byrnzie

Heineken Helen wrote:

That's cos they don't understand what 'WORLD war' means,

But my point of starting this thread was to point out that 3/4's of the German military machine was destroyed on the Eastern front, and that therefore the 'WORLD' owes more to them for defeating the Nazi's than it does to the U.S or any other country for that matter, regardless of everyones contribution. I was putting things into perspective. I.e, it's a fact that 9 out of every 10 German soldiers were killed on Russian soil. These statistics speak for themselves. It's quite plain and simple to me. Most people have been somewhat defensive of their country's part in World war 2 on this board after I posted some of these details. I don't know why this is. I personally couldn't give a fuck where England, or Britain stands in the order of things. I was merely pointing out some historical facts relating to the war in response to some typical U.S jingoism - 'you'd all be talking German now if it wasn't for America'. My immediate and simple response to such a comment is "Bollocks!"

Byrnzie

jlew24asu wrote:

BINGO!!! finally an intelligent statement. I have my own opinions. since most dont agree with mine views of America, means i'm a bad person?

like Eddie said. Fuck 'em

Believe it or not, I respect this attitude. I actually think it was Kurt Cobain who once said 'There's nothing more therapeutic than a well placed "Fuck it!" Wise words indeed.

I still don't agree with your fuck the French comment though. I'm an Englishman who happens to like the French. A rare thing.

redrock

Byrnzie wrote:

I'm an Englishman who happens to like the French. A rare thing.

:D

lgt

tybird wrote:

And they been given their proper due throughout this thread. My Grandfather's unit flew out of Italy after the Nazi's were removed. He actually got to see Mussolini hanging from a lamp post.

That was Piazzale Loreto in Milano, if I remember correctly. That episode is considered one of the low points in the Italian WWII civil war (FYI, some argue that it was not an actual civil war), with the summary execution and desecration of the bodies of Mussolini and his lover, Claretta Petacci.

As for the Resistance fighters, my point was merely to underline their contribution in the war effort as well.

Heineken Helen

Byrnzie wrote:

But my point of starting this thread was to point out that 3/4's of the German military machine was destroyed on the Eastern front, and that therefore the 'WORLD' owes more to them for defeating the Nazi's than it does to the U.S or any other country for that matter, regardless of everyones contribution. I was putting things into perspective. I.e, it's a fact that 9 out of every 10 German soldiers were killed on Russian soil. These statistics speak for themselves. It's quite plain and simple to me. Most people have been somewhat defensive of their country's part in World war 2 on this board after I posted some of these details. I don't know why this is. I personally couldn't give a fuck where England, or Britain stands in the order of things. I was merely pointing out some historical facts relating to the war in response to some typical U.S jingoism - 'you'd all be talking German now if it wasn't for America'. My immediate and simple response to such a comment is "Bollocks!"

Byrnzie, I'm agreeing with ya. It's called a world war cos the whole world was involved and it was a joint effort - something we seem to be incapable of these days - and no one nation deserves any special credit.

lgt

jlew24asu wrote:

it has nothing to do with the government. Iwas there and they hate americans IMO.

You will find that not only in France but in other parts of Europe and the world the view of the American government (key word, government - one can distinguish between that and its people) is not very favourable, to use an understatement, after the US government's foreign policy decisions squandered all the universal support it had garnered because of 9/11.

jlew24asu

lgt wrote:

(key word, government - one can distinguish between that and its people) .

I think that could be the problem. people don't distinguish the difference. o well. lets not go off topic.

jlew24asu

UKDave wrote:

Eddie would actually be embarassed by you... he'd be more likely to say fuck YOU...

doubt it. I met Ed in 2003 in Denver. he thought I was one cool guy.

Byrnzie

jlew24asu wrote:

doubt it. I met Ed in 2003 in Denver. he thought I was one cool guy.

Why? What did he say?

P.s, fuck the topic!

jlew24asu

Byrnzie wrote:

Why? What did he say?

P.s, fuck the topic!

I told him I was from Chicago (so is he) so I was one cool guy to him!

UKDave

jlew24asu wrote:

I told him I was from Chicago (so is he) so I was one cool guy to him!

Just don't talk to him about anything serious cos one quote like Fuck the French and I think his opinion would change... :rolleyes:

tybird

Byrnzie wrote:

I actually think it was Kurt Cobain who once said 'There's nothing more therapeutic than a well placed "Fuck it!" Wise words indeed.

Apparently, he did not heed his own advice...........:)

Byrnzie

UKDave wrote:

Just don't talk to him about anything serious cos one quote like Fuck the French and I think his opinion would change... :rolleyes:

This reminds me of when I met Ron Jeremy on London Bridge During an Anti-Bush march in London a couple of years ago. I said "Ron Jeremy fucks Bush!" and "Make porn, not war!"

Edit: Not that this has anything to do with the war on the Eastern front of course!

UKDave

Byrnzie wrote:

This reminds me of when I met Ron Jeremy on London Bridge During an Anti-Bush march in London a couple of years ago. I said "Ron Jeremy fucks Bush!" and "Make porn, not war!"

Edit: Not that this has anything to do with the war on the Eastern front of course!

:cool:

edit: which bit would be considered the eastern front then?

Byrnzie

tybird wrote:

Apparently, he did not heed his own advice...........:)

Or maybe he did?

tybird

Kenny Olav wrote:

I remember reading that when the Soviets were fighting in Finland, the generals basically had the strategy of using their own soldiers as pawns. The Soviets had the Finns greatly outnumbered, but the Finns had a greater will and drove out the Red Army, and when they were down with that, they drove out the Germans! I guess the moral of this story is that Finland is badass.

There is a belief that the poor Soviet performance against the Finns motivated Hitler to move up the date of the Soviet invasion. He apparently was not a patient man and was always changing the start date of military operations, over the arguments of the generals, to an earlier date. I mentioned earlier how the Naval command had not expected war until at least the mid-1940s. A later starting war would have given the Kriegsmarine at least two more Tirpitz (e.g. Bismarck) class battleships, many more U-boats and at least one aircraft carrier.

tybird

Byrnzie wrote:

Or maybe he did?

hmmmmmm......self-inflicted shotgun blast to the head.....not how I would want to go.....it did help the estate by increasing album sales across the board, and it got the "Unplugged" released on cd.