FRESNO, Calif. -- The grounding of hundreds of F-15s because of dangerous structural defects is straining the nation's air defense network, forcing states such as Washington and Oregon to rely on their neighbors' fighter jets for protection, and Alaska to depend on the Canadian military.
The Boeing F-15 is the sole fighter at many of the 16 or so "alert" sites around the country, where planes and pilots stand ready to take off at a moment's notice to intercept hijacked airliners, Cessnas that wander into protected airspace, and other threats.
The Air Force grounded about 450 F-15s after one of the fighters began to break apart in the air and crashed Nov. 2 in Missouri. An Air Force investigation found "possible fleetwide airworthiness problems" because of defects in the metal rails that hold the fuselage together.
Compounding the problem created by the grounding, another fighter jet used for homeland defense, the F-16, is in high demand for Iraq operations. And the next-generation fighter, the F-22 Raptor, is only slowly replacing the aging F-15.
Military officials say they moved quickly to patch any holes in the homeland air-defense system, and they report an increase in air defense sorties in the past month, using replacement F-16s. But they acknowledge difficulties.
"When you're filling in, obviously it's going to cause some strain," said Mike Strickler, a spokesman with North American Aerospace Defense Command, which is operated by the U.S. and Canada. "You're spreading resources a little thinner than we would like."
But air defenses have not been compromised, Strickler said. "We can be anywhere at any time," he said.
The Minnesota Air National Guard is manning sites in Hawaii. In Louisiana, the Illinois Air National Guard has been filling in.
And with Oregon's fighters grounded, the California Air National Guard is standing watch for the entire West Coast, an area of more than 300,000 square miles that is home to more than 46 million people in Washington, Oregon, California and slices of Arizona and Nevada.
For three weeks in November, Canadian CF-18s filled in for the F-15s over Alaska.
Where's the money going? Why aren't the candidates asking about this?
SIN EATERS--We take the moral excrement we find in this equation and we bury it down deep inside of us so that the rest of our case can stay pure. That is the job. We are morally indefensible and absolutely necessary.
People keep saying they knew she was going to be assassinated but that doesn't make it right. She had her faults like all people do but she seemed to be the best candidate to lead Pakistan in a peaceful direction and it looks like she was leading in the polls. I saw many interviews with her over the years and she was very impressive and seemed like a very good leader. It's a huge loss to Pakistan, the Middle East and the world.
Nothing about her death is right, but she and her family had history in her country and I think that is something we, as Americans can not fully understand from their cultural perspective.
I have no doubt she knew she would die upon her return to Pakistan. I also have no doubt that she knew that only through her death would her vision for Pakistan have a chance, that is why she risk so many public appearances in Pakistan. Preventing an assassination in a public forum is next to impossible, we have only to look at our own history.
A call for democracy even through the election process is not achieved overnight. We can bear witness to that fact simply by looking at Iraq. Regardless of who killed her, it is in the world's best interest to ensure that Pakistan remains stable. That should be her legacy, a stable, democratic Pakistan.
SIN EATERS--We take the moral excrement we find in this equation and we bury it down deep inside of us so that the rest of our case can stay pure. That is the job. We are morally indefensible and absolutely necessary.
As mourners bury former Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto, Pakistanis across the country share their shock and grief at her assassination.
NABEEL ARSHED, STUDENT, RAWALPINDI
I was in Rawalpindi town at the time of the assassination. I heard an explosion but suicide bombs have become routine in this country so I didn't give it a second thought.
When I turned on the news I got the shock of my life.
I come from a family with rightist sympathies but we all feel as if our mother had died. She was a liberal force, a hope for a Pakistan overrun by militancy. Now there is a great vacuum.
My fears are for Pakistan's unity. She went to the restive province of Balochistan and handed her support to the people there. Whatever we were going through, I felt as if she had the power to unite the provinces of Pakistan. Now you can already hear the separatist movement.
Those voices are becoming stronger now that there is no national leader in Pakistan. We were already in a downward spiral, heading towards extremism. This was the last straw: killing a stalwart for democracy.
We were going to give our vote to Benazir. The country has now been handed over to chaos.
ASIFA HASAN, RESEARCHER, ISLAMABAD
I want to cry over the recent events. Somebody has killed my hope.
Everyone I know is feeling a personal loss, even those of us who were not planning to vote for her, and those of us who thought she was corrupt.
It's like a graveyard out there, no one is on the roads. People are heartbroken.
It looks as if Pakistan is closer to instability, closer to disintegration. I don't know what is going to happen now. We are not hearing any political analysis. It's a disaster of such huge proportions that people don't seem to know what to do or say.
I work for the Free and Fair Election network and we were monitoring the elections. The assumption is the election will take place. But I think it will be postponed.
I see my country being pushed to the brink of disaster. Civilian leadership is what keeps the country together. That is what has gone now. There is conflict in the northern areas and that is beginning to spread. The troubled Swat district is barely 300km from Islamabad.
