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michael moore sucks.

michaelcassiomichaelcassio Posts: 72
edited November 2008 in A Moving Train
anyone seen this guy lately? man, he's big:

http://movies.monstersandcritics.com/features/article_1391888.php/In_photos_58th_Annual_ACE_Eddie_Awards?page=3


talk about sicko. maybe he should focus less on national healthcare and more on his personal diet and exercise habits.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • BUFFALOBUFFALO Posts: 760
    hell no bro ... totaly disagree ... america should be ashamed of themselves for treating americans the way they do ... or should i say lack of treating :( its quite sad ....

    cheers to moore for putin to em
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  • farfromglorifiedfarfromglorified Posts: 5,696
    Michael's impending heart attack is really in a race with America's adoption of universal health care.....
  • blackredyellowblackredyellow Posts: 5,889
    farfromglorified wrote:
    Michael's impending heart attack is really in a race with America's adoption of universal health care.....

    If I were a betting man, I would take the heart attack as winning that race.
    My whole life
    was like a picture
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    “We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
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  • farfromglorifiedfarfromglorified Posts: 5,696
    blackredyellow wrote:
    If I were a betting man, I would take the heart attack as winning that race.

    I'd take the dark horse of diabetes....
  • cornnifercornnifer Posts: 2,130
    i don't know what Michael Moore's morbid obesity, pending heart attack, or pending diabetes has to do with his social commentary. Personally, i think he is an obvious propagandist in his own right. His films and commentary are transparently spun, distorted and over the top. That being said, he does point out issues that seriously need to be addressed. Being fairly leftist myself, i tend to appreciate him to a certain degree. He IS pretty hard to take to seriously though. He is kind of like the polar opposite of Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity. Not really the place to look for unbiased, unspun, objective commentary.
    "When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
  • tybirdtybird Posts: 17,388
    cornnifer wrote:
    i don't know what Michael Moore's morbid obesity, pending heart attack, or pending diabetes has to do with his social commentary. Personally, i think he is an obvious propagandist in his own right. His films and commentary are transparently spun, distorted and over the top. That being said, he does point out issues that seriously need to be addressed. Being fairly leftist myself, i tend to appreciate him to a certain degree. He IS pretty hard to take to seriously though. He is kind of like the polar opposite of Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity. Not really the place to look for unbiased, unspun, objective commentary.
    Great points....one and all....and I tend to agree with your analysis.
    All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed.
  • farfromglorifiedfarfromglorified Posts: 5,696
    cornnifer wrote:
    i don't know what Michael Moore's morbid obesity, pending heart attack, or pending diabetes has to do with his social commentary.

    They have everything to do with his recent social commentary when that commentary suggests that Michael Moore's morbid obesity, pending heart attack or pending diabetes become my responsibility.
    Personally, i think he is an obvious propagandist in his own right. His films and commentary are transparently spun, distorted and over the top. That being said, he does point out issues that seriously need to be addressed.

    I agree! Now, wouldn't you also agree that Michael Moore's morbid obesity, pending heart attack or pending diabetes are also issues that seriously need to be addressed?
    Being fairly leftist myself, i tend to appreciate him to a certain degree. He IS pretty hard to take to seriously though. He is kind of like the polar opposite of Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity. Not really the place to look for unbiased, unspun, objective commentary.

    Very much agreed.
  • Kel VarnsenKel Varnsen Posts: 1,952
    cornnifer wrote:
    i don't know what Michael Moore's morbid obesity, pending heart attack, or pending diabetes has to do with his social commentary.

    I think there is some irony in the fact that he is critical of problems in the US health care system when a major drain on the health care system is obese people. If people generally ate better and exercised there would be more doctors available for people who need them.
  • angelicaangelica Posts: 6,038
    I'd like to see people become educated on eating disorders.
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

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  • Will1659Will1659 Posts: 51
    angelica wrote:
    I'd like to see people become educated on eating disorders.
    Yeah so would I. But the prevalence of real eating disorders is so far below that of obesity in this country, it's not even an argument. Both are bad for you. But one is just much more of a public health concern right now.
  • angelicaangelica Posts: 6,038
    Will1659 wrote:
    Yeah so would I. But the prevalence of real eating disorders is so far below that of obesity in this country, it's not even an argument. Both are bad for you. But one is just much more of a public health concern right now.
    What is your source of information?
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

