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Time. Linear or circular??

ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
edited April 2008 in A Moving Train
I dreamed about this issue last night. (Yeah, one of those half awake, half asleep type things).
So is time linear, or circular? Is the world made up of atoms, or waves of interconnectedness?
Is linear time a purely human construct?
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  • rmst09rmst09 Posts: 57
    What was the argument for circular time? I'm leaning towards linear unless of course you're staring at a clock.
  • justamjustam Posts: 21,412
    Well...

    Clocks and planet rotations are both round.

    The idea of time being linear does seem to be just a way for people to organize the idea that something happened in the past or will happen in the future before or after a certain number of sun-ups and downs...

    So, who knows?
    &&&&&&&&&&&&&&
  • angelicaangelica Posts: 6,038
    "Time. Linear or circular??"

    I say it's an illusion. We experience time because we think it's there. When we experience the world as is, rather than through a filter of our thoughts...we see things as they are, in the eternal now.
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    RMST09 wrote:
    What was the argument for circular time? I'm leaning towards linear unless of course you're staring at a clock.

    It all comes down to perception - of course. So, I'm thinking of shamanism, American Indian beliefs - for example - along with quantum physics and the fact that independent of our perception/observation, which perceives reality in terms of atoms and seperateness, reality is measured in terms of waves and interconnectedness.

    Also, if you try to conceive of a beginning or an end of time you find yourself in the realm of the absurd, and the impossible. Therefore a circular idea of time appears to make more sense.
  • angelicaangelica Posts: 6,038
    Byrnzie wrote:
    ..reality is measured ..
    Key here is the act of "measuring". To measure, we need to use time. Therefore we cannot "measure" beyond time. In our western world, we like to tell ourselves that if we cannot measure something, it doesn't exist. Silly ego.
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • rmst09rmst09 Posts: 57
    angelica wrote:
    Key here is the act of "measuring". To measure, we need to use time. Therefore we cannot "measure" beyond time. In our western world, we like to tell ourselves that if we cannot measure something, it doesn't exist. Silly ego.

    No. Then we just say that God did it.
  • beachdwellerbeachdweller Posts: 1,532
    I don't think it's linear, but linear fits our ability to understand better. I wonder if we'll ever evolve enough in our knowledge as a species to figure it out?

    If the big bang started our Universe, what was there before? Where did the bangee come from.

    the show "The Universe" had a deep theory about the Universe being cyclical, and every 35 Billion years (may be off alittle on this #) it implodes and explodes (re-bangs), regardless, it all goes back to something didn't come from nothing, and this is where my search for God comes in...

    This doesn't even start to get into multiple demensions, string theory, etc...

    It's an amazing adventure learning about this kind of stuff, knowing what we didn't know and thought we knew 100 years ago, and what we do know and think we know now...wow...where will our knowledge and understanding by in 2050? beyond?
    "Music, for me, was fucking heroin." eV (nothing Ed has said is more true for me personally than this quote)

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  • Smellyman2Smellyman2 Posts: 689
    i wish i kuld tipe smart.


    Seriously though. I wish I had a time machine.
  • beachdwellerbeachdweller Posts: 1,532
    Smellyman wrote:
    i wish i kuld tipe smart.


    Seriously though. I wish I had a time machine.

    your body couldn't handle the trip, so it's believed, lol.

    but yes, that would be cool, though the whole anything you do in the past can effect the future in ways we can't see kinda sucks..butterfly effect...

    would be cool to be at the Off Ramp Cafe on 10.22.1990...
    "Music, for me, was fucking heroin." eV (nothing Ed has said is more true for me personally than this quote)

    Stop by:
    http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=14678777351&ref=mf
  • ToolgardenToolgarden Posts: 88
    Time is not a line or a circle. It's a point...in your mind.