What kind of reaction is going to come out of [Ms Bhutto's] native Sindh province? God help Pakistan.
MOHAMMAD IBRAHIM KUMBHAR, FISH FARMER THATTA, SINDH
We are very worried about our future. The Bhutto family was the shelter for poor people like us. Now we are feeling shelterless. I and my whole family voted for her party and we always will. Now, I don't think there is any alternative.
In Thatta, where I live, in her Sindh province, all the government property has been burned. People feel the tragedy. Many have left the town to go to Larkana where she will be buried.
After morning prayers, I know there will be big problems in the city. We will go onto the streets and we will protest peacefully. Yesterday, our protests were not peaceful but that was because other elements came and caused some trouble. We are planning to gather at the mosque on the main road after prayers to begin our protest at the death of our leader.
Being a Sindhi person, I feel now that Pakistan is no longer in our favour. If Pakistan gives independence to Sindhi people, we will be happy.
She was the symbol of the unity of Pakistan. That no longer exists any more.
FAISAL MAMSA, PSYCHIATRIST, KARACHI
Last night I was stuck in traffic on the streets of Karachi for hours witnessing a stampede as life on the streets became insecure.
I was shocked as I witnessed women running for help, without their shoes, without their headscarves, just running and begging cars to help them and give them a lift to safety.
I felt as if I was living in a civil war. The city was being set on fire. The country had become paralysed.
I think that's a symbol of where Pakistan is going after this assassination. I believe most damage was done by the followers of her party, done in rage, I'm sure. But what has the common man done to deserve this?
We used to feel secure here. Foreign companies were investing in Pakistan, people could go out at night and feel safe. During Musharraf's rule we had an economic boom. After last night, I believe this country is being handed over to militants.
I hate to say it, I might be condemned or killed, but we need to take extreme security measures to curb whatever the militants are doing. I had high hopes for Benazir Bhutto. It was one of her main agendas to control the militants.
Now we have been asked to stay at home for three days. It is literally like a curfew. The main road is empty. I have been trying to trace my patients and some are missing. That makes me wonder what has happened to this country.
UZMA SHARON, TEXTILE LAB TESTER, LAHORE
She was our hope in this bad year. She was a seasoned politician and now there is no one experienced enough to take her mantle.
I am not a political die-hard but she seemed to project a great image for Pakistan. She was a woman and she was strong.
Our image abroad is bad, people believe our women are suppressed. But none of the men in this country were as qualified as her, she would have been a great candidate.
These militants cannot bear a woman. My great fear is that they want to suppress women's rights across Pakistan. I don't know what our younger generation is going to be facing now. The girls here are so enthusiastic about participating in public life but now they may have to be confined to their home.
This is the image of Pakistan that the media portrays anyway: that we wear burkas, that we have no freedom. But after this incident, it may well become a reality. I am worried about the Talebanisation of our country.
(Hussain Haqqani, a former top aide to Bhutto, is now a professor at Boston University)
Haqqani is not shy about pointing fingers. He blames Musharraf himself, above all, for Bhutto's death. "It's quite clear that Musharraf does not want an election - you can quote me - he is the one who has constantly wanted anybody who can threaten him or his power, out." Haqqani told Congress in October that U.S. aid for Pakistan has for too long been tilted toward the Pakistani military. "Since 1954 almost $21 billion had been given to Pakistan in aid," he told the House Armed Services Committee. "Of this, $17.7 billion were given under military rule, and only $3.4 billion was given to Pakistan and the civilian government."
The military holds the nukes and also controls the ISI. Of course most of our aid money is going to the military, they're the only thing about that country that our government cares about. Does Haqqani really and truly believe that the US would send that much money in humanitarian aid to a nation on the other side of the world? In theory, it may be the right thing to do, but in reality it's not in our best interests. Not that I 100% agree, but it's not difficult to see why the money goes where it does.
IMO, either Musharaff opens his western border to American troops or he proves, atleast to me, that he's in cahoots with the Taliban elements rooted in that sector of his country. If he cries foul with this murder, which he absolutely HAS to be happy about deep down inside, then he needs to backup his rhetoric and help to destroy those harmful elements within his borders. I know I'm not alone in the belief that the American presence/war in Afghanistan was/is a valid effort whereas Iraq is not. Northwestern Pakistan is nothing more than an extension of Afghanistan. It is clearly a launching point and think tank of Al Queda and Taliban strategies. And, imo, one of the last remaining unimpeded bastions of Islamo-terrorists on Earth. If Musharaff and Bush have any interest in ending this anytime soon we'll see American troops on Pakistani soil within weeks. It won't happen, but that's what needs to happen. Divert those boys from Iraq and get them where we need them.