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  • DOSWDOSW Posts: 2,014
    He's a very talented filmmaker and he's great at getting a point across. But as we all know, he's not a good source for unbiased information.
    It's a town full of losers and I'm pulling out of here to win
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,304
    Kel Varnsen wrote:
    I think there is some irony in the fact that he is critical of problems in the US health care system when a major drain on the health care system is obese people. If people generally ate better and exercised there would be more doctors available for people who need them.

    you ever hear of genetics? not all obese people are gluttons. not all people with cardiac issues are obese, not all diabetics are obese. obesity can lead to a multitude of health problems, but there are more causes of obesity than poor diet and lack of exercise. his health issues, potential or otherwise should have no bearing on your opinion of him.

    i am not understanding your second sentence. i take it as if you are saying "if everyone ate and exercised, then there would be more doctors available for people who REALLY need them" as if obesity is something that does not require medical attention. what do you think primary care doctors deal with???? hypertension, diabetes, high cholesterol, COPD, osteoarthritis, etc all potential effects of obesity. these are what keeps primary care doctors in business. if there were no obese people there would be alot of doctors sitting around picking their noses with no patients to treat.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

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  • fragileblakefragileblake Posts: 716
    Maybe you should attack his ideas instead of his appearance. Oh wait, that would actually require some intelligence.
    michaelcassio wrote:
    maybe he should focus less on national healthcare and more on his personal diet and exercise habits.
    http://blakepnw.blogspot.com/
  • Will1659Will1659 Posts: 51
    angelica wrote:
    What is your source of information?
    Four years of medical school. The combined lifetime prevalence of anorexia nervosa, bulemia nervosa, and eating disorder not otherwise specified is well under 10%. Overweight, 50%; and actually obese, around 25%. I am not trying to minimize the seriousness of eating disorders; I have seen them firsthand. I am simply saying that to pretend they're a bigger problem than the opposite end of the spectrum is to just be ignorant of the facts.
  • KosmicJelliKosmicJelli Posts: 1,855
    fragileblake wrote:
    Maybe you should attack his ideas instead of his appearance. Oh wait, that would actually require some intelligence.


    thank you...
  • Hitch-HikerHitch-Hiker Posts: 2,873
    cornnifer wrote:
    i don't know what Michael Moore's morbid obesity, pending heart attack, or pending diabetes has to do with his social commentary. Personally, i think he is an obvious propagandist in his own right. His films and commentary are transparently spun, distorted and over the top. That being said, he does point out issues that seriously need to be addressed. Being fairly leftist myself, i tend to appreciate him to a certain degree. He IS pretty hard to take to seriously though. He is kind of like the polar opposite of Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity. Not really the place to look for unbiased, unspun, objective commentary.
    I agree with this. I'm not a fan of Michael Moore or his methods, but he's a thorn in the sideof the authorities and that's always important.
    I'll Ride The Wave Where It Takes Me
  • farfromglorifiedfarfromglorified Posts: 5,696
    I'm not sure why people are bringing up gluttony and eating disorders. Whether or not Michael Moore (or anyone else) is obese because of their own personal gluttony or because of genetic or other factors outside of their control, it does not change the fact that they are a) still obese and b) highly questionable regarding any demands they make upon society as a result of their condition.
  • angelicaangelica Posts: 6,038
    Will1659 wrote:
    Four years of medical school. The combined lifetime prevalence of anorexia nervosa, bulemia nervosa, and eating disorder not otherwise specified is well under 10%. Overweight, 50%; and actually obese, around 25%. I am not trying to minimize the seriousness of eating disorders; I have seen them firsthand. I am simply saying that to pretend they're a bigger problem than the opposite end of the spectrum is to just be ignorant of the facts.