    Right.
    "Should I tell you my room is walled up? In what way might I leave it? Here is how; Goodwill knows no obstacle. Nothing can stand before a deep desire. All I have to do is imagine a door." -Schultz

    Trading stories with the leaves instead
  • he still standshe still stands Posts: 2,835
    Piece of advice: Don't try to answer this question with a head full of acid. It could lead you to places you don't want to be. ;)
    Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    he still stands wrote:
    Piece of advice: Don't try to answer this question with a head full of acid. It could lead you to places you don't want to be. ;)

    You wouldn't need to ask the question on acid. It just hands the answer to you on a plate. Or is it your brain on a plate? Or an egg? :confused:
  • macgyver06macgyver06 Posts: 2,500
    I think when thinking of time according to sets of days and structured boundaries of the transition from day to night.. it can appear linear


    BUT


    if you imagine us as no more important than the cycles of weather.. its patterns... natural disasters... the ocean currents... the tide... if we are one in the same.. than time must be circular as mother nature cleans itself off.. and straightens things up every now and again... its a revolving cycle it seems.

    if im confusing heres the root of this thought i had (example):

    Hurricanes here in Florida come hard every so often.. NOT EVERY YEAR..

    but

    when its been a long time between when a strong one hits... it can feel devastating to the environment where as the trees and weaker parts of the environment are broken down and washed away... so that the next hurricane even if the same strength... will appear to be weaker... but in actuality its just that the trees left standing are still there because they are the strongest... and i think this can apply to houses that demolish with no outside occurence except the strenght of the hurricane


    lol.. what i think this all means is...

    time is an illusion.. like ANGELICA said simply..

    if you dont think in sets of days.. you might be considered a drifter... but you will be on the outside looking in...

    maybe thats why geniuses are crazy to us.
  • macgyver06macgyver06 Posts: 2,500
    also...


    the answers may in fact be fatal... so be careful thinking about this.. if you get to close.. you might not be able to tell anyone
  • he still standshe still stands Posts: 2,835
    Byrnzie wrote:
    You wouldn't need to ask the question on acid. It just hands the answer to you on a plate. Or is it your brain on a plate? Or an egg? :confused:

    Brick, are you saying that there's a party in your pants and that I'm invited?
    Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
  • ZanneZanne Posts: 899
    he still stands wrote:
    Brick, are you saying that there's a party in your pants and that I'm invited?

    I thought that was "I heard there's a party in your mouth and everyone's coming".
    Just me
  • he still standshe still stands Posts: 2,835
    Zanne wrote:
    I thought that was "I heard there's a party in your mouth and everyone's coming".

    Mine was from the movie "Anchorman."

    Brick Tamland: I would like to extend to you an invitation to the pants party.
    Veronica Corningstone: Excuse me?
    Brick Tamland: [struggling] The... party. With the... with the pants. Party with pants?
    Veronica Corningstone: Brick, are you saying that there's a party in your pants and that I'm invited?
    Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
  • angelicaangelica Posts: 6,038
    macgyver06 wrote:
    also...


    the answers may in fact be fatal... so be careful thinking about this.. if you get to close.. you might not be able to tell anyone
    That's another illusion!!!

    The void of uncertainty, it keeps us back in the world of the veils, held securely by our fear. The only thing to fear is fear itself! Literally! When we face our deepest fears, we realize they are all illusions. All that exists is unbroken and perfect wholeness, Is-ness, BEing-ness! To move beyond the void and past fear is to move into the field of all possibilities!
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • macgyver06macgyver06 Posts: 2,500
    angelica wrote:
    That's another illusion!!!

    The void of uncertainty, it keeps us back in the world of the veils, held securely by our fear. The only thing to fear is fear itself! Literally! When we face our deepest fears, we realize they are all illusions. All that exists is unbroken and perfect wholeness, Is-ness, BEing-ness! To move beyond the void and past fear is to move into the field of all possibilities!



    i see what you are saying and you are right.

    the wholeness... is-ness, beingness i like that

    but its not fear i dont think... im trying to say.. if you are going to try and live in this society here in america... it could become very difficult if you get to deep... not that you shouldnt.... just be aware...

    what im saying is probably bullshit... just look for someone on the same level... and hopefully they kept themselves in good condition so you can tolerate their presense :)
  • SilverSeedSilverSeed Posts: 336
    I think of time as infinite, it is not correlated with the physical. Let's go to the big bang. Did time exist before that? I would say so. If not, then what is time really? Just because we measure it does not give it physical attributes, or correlate it with any physical aspects of the universe. It seems the linear/circular argument is based in the appearance/disappearance of matter. Infinity is neither circular nor linear, but all encompassing.
    When Jesus said "Love your enemies" he probably didn't mean kill them...