"Worse than traitors in arms are the men who pretend loyalty to the flag, feast and fatten on the misfortunes of the nation while patriotic blood is crimsoning the plains." -- Abraham Lincoln
Pakistan says it has strong proof that al-Qaeda assassinated opposition politician Benazir Bhutto at an election rally on Thursday.
The interior ministry said it had intelligence indicating Baitullah Mehsud, whom it called an "al-Qaeda leader", was behind the killing.
Baitullah Mehsud is a wanted pro-Taleban militant leader based in the South Waziristan tribal region.
Ms Bhutto has been buried in her family tomb amid scenes of mass grieving.
Video of her last moments before the attack in Rawalpindi was shown at the news conference given in Islamabad by the interior ministry.
Addressing reporters, ministry spokesman Javed Iqbal Cheema said the primary cause of Ms Bhutto's death appeared to have been a knock on her head as she tried to duck her attacker, and not bullets or shrapnel.
A surgeon who treated her, Dr Mussadiq Khan, had earlier said she may have died from a shrapnel wound.
Brig Cheema added that all possible security arrangements had been put in place for Ms Bhutto.
Her supporters say the government did not do enough to protect her.
After a previous attempt on her life in October, Ms Bhutto accused rogue elements of the Pakistani intelligence services of involvement.
'Congratulations'
Pakistani intelligence services had intercepted a call from Baitullah Mehsud in which he allegedly congratulated another militant after Bhutto's death, Brig Cheema said.
There was, he added, "irrefutable evidence that al-Qaeda, its networks and cohorts were trying to destabilise Pakistan".
Talking about the cause of Ms Bhutto's death, the spokesman said she had died from a head wound.
It was, he said, sustained when she smashed against the sunroof's lever as she tried to shelter inside the car from the gunman, who set off a bomb after opening fire with a gun.
"The lever struck near her right ear and fractured her skull," he said.
"There was no bullet or metal shrapnel found in the injury."
Ms Bhutto's security adviser Rehman Malik had earlier said she had been shot in the neck and chest by the gunman.
"We have to change the concept of patriotism to one of “matriotism” — love of humanity that transcends war. A matriarch would never send her own children off to wars that kill other people’s children." Cindy Sheehan --- London, Brixton, 14 July 1993 London, Wembley, 1996 London, Wembley, 18 June 2007 London, O2, 18 August 2009 London, Hammersmith Apollo (Ed solo), 31 July 2012 Milton Keynes Bowl, 11 July 2014
London, Hammersmith Apollo (Ed solo), 06 June 2017
I am from Pakistan and its a great loss to our country. I haven't slept since yesterday, I am sad, angry and depressed. Benazir was not perfect but she was the only hope we had. I believe we have hit rock bottom and the only way to go from here is up.
In addition I don't think Pakistan is a fucked country, and I take offense to anyone who says such things. We are and have been a country with a fucked up government, a government who for the last 10 years has been screwing the people over.
I feel sad for her 3 kids, and for our country. However, like I said I hope we turn this into a positive and reign in democracy.
RIP Benazir, and long live PAKISTAN!!!!!!!
Toronto 03, 05, 06, 09
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EDDIE 08
I am from Pakistan and its a great loss to our country. I haven't slept since yesterday, I am sad, angry and depressed. Benazir was not perfect but she was the only hope we had. I believe we have hit rock bottom and the only way to go from here is up.
In addition I don't think Pakistan is a fucked country, and I take offense to anyone who says such things. We are and have been a country with a fucked up government, a government who for the last 10 years has been screwing the people over.
I feel sad for her 3 kids, and for our country. However, like I said I hope we turn this into a positive and reign in democracy.
RIP Benazir, and long live PAKISTAN!!!!!!!
That's what gets under my skin about this whole deal, Pakistan is by far the most modern of Islamic countries as far as grasping democratic and western ideologies in regards to human rights and liberties. There were always the provinces in the mountains that were stuck in the 17th century but the rest of the nation seemed to approve of modernization. To see you, the people, caught in the crosshairs of an intentional regression of human progress is REALLY disturbing. It really may come down to a civil war as the radicals from the west collide with the progressives from the east. The only question will be which side the military, under musharaff, fights beside.
"Worse than traitors in arms are the men who pretend loyalty to the flag, feast and fatten on the misfortunes of the nation while patriotic blood is crimsoning the plains." -- Abraham Lincoln
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
wow already starting with the American conspiracy stuff. classic
I'm just repeating what she said.
You didn't even watch or read it before responding...that's your classic.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
What a foolish woman. What was she thinking, standing up in the car like that?? 134 people were just killed in an attempt on her life a couple of weeks ago. She had to know they would try again. Now what good is she? She's dead. Hopefully her party gets the sympathy vote in the election......
Another habit says it's in love with you
Another habit says its long overdue
Another habit like an unwanted friend
I'm so happy with my righteous self
What a foolish woman. What was she thinking, standing up in the car like that?? 134 people were just killed in an attempt on her life a couple of weeks ago. She had to know they would try again. Now what good is she? She's dead. Hopefully her party gets the sympathy vote in the election......
thats a bit harsh dude. some might call it bravery. you disagree.