    I'd like to see a link to support your claims.
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • Kel VarnsenKel Varnsen Posts: 1,952
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    you ever hear of genetics? not all obese people are gluttons. not all people with cardiac issues are obese, not all diabetics are obese. obesity can lead to a multitude of health problems, but there are more causes of obesity than poor diet and lack of exercise. his health issues, potential or otherwise should have no bearing on your opinion of him.

    i am not understanding your second sentence. i take it as if you are saying "if everyone ate and exercised, then there would be more doctors available for people who REALLY need them" as if obesity is something that does not require medical attention. what do you think primary care doctors deal with???? hypertension, diabetes, high cholesterol, COPD, osteoarthritis, etc all potential effects of obesity. these are what keeps primary care doctors in business. if there were no obese people there would be alot of doctors sitting around picking their noses with no patients to treat.

    Of course not all overweight people are that way because of overeating, but I would wager that the majority of people who are overweight are. And it definitely has a bearing on my opinion of him. It is like a street racer complaining that cars aren't built with enough safety features or a smoker complaining about the negative health effects of air pollution.

    As far as the availability of doctors it seems like pretty simple math to me. If the number of overweight people were to decrease, the health problems associated with their overweightness would also decrease. Decrease the number of health problems that people have and you decrease the wait times for doctor’s services when people need them so people with other problems can get quicker care. Also if you decrease the demand for doctors then it stands to reason that medical costs would go down (supply and demand).
  • inmytreeinmytree Posts: 4,741
    farfromglorified wrote:
    I'm not sure why people are bringing up gluttony and eating disorders. Whether or not Michael Moore (or anyone else) is obese because of their own personal gluttony or because of genetic or other factors outside of their control, it does not change the fact that they are a) still obese and b) highly questionable regarding any demands they make upon society as a result of their condition.

    fyi...not all health issues are result of obesity...
  • farfromglorifiedfarfromglorified Posts: 5,696
    inmytree wrote:
    fyi...not all health issues are result of obesity...

    Of course not all health issues are a result of obesity. Who made that claim? But if we look at the major health issues facing the population of this nation, a good number of them are the result of or highly correlated to obesity.

    I support anyone's right to be obese as they wish to be or are and to seek out whatever treatment they wish. I also support my own right to either help them or not to help them, based on my standards.
  • spiral outspiral out Posts: 1,052
    DOSW wrote:
    He's a very talented filmmaker and he's great at getting a point across. But as we all know, he's not a good source for unbiased information.

    But who out there is unbiased?

    People always put so much energy into attacking people like Micheal Moore who try to show the other side of the coin.
    Keep on rockin in the free world!!!!

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  • inmytreeinmytree Posts: 4,741
    farfromglorified wrote:
    Of course not all health issues are a result of obesity. Who made that claim? But if we look at the major health issues facing the population of this nation, a good number of them are the result of or highly correlated to obesity.

    I support anyone's right to be obese as they wish to be or are and to seek out whatever treatment they wish. I also support my own right to either help them or not to help them, based on my standards.

    fair enough...in the post I responded to, you seemed to be implying someone who was obese should not be speaking about health care in general...

    and since you'd like the right to help or not help, I'm sure you support the right of those who seek to make changes in the health care system, based on their standards...
  • farfromglorifiedfarfromglorified Posts: 5,696
    inmytree wrote:
    fair enough...in the post I responded to, you seemed to be implying someone who was obese should not be speaking about health care in general...

    I'm definitely not saying that. Michael Moore has every right to speak out about health care. However, I agree with some others here that there is some inherent hypocrisy there.
    and since you'd like the right to help or not help, I'm sure you support the right of those who seek to make changes in the health care system, based on their standards...

    Absolutely! But forcing those changes upon others in the form of mandated insurance, price limits, service procurement via other people's property, criminalization of private health care exchange, and other changes supported by people like Michael Moore are not in that spirit. They attempt to reshape not just their health care choices based on their standards, but everyone's health care choices based on their standards.
  • KannKann Posts: 1,146
    farfromglorified wrote:
    I'm definitely not saying that. Michael Moore has every right to speak out about health care. However, I agree with some others here that there is some inherent hypocrisy there.
    I wouldn't call that hypocrisy. When people talk about healthcare you have to see it has a whole system not as the accumulation of individual potential patients. MM is a fat bastard but you can't say 2 things :
    1 - that MM will not die in an accident in a few years without costing any healthcare related money
    2 - that someone else, in a perfect shape will not discover a terminal disease lasting for several years and costing insane amounts of money.
    Looking at one specific case when you talk about healthcare has no sense, you have to talk about diseases/epidemics because if you had UHC you surely cannot bet that you will end up costing less than MM.
    I understand your arguments against UHC, but saying that fat people reclaiming healthcare are hypocrites is wrong.