    "Sometimes I think I'd be better off dead. No, wait, not me, you." -Deep Toughts, Jack Handy
  • angelicaangelica Posts: 6,038
    macgyver06 wrote:
    i see what you are saying and you are right.

    the wholeness... is-ness, beingness i like that

    but its not fear i dont think... im trying to say.. if you are going to try and live in this society here in america... it could become very difficult if you get to deep... not that you shouldnt.... just be aware...

    what im saying is probably bullshit... just look for someone on the same level... and hopefully they kept themselves in good condition so you can tolerate their presense :)

    You definitely have a point. When we step beyond what is the generally accepted 'reality' we better have/find some major inner groundedness, and external supports....it's not easy...it's called the road less travelled for a reason! There is a huge void there, and many challenges to overcome. It can be done, still!
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • FinsburyParkCarrotsFinsburyParkCarrots Seattle, WA Posts: 12,223
    I went to see a brilliant lecture about this by Professor Romila Thapar, as part of the Darwin Lecture Series on Time, here in Cambridge in 2000: "Cyclic and Linear Time in Early India".


    The lecture was published a few years later. You might be able to get hold of it.
  • AbookamongstthemanyAbookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    All we ever have is now
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    he still stands wrote:
    Brick, are you saying that there's a party in your pants and that I'm invited?

    There's always a party in my pants. It's like Ibiza down there. Get's a bit noisy at times though.
  • ClimberInOzClimberInOz Posts: 216
    I'll post some more in depth thoughts when I get time...(sorry, but there is no way of making that statement with out turning it into a bad pun).

    There is a definite linkage between time and space, and especially between relative position and time... Time dilation (time changes due to velocity) has been tested and proven. The faster you go, the slower time passes for you relative to a non-moving individual. Similar effects occur due to gravity.

    So time is certainly not uniform. It is also possible that the 'direction' of time is linked to the second law of thermodynamics and the net increase in entropy. If the universe is cyclic, and collapses on itself, and if the second law of thermodynamics is reversed, then time may reverse with it.

    Of course time may also be an illusion, or at least our perspective of it seriously flawed. I don't think that there is enough evidence for anything more than theories at this stage... but of course I could be wrong.
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    FinsburyParkCarrots wrote:
    I went to see a brilliant lecture about this by Professor Romila Thapar, as part of the Darwin Lecture Series on Time, here in Cambridge in 2000: "Cyclic and Linear Time in Early India".


    The lecture was published a few years later. You might be able to get hold of it.

    Cheers. I'll try and check it out.
  • macgyver06macgyver06 Posts: 2,500
    angelica wrote:
    You definitely have a point. When we step beyond what is the generally accepted 'reality' we better have/find some major inner groundedness, and external supports....it's not easy...it's called the road less travelled for a reason! There is a huge void there, and many challenges to overcome. It can be done, still!


    your so fucking positive... and i think you're right.

    10 stars.
  • angelicaangelica Posts: 6,038
    macgyver06 wrote:
    your so fucking positive... and i think you're right.

    10 stars.
    :)
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • barakabaraka Posts: 1,268
    Byrnzie wrote:
    So is time linear, or circular?

    Interesting question, Byrnzie. I'm not sure how time can be circular. There is an arrow of time, and if the arrow of time was to change direction, then that would be a physical event, as such scientists want to figure out the math and logic behind that event.

    If however the arrow of time has had the same direction since the big bang or whatever started it all, then it is a pointless theory, unless it changes direction.
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Is linear time a purely human construct?

    I believe most scientists separate between what we perceive and what the physical reality of the situation is. I think that we do need a physical time dimension for mass to be able to move, and that this time is different from our mental time, the time we create by retrieving memories and experiencing time with our senses.
    The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
    but the illusion of knowledge.
    ~Daniel Boorstin

    Only a life lived for others is worth living.
    ~Albert Einstein
  • LikeAnOceanLikeAnOcean Posts: 7,718
    Time doesn't exist.. it is just a map the human mind lays out to help explain a series of events.

    For example, when you sleep at night, 8 hours goes by in the blink of an eye.. when we die.. billions of "years" will go by in the blink of an eye..

    Want proof?.. we'll infinite went on before you were born in the blink of an eye.. Time is not a thing. Just a simplified human explanation of the order of things..

    Everything is in the now.

    When you die, will everything cease to exist? And if it goes on, how will you know it is and would it matter..

    OK, my head is going to implode. :p
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