I was listening to Tariq Ali on the BBC World Service, last night. He damned Bhutto's courage with faint praise by assessing it as "physical", while arguing to the effect that she might have shown stronger political courage by joining the boycott against the upcoming election.
In fact, I'd advise people tune into the BBC World Service for a lot of different, analytical opinions about what's happening in Pakistan right now.
I dont know, who do you think did it? I'm thinkin jeb bush and possibly the fist lady Laura. she is trying to upstage Hilary.
The western media is quickly blaming Al-Qaeda. I think it was the ISI, there's grumblings on whether or not the CIA controls the ISI. Either way, Musharaff is a puppet dictator so it's seems clear why he needs to stay where he is.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
doesnt work like what? this article says she was killed because of US backing. hmmm that must mean mushareff is on the hit list too? and the king of saudi? the Iraqi president? etc etc...
If you back someone you know you don't want (and know they are going down), then you can raise a stink in the name of "terrorism" (immediately cite Al-qaeda) ....then promote your own cause as justification when they do go down.
Just saying...that's how it''s done...that's politics.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Pakistan is the 'Lesser Of Two Evils' to us. This does not mean we should be supporting them, both financially or militarily. We tried that with Saddam Hussein in the 1980s as well as Usama Bin Laden and the Mujahadin... those didn't pan out so well.
And we should remember, Pakistani Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) originally set up the Taliban in Afghanistan after the Soviets decided it was not worth the trouble.
"The ISI also openly backs the Taliban and fuels the 12-year-old insurgency in northern India’s disputed Kashmir province by ‘sponsoring’ Muslim militant groups and ministering its policy of ‘death by a thousand cuts’ that so effectively drove the Soviets out of Afghanistan and led to their political demise."
Add: "Former Pakistani president General Mohammad Zia-ul-Haq, who was ultimately assassinated along with his ISI chief, expanded the agency’s internal charter by tasking it with collecting information on local religious and political groups opposed to his military regime. Under Gen Zia the ISI’s Internal Political Division reportedly assassinated Shah Nawaz Bhutto, one of the two brothers of former Pakistani prime minister Benazir Bhutto, by poisoning him on the French Riviera in 1985. The aim was to intimidate Miss Bhutto into not returning to Pakistan to direct the multi-party movement for the restoration of democracy, but Miss Bhutto refused to be cowed down and returned home, only to be toppled by the ISI soon after becoming prime minister in 1988."
(Source: http://www.janes.com/security/international_security/news/misc/janes011001_1_n.shtml )
...
Also,
"Document 1 - [Excised] to Ron McMullen (Afghanistan Desk), "Developments in Afghanistan," December 5, 1994, Unknown Classification, 1 p. [Excised]
Just as the Taliban are emerging as a major player in Afghanistan, a source [name excised] is troubled over Pakistan's deep involvement in Afghan politics and Pakistan's evident role in the Taliban's recent military successes. His concerns include, "that the GOP [Government of Pakistan] ISI [Inter-Services Intelligence] is deeply involved in the Taleban take over in Kandahar and Qalat," and that Pakistan's efforts to further its agenda in Afghanistan will sabotage U.N. peace efforts currently being led by Mahmoud Mesteri, Special Envoy for Afghanistan for the U.N. Secretary General."
(Ref.: http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB227/index.htm )
...
I consider Pakistan to be the most potentially dangerous country out there because she already possesses both nuclear weapons and tested delivery systems. Couple that with their underlying fundamentalist beliefs... it's no wonder Bin Laden is still on the loose and if anyone is going to supply him with the potential to unleash a nuclear horror... it's Pakistan.
...
Again... somoeone remind me... WHY are we still funnelling cash and weapons to them?
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Pakistan is the 'Lesser Of Two Evils' to us. This does not mean we should be supporting them, both financially or militarily. We tried that with Saddam Hussein in the 1980s as well as Usama Bin Laden and the Mujahadin... those didn't pan out so well.
And we should remember, Pakistani Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) originally set up the Taliban in Afghanistan after the Soviets decided it was not worth the trouble.
"The ISI also openly backs the Taliban and fuels the 12-year-old insurgency in northern India’s disputed Kashmir province by ‘sponsoring’ Muslim militant groups and ministering its policy of ‘death by a thousand cuts’ that so effectively drove the Soviets out of Afghanistan and led to their political demise."
Add: "Former Pakistani president General Mohammad Zia-ul-Haq, who was ultimately assassinated along with his ISI chief, expanded the agency’s internal charter by tasking it with collecting information on local religious and political groups opposed to his military regime. Under Gen Zia the ISI’s Internal Political Division reportedly assassinated Shah Nawaz Bhutto, one of the two brothers of former Pakistani prime minister Benazir Bhutto, by poisoning him on the French Riviera in 1985. The aim was to intimidate Miss Bhutto into not returning to Pakistan to direct the multi-party movement for the restoration of democracy, but Miss Bhutto refused to be cowed down and returned home, only to be toppled by the ISI soon after becoming prime minister in 1988."