    As for obesity it definitely is a problem but people have to stop blaiming genes. Some (and that's not a high percentage) people might be in that case but every person can excercise a few hours a week and reduce the massive mortality related to this condition.
  • farfromglorifiedfarfromglorified Posts: 5,696
    Kann wrote:
    I wouldn't call that hypocrisy.

    It is hypocrisy. If I, as a smoker, ran around telling people "smoking is bad and you should stop smoking", certainly I would be saying something that is true, but it is also hypocritical.
    When people talk about healthcare you have to see it has a whole system not as the accumulation of individual potential patients. MM is a fat bastard but you can't say 2 things :
    1 - that MM will not die in an accident in a few years without costing any healthcare related money
    2 - that someone else, in a perfect shape will not discover a terminal disease lasting for several years and costing insane amounts of money.
    Looking at one specific case when you talk about healthcare has no sense, you have to talk about diseases/epidemics because if you had UHC you surely cannot bet that you will end up costing less than MM.
    I understand your arguments against UHC, but saying that fat people reclaiming healthcare are hypocrites is wrong.

    It depends on what they're saying. A fat person who simply says "the healthcare system in this country is broken" is not a hypocrite. But when people like Michael Moore extend that into moralistic arguments like "America should be ashamed for not taking care of its people", there is an inherent hypocrisy there because Michael Moore is not taking care of himself.
    As for obesity it definitely is a problem but people have to stop blaiming genes. Some (and that's not a high percentage) people might be in that case but every person can excercise a few hours a week and reduce the massive mortality related to this condition.

    Absolutely! However, it's a sad fact and an ugly side affect of government involvement in healthcare that we even have to give a shit about why that person is obese and deal with assigning responsibility. In a system where each individual is resposible for his own healthcare, it doesn't really matter how fat Michael Moore gets, does it? But, when someone else's obesity or smoking habits or excercise habits suddenly become everyone's responsibility, we end up in these ugly blame games.
  • cornnifercornnifer Posts: 2,130
    spiral out wrote:
    But who out there is unbiased?

    People always put so much energy into attacking people like Micheal Moore who try to show the other side of the coin.

    Wen one ONLY shows ONE side of a coin while completely ignoring the other side, that is called biased reporting. Michael Moore, like Hannity, Limbaugh and a host of others on the far right, not only shows just ONE side of the coin, he magnifies that side of the coin and photoshops it quite a bit.
    "When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
  • angelicaangelica Posts: 6,038
    Will1659 wrote:
    Four years of medical school. The combined lifetime prevalence of anorexia nervosa, bulemia nervosa, and eating disorder not otherwise specified is well under 10%. Overweight, 50%; and actually obese, around 25%. I am not trying to minimize the seriousness of eating disorders; I have seen them firsthand. I am simply saying that to pretend they're a bigger problem than the opposite end of the spectrum is to just be ignorant of the facts.
    You may not be deliberately trying to minimize the seriousness of eating disorders, and yet you seem either not aware of or neglected to mention compulsive overeating or binge eating disorder, here. Given these two manifestations of eating issues would be most connected with being overweight and with obesity, they would therefore seem the most applicable of all eating disorder issues in this type of situation.
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • inmytreeinmytree Posts: 4,741
    farfromglorified wrote:
    I'm definitely not saying that. Michael Moore has every right to speak out about health care. However, I agree with some others here that there is some inherent hypocrisy there.

    I guess we'll agree to disagree on this point...

    farfromglorified wrote:
    Absolutely! But forcing those changes upon others in the form of mandated insurance, price limits, service procurement via other people's property, criminalization of private health care exchange, and other changes supported by people like Michael Moore are not in that spirit. They attempt to reshape not just their health care choices based on their standards, but everyone's health care choices based on their standards.

    "spirit" and "criminalization"....? interesting choice of words...

    anyhoo, I guess it could be argued the current health care system is doing the same things you list above, like forcing their (the health care industry) standards on others...forcing doctors and patients to make choices based on saving a buck for the shareholder versus providing the best care possible...
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