(Source: http://www.janes.com/security/international_security/news/misc/janes011001_1_n.shtml )
...
Also,
"Document 1 - [Excised] to Ron McMullen (Afghanistan Desk), "Developments in Afghanistan," December 5, 1994, Unknown Classification, 1 p. [Excised]
Just as the Taliban are emerging as a major player in Afghanistan, a source [name excised] is troubled over Pakistan's deep involvement in Afghan politics and Pakistan's evident role in the Taliban's recent military successes. His concerns include, "that the GOP [Government of Pakistan] ISI [Inter-Services Intelligence] is deeply involved in the Taleban take over in Kandahar and Qalat," and that Pakistan's efforts to further its agenda in Afghanistan will sabotage U.N. peace efforts currently being led by Mahmoud Mesteri, Special Envoy for Afghanistan for the U.N. Secretary General."
(Ref.: http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB227/index.htm )
...
I consider Pakistan to be the most potentially dangerous country out there because she already possesses both nuclear weapons and tested delivery systems. Couple that with their underlying fundamentalist beliefs... it's no wonder Bin Laden is still on the loose and if anyone is going to supply him with the potential to unleash a nuclear horror... it's Pakistan.
...
Again... somoeone remind me... WHY are we still funnelling cash and weapons to them?
Musharaff is Washingtons puppet , he has very little popular support in Pakistan but has the backing of the military, also supported by WAshington. The assissination was a good thing for Washington. So yea I'm wondering.
This is why the western media jumped on the al-qaeda blame game because people aren't afraid of guns so much as bombs. The fact that the western media started pumping out bombs and al-qaeda is immediately a red flag.
nice try...but no cigar, however, you can't un-ring a bell, and many will still think it's Al-qaeda no matter what reports come out after the fact. Again the seeds of neo-con extasy are planted.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Musharaff is Washingtons puppet , he has very little popular support in Pakistan but has the backing of the military, also supported by WAshington. The assissination was a good thing for Washington. So yea I'm wondering.
...
Who benefits from the elimination of Bhutto? Well, the political opponent running against her is one. And the fundamentalist religious fucks that saw her as pushing Western-style secularism to Pakistan. Those are the two big winners with her out of the picture.
Pakistan has postponed their elections to possibly mid-March. It wouldn't surprize one bit if political rallies in Pakistan are subdued due to 'Terrorist threats'. Mushareff is using a page from the Bush/Cheney playbook... terrorists are to blame... but civil liberties are the ones that get knocked off.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Comments
Of course it is. It's full of brown people, right?
thats the first I've heard of that racial slur. no I was referring to the Islamic radicalist that dominate the country.
http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20071227/NEWS02/850862574
Published: Thursday, December 27, 2007
Grounded F-15 fighters a strain on security
Associated Press
FRESNO, Calif. -- The grounding of hundreds of F-15s because of dangerous structural defects is straining the nation's air defense network, forcing states such as Washington and Oregon to rely on their neighbors' fighter jets for protection, and Alaska to depend on the Canadian military.
The Boeing F-15 is the sole fighter at many of the 16 or so "alert" sites around the country, where planes and pilots stand ready to take off at a moment's notice to intercept hijacked airliners, Cessnas that wander into protected airspace, and other threats.
The Air Force grounded about 450 F-15s after one of the fighters began to break apart in the air and crashed Nov. 2 in Missouri. An Air Force investigation found "possible fleetwide airworthiness problems" because of defects in the metal rails that hold the fuselage together.
Compounding the problem created by the grounding, another fighter jet used for homeland defense, the F-16, is in high demand for Iraq operations. And the next-generation fighter, the F-22 Raptor, is only slowly replacing the aging F-15.
Military officials say they moved quickly to patch any holes in the homeland air-defense system, and they report an increase in air defense sorties in the past month, using replacement F-16s. But they acknowledge difficulties.
"When you're filling in, obviously it's going to cause some strain," said Mike Strickler, a spokesman with North American Aerospace Defense Command, which is operated by the U.S. and Canada. "You're spreading resources a little thinner than we would like."
But air defenses have not been compromised, Strickler said. "We can be anywhere at any time," he said.
The Minnesota Air National Guard is manning sites in Hawaii. In Louisiana, the Illinois Air National Guard has been filling in.
And with Oregon's fighters grounded, the California Air National Guard is standing watch for the entire West Coast, an area of more than 300,000 square miles that is home to more than 46 million people in Washington, Oregon, California and slices of Arizona and Nevada.
For three weeks in November, Canadian CF-18s filled in for the F-15s over Alaska.
Where's the money going? Why aren't the candidates asking about this?
Nothing about her death is right, but she and her family had history in her country and I think that is something we, as Americans can not fully understand from their cultural perspective.
I have no doubt she knew she would die upon her return to Pakistan. I also have no doubt that she knew that only through her death would her vision for Pakistan have a chance, that is why she risk so many public appearances in Pakistan. Preventing an assassination in a public forum is next to impossible, we have only to look at our own history.
A call for democracy even through the election process is not achieved overnight. We can bear witness to that fact simply by looking at Iraq. Regardless of who killed her, it is in the world's best interest to ensure that Pakistan remains stable. That should be her legacy, a stable, democratic Pakistan.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7162478.stm
Friday, 28 December 2007, 11:59 GMT
'God help us' - Pakistanis react
As mourners bury former Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto, Pakistanis across the country share their shock and grief at her assassination.
NABEEL ARSHED, STUDENT, RAWALPINDI
I was in Rawalpindi town at the time of the assassination. I heard an explosion but suicide bombs have become routine in this country so I didn't give it a second thought.
When I turned on the news I got the shock of my life.
I come from a family with rightist sympathies but we all feel as if our mother had died. She was a liberal force, a hope for a Pakistan overrun by militancy. Now there is a great vacuum.
My fears are for Pakistan's unity. She went to the restive province of Balochistan and handed her support to the people there. Whatever we were going through, I felt as if she had the power to unite the provinces of Pakistan. Now you can already hear the separatist movement.
Those voices are becoming stronger now that there is no national leader in Pakistan. We were already in a downward spiral, heading towards extremism. This was the last straw: killing a stalwart for democracy.
We were going to give our vote to Benazir. The country has now been handed over to chaos.
ASIFA HASAN, RESEARCHER, ISLAMABAD
I want to cry over the recent events. Somebody has killed my hope.
Everyone I know is feeling a personal loss, even those of us who were not planning to vote for her, and those of us who thought she was corrupt.
It's like a graveyard out there, no one is on the roads. People are heartbroken.
It looks as if Pakistan is closer to instability, closer to disintegration. I don't know what is going to happen now. We are not hearing any political analysis. It's a disaster of such huge proportions that people don't seem to know what to do or say.
I work for the Free and Fair Election network and we were monitoring the elections. The assumption is the election will take place. But I think it will be postponed.
I see my country being pushed to the brink of disaster. Civilian leadership is what keeps the country together. That is what has gone now. There is conflict in the northern areas and that is beginning to spread. The troubled Swat district is barely 300km from Islamabad.
What kind of reaction is going to come out of [Ms Bhutto's] native Sindh province? God help Pakistan.
MOHAMMAD IBRAHIM KUMBHAR, FISH FARMER THATTA, SINDH
We are very worried about our future. The Bhutto family was the shelter for poor people like us. Now we are feeling shelterless. I and my whole family voted for her party and we always will. Now, I don't think there is any alternative.
In Thatta, where I live, in her Sindh province, all the government property has been burned. People feel the tragedy. Many have left the town to go to Larkana where she will be buried.
After morning prayers, I know there will be big problems in the city. We will go onto the streets and we will protest peacefully. Yesterday, our protests were not peaceful but that was because other elements came and caused some trouble. We are planning to gather at the mosque on the main road after prayers to begin our protest at the death of our leader.
Being a Sindhi person, I feel now that Pakistan is no longer in our favour. If Pakistan gives independence to Sindhi people, we will be happy.
She was the symbol of the unity of Pakistan. That no longer exists any more.
FAISAL MAMSA, PSYCHIATRIST, KARACHI
Last night I was stuck in traffic on the streets of Karachi for hours witnessing a stampede as life on the streets became insecure.
I was shocked as I witnessed women running for help, without their shoes, without their headscarves, just running and begging cars to help them and give them a lift to safety.
I felt as if I was living in a civil war. The city was being set on fire. The country had become paralysed.
I think that's a symbol of where Pakistan is going after this assassination. I believe most damage was done by the followers of her party, done in rage, I'm sure. But what has the common man done to deserve this?
We used to feel secure here. Foreign companies were investing in Pakistan, people could go out at night and feel safe. During Musharraf's rule we had an economic boom. After last night, I believe this country is being handed over to militants.
I hate to say it, I might be condemned or killed, but we need to take extreme security measures to curb whatever the militants are doing. I had high hopes for Benazir Bhutto. It was one of her main agendas to control the militants.
Now we have been asked to stay at home for three days. It is literally like a curfew. The main road is empty. I have been trying to trace my patients and some are missing. That makes me wonder what has happened to this country.
UZMA SHARON, TEXTILE LAB TESTER, LAHORE
She was our hope in this bad year. She was a seasoned politician and now there is no one experienced enough to take her mantle.
I am not a political die-hard but she seemed to project a great image for Pakistan. She was a woman and she was strong.
Our image abroad is bad, people believe our women are suppressed. But none of the men in this country were as qualified as her, she would have been a great candidate.
These militants cannot bear a woman. My great fear is that they want to suppress women's rights across Pakistan. I don't know what our younger generation is going to be facing now. The girls here are so enthusiastic about participating in public life but now they may have to be confined to their home.
This is the image of Pakistan that the media portrays anyway: that we wear burkas, that we have no freedom. But after this incident, it may well become a reality. I am worried about the Talebanisation of our country.
The military holds the nukes and also controls the ISI. Of course most of our aid money is going to the military, they're the only thing about that country that our government cares about. Does Haqqani really and truly believe that the US would send that much money in humanitarian aid to a nation on the other side of the world? In theory, it may be the right thing to do, but in reality it's not in our best interests. Not that I 100% agree, but it's not difficult to see why the money goes where it does.
IMO, either Musharaff opens his western border to American troops or he proves, atleast to me, that he's in cahoots with the Taliban elements rooted in that sector of his country. If he cries foul with this murder, which he absolutely HAS to be happy about deep down inside, then he needs to backup his rhetoric and help to destroy those harmful elements within his borders. I know I'm not alone in the belief that the American presence/war in Afghanistan was/is a valid effort whereas Iraq is not. Northwestern Pakistan is nothing more than an extension of Afghanistan. It is clearly a launching point and think tank of Al Queda and Taliban strategies. And, imo, one of the last remaining unimpeded bastions of Islamo-terrorists on Earth. If Musharaff and Bush have any interest in ending this anytime soon we'll see American troops on Pakistani soil within weeks. It won't happen, but that's what needs to happen. Divert those boys from Iraq and get them where we need them.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/7163307.stm
Pakistan says it has strong proof that al-Qaeda assassinated opposition politician Benazir Bhutto at an election rally on Thursday.
The interior ministry said it had intelligence indicating Baitullah Mehsud, whom it called an "al-Qaeda leader", was behind the killing.
Baitullah Mehsud is a wanted pro-Taleban militant leader based in the South Waziristan tribal region.
Ms Bhutto has been buried in her family tomb amid scenes of mass grieving.
Video of her last moments before the attack in Rawalpindi was shown at the news conference given in Islamabad by the interior ministry.
Addressing reporters, ministry spokesman Javed Iqbal Cheema said the primary cause of Ms Bhutto's death appeared to have been a knock on her head as she tried to duck her attacker, and not bullets or shrapnel.
A surgeon who treated her, Dr Mussadiq Khan, had earlier said she may have died from a shrapnel wound.
Brig Cheema added that all possible security arrangements had been put in place for Ms Bhutto.
Her supporters say the government did not do enough to protect her.
After a previous attempt on her life in October, Ms Bhutto accused rogue elements of the Pakistani intelligence services of involvement.
'Congratulations'
Pakistani intelligence services had intercepted a call from Baitullah Mehsud in which he allegedly congratulated another militant after Bhutto's death, Brig Cheema said.
There was, he added, "irrefutable evidence that al-Qaeda, its networks and cohorts were trying to destabilise Pakistan".
Talking about the cause of Ms Bhutto's death, the spokesman said she had died from a head wound.
It was, he said, sustained when she smashed against the sunroof's lever as she tried to shelter inside the car from the gunman, who set off a bomb after opening fire with a gun.
"The lever struck near her right ear and fractured her skull," he said.
"There was no bullet or metal shrapnel found in the injury."
Ms Bhutto's security adviser Rehman Malik had earlier said she had been shot in the neck and chest by the gunman.
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In addition I don't think Pakistan is a fucked country, and I take offense to anyone who says such things. We are and have been a country with a fucked up government, a government who for the last 10 years has been screwing the people over.
I feel sad for her 3 kids, and for our country. However, like I said I hope we turn this into a positive and reign in democracy.
RIP Benazir, and long live PAKISTAN!!!!!!!
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EDDIE 08
That's what gets under my skin about this whole deal, Pakistan is by far the most modern of Islamic countries as far as grasping democratic and western ideologies in regards to human rights and liberties. There were always the provinces in the mountains that were stuck in the 17th century but the rest of the nation seemed to approve of modernization. To see you, the people, caught in the crosshairs of an intentional regression of human progress is REALLY disturbing. It really may come down to a civil war as the radicals from the west collide with the progressives from the east. The only question will be which side the military, under musharaff, fights beside.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIO8B6fpFSQ
Osama Bin Laden was murdered?
Was she perhaps silenced?
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
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wow already starting with the American conspiracy stuff. classic
I'm just repeating what she said.
You didn't even watch or read it before responding...that's your classic.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
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I dont know, who do you think did it? I'm thinkin jeb bush and possibly the fist lady Laura. she is trying to upstage Hilary.
Another habit says its long overdue
Another habit like an unwanted friend
I'm so happy with my righteous self
thats a bit harsh dude. some might call it bravery. you disagree.
In fact, I'd advise people tune into the BBC World Service for a lot of different, analytical opinions about what's happening in Pakistan right now.
The western media is quickly blaming Al-Qaeda. I think it was the ISI, there's grumblings on whether or not the CIA controls the ISI. Either way, Musharaff is a puppet dictator so it's seems clear why he needs to stay where he is.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
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( o.O)
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yes I do disagree. Coming out of exile and running again was brave. This was foolish. Now what??
Another habit says its long overdue
Another habit like an unwanted friend
I'm so happy with my righteous self
easy fella. just get back from the gym? I think it was brave. and so are her supporters.
I meant now what, as in now what are her supporters supposed to do.
Another habit says its long overdue
Another habit like an unwanted friend
I'm so happy with my righteous self
rally around someone else with the same principles of freedom and democracy. who? I have no idea, but im sure they do
I don't know. I think all hope is lost now. I guess we'll have to wait and see.
Another habit says its long overdue
Another habit like an unwanted friend
I'm so happy with my righteous self
Well, it doesn't work like that, I'm afraid.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India/US_backing_made_Benazir_a_marked_woman_Imran/articleshow/2659645.cms
doesnt work like what? this article says she was killed because of US backing. hmmm that must mean mushareff is on the hit list too? and the king of saudi? the Iraqi president? etc etc...
Just saying...that's how it''s done...that's politics.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
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( o.O)
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And we should remember, Pakistani Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) originally set up the Taliban in Afghanistan after the Soviets decided it was not worth the trouble.
"The ISI also openly backs the Taliban and fuels the 12-year-old insurgency in northern India’s disputed Kashmir province by ‘sponsoring’ Muslim militant groups and ministering its policy of ‘death by a thousand cuts’ that so effectively drove the Soviets out of Afghanistan and led to their political demise."
Add: "Former Pakistani president General Mohammad Zia-ul-Haq, who was ultimately assassinated along with his ISI chief, expanded the agency’s internal charter by tasking it with collecting information on local religious and political groups opposed to his military regime. Under Gen Zia the ISI’s Internal Political Division reportedly assassinated Shah Nawaz Bhutto, one of the two brothers of former Pakistani prime minister Benazir Bhutto, by poisoning him on the French Riviera in 1985. The aim was to intimidate Miss Bhutto into not returning to Pakistan to direct the multi-party movement for the restoration of democracy, but Miss Bhutto refused to be cowed down and returned home, only to be toppled by the ISI soon after becoming prime minister in 1988."
(Source: http://www.janes.com/security/international_security/news/misc/janes011001_1_n.shtml )
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Also,
"Document 1 - [Excised] to Ron McMullen (Afghanistan Desk), "Developments in Afghanistan," December 5, 1994, Unknown Classification, 1 p. [Excised]
Just as the Taliban are emerging as a major player in Afghanistan, a source [name excised] is troubled over Pakistan's deep involvement in Afghan politics and Pakistan's evident role in the Taliban's recent military successes. His concerns include, "that the GOP [Government of Pakistan] ISI [Inter-Services Intelligence] is deeply involved in the Taleban take over in Kandahar and Qalat," and that Pakistan's efforts to further its agenda in Afghanistan will sabotage U.N. peace efforts currently being led by Mahmoud Mesteri, Special Envoy for Afghanistan for the U.N. Secretary General."
(Ref.: http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB227/index.htm )
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I consider Pakistan to be the most potentially dangerous country out there because she already possesses both nuclear weapons and tested delivery systems. Couple that with their underlying fundamentalist beliefs... it's no wonder Bin Laden is still on the loose and if anyone is going to supply him with the potential to unleash a nuclear horror... it's Pakistan.
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Again... somoeone remind me... WHY are we still funnelling cash and weapons to them?
Hail, Hail!!!
Musharaff is Washingtons puppet , he has very little popular support in Pakistan but has the backing of the military, also supported by WAshington. The assissination was a good thing for Washington. So yea I'm wondering.
so many differing stories, but the reality is she was shot, and the truth is coming out http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=36727§ionid=351020401
nice try...but no cigar, however, you can't un-ring a bell, and many will still think it's Al-qaeda no matter what reports come out after the fact. Again the seeds of neo-con extasy are planted.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
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( o.O)
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Who benefits from the elimination of Bhutto? Well, the political opponent running against her is one. And the fundamentalist religious fucks that saw her as pushing Western-style secularism to Pakistan. Those are the two big winners with her out of the picture.
Pakistan has postponed their elections to possibly mid-March. It wouldn't surprize one bit if political rallies in Pakistan are subdued due to 'Terrorist threats'. Mushareff is using a page from the Bush/Cheney playbook... terrorists are to blame... but civil liberties are the ones that get knocked off.
Hail, Hail!!!