San Fran to ban plastic grocery bags

Jeanwah

San Francisco to ban plastic grocery bags
POSTED: 9:39 p.m. EDT, March 27, 2007


SAN FRANCISCO, California (Reuters) -- San Francisco's Board of Supervisors voted Tuesday to become the first U.S. city to ban plastic bags from large supermarkets to help promote recycling.

Under the legislation, beginning in six months large supermarkets and drugstores will not be allowed to offer plastic bags made from petroleum products.

"Many [foreign] cities and nations have already implemented very similar legislation," said Ross Mirkarimi, the city legislator who championed the new law. "It's astounding that San Francisco would be the first U.S. city to follow suit."

"I am hopeful that other U.S. cities will also adopt similar legislation," he said. "Why wait for the federal government to enact legislation that gets to the core of this problem when local governments can just step up to the plate?"

The city's Department of the Environment said San Francisco uses 181 million plastic grocery bags annually. Plans dating back a decade to encourage recycling of the bags have largely failed, with shoppers returning just one percent of bags, said department spokesman Mark Westland.

Mirkarimi said the ban would save 450,000 gallons of oil a year and remove the need to send 1,400 tons of debris now sent annually to landfills. The new rules would, however, allow recyclable plastic bags, which are not widely used today.

A spokesman for San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom, who must approve or veto the legislation, called it sensible. "Chances are good that he is going to sign it," said Nathan Ballard.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/03/27/environment.baggs.reut/index.html


I think this is great. My fave grocery store, Hannaford, sells cloth bags that I've bought and reuse whenever I go to the store. I ask them all the time if others use them, they usually say "not many". They also I know many people reuse the plastic grocery bags, but the majority of bags seem to just get thrown out and take up space in landfills.

Tombourine

There's something similar in Ireland. Each plastic bag costs 15c. It's worked out fine, and nobody really seems bothered, most people just bring reusable cloth bags.

inmytree

this is great!!! I hate those fn plastic bags...

I wonder how the store employees will cope..when I request paper bags, they look at me blankly....usually they don't have them, but if they do find them, they have no clue how to pack them...I usually pack my own bags, but when they do try to help, forget it...

polaris

we need a ban on bottled water!

RockinInCanada

Best news I have read all day, I get upset because where I live there is no option for plastic, need to purchase myself some permenant bags.

If every grocery store would adopt this strategy that would be great.

Whats the average lifetime of a plastic grocey bag, something like 5 minutes or something absurd like that.

baraka

I hate plastic bags. Has anyone else's car ever been attacked by a rogue plastic bag?

farfromglorified

The two quotes in this article should expose this kind of crap for what it is.

baraka

farfromglorified wrote:

The two quotes in this article should expose this kind of crap for what it is.

Can you expound?

farfromglorified

WTF...double-post

farfromglorified

baraka wrote:

Can you expound?

Here are the standards being upheld, according to the city legislator:

"Many [foreign] cities and nations have already implemented very similar legislation....It's astounding that San Francisco would be the first U.S. city to follow suit."

"Why wait for the federal government to enact legislation that gets to the core of this problem when local governments can just step up to the plate?"

Apparently, this guy's best argument for his law amount to:

- Other cities do it
- Local governments can be faster
- We'll somehow use less oil

It just seems silly.

soulsinging

farfromglorified wrote:

Here are the standards being upheld, according to the city legislator:

"Many [foreign] cities and nations have already implemented very similar legislation....It's astounding that San Francisco would be the first U.S. city to follow suit."

"Why wait for the federal government to enact legislation that gets to the core of this problem when local governments can just step up to the plate?"

Apparently, this guy's best argument for his law amount to:

- Other cities do it
- Local governments can be faster
- We'll somehow use less oil

It just seems silly.

so you DONT like the idea of local governments passing legislation like this as opposed to a bloated and out of touch federal government doing it? personally, im all for local governments responding to their community values instead of leaving it to the federal government to make every city in this country exactly the same.

farfromglorified

soulsinging wrote:

so you DONT like the idea of local governments passing legislation like this as opposed to a bloated and out of touch federal government doing it?

Hehe...I'll take a ban in a city I don't live in over a federal ban, if that's what you're asking. A federal ban on paper bags would be unconstitutional, but certainly that wouldn't stop it from happening.

personally, im all for local governments responding to their community values instead of leaving it to the federal government to make every city in this country exactly the same.

"Community values"? Huh? If using paper bags were a "community value", this wouldn't be a problem.

baraka

farfromglorified wrote:

Here are the standards being upheld, according to the city legislator:

"Many [foreign] cities and nations have already implemented very similar legislation....It's astounding that San Francisco would be the first U.S. city to follow suit."

"Why wait for the federal government to enact legislation that gets to the core of this problem when local governments can just step up to the plate?"

Apparently, this guy's best argument for his law amount to:

- Other cities do it
- Local governments can be faster
- We'll somehow use less oil

It just seems silly.

OK, you think the guy's is argument silly, what about the issue at hand, the banning of plastic bags? I am not sure about the correlation to oil & how much less we will use banning plastic bags, but do you think replacing plastic bags with alternatives is a bad idea? Are you worried about the cost to businesses? Will there even be increased costs? If so, how much?

farfromglorified

baraka wrote:

OK, you think the guy's is argument silly, what about the issue at hand, the banning of plastic bags?

I think that's silly as well. Plastic bags aren't a pack of rabid dogs attacking small children and the elderly in the streets, you know. If you don't want plastic bags, don't use them. It's not complicated.

I am not sure about the correlation to oil & how much less we will use banning plastic bags, but do you think replacing plastic bags with alternatives is a bad idea?

Not at all. I highly doubt there are non-negligible oil savings here. It takes oil to cut down a tree and produce paper bags too. But using "alternatives" that biodegrade faster is certainly fine with me, if people want to go that route. That said, using "alternatives" that biodegrade slower and make carrying groceries easier are also fine with me, if people want to go that route.

Are you worried about the cost to businesses?

Not really. Consumers will just pay those costs.

Will there even be increased costs? If so, how much?

Probably, but very slight. I don't have a good idea regarding the data on that.

baraka

farfromglorified wrote:

I think that's silly as well. Plastic bags aren't a pack of rabid dogs attacking small children and the elderly in the streets, you know. If you don't want plastic bags, don't use them. It's not complicated.

Well, you've obviously not had your car attacked by a plastic bag! Ever get one of those bags stuck underneath your car? What the hell is that burning smell? Plastic bags are evil!

Seems like I remember reading an article a while back about how Wal-Mart changed the 'look' of their plastic bags, so they would look like all the other plastic bags. Apparently, it was very easy to notice the millions of Wal-Mart plastic bags at the dump. I'll have to locate that article.

farfromglorified

baraka wrote:

Well, you've obviously not had your car attacked by a plastic bag! Ever get one of those bags stuck underneath your car? What the hell is that burning smell? Plastic bags are evil!

Hehe...why not just ban cars and burning smells then too?

Seems like I remember reading an article a while back about how Wal-Mart changed the 'look' of their plastic bags, so they would look like all the other plastic bags. Apparently, it was very easy to notice the millions of Wal-Mart plastic bags at the dump. I'll have to locate that article.

I'm not really going to jump on the blame Wal-Mart bandwagon for giving people what they ask for.

But hey, I don't live in San Fran. If this is what these people want, it's up to them.

inmytree

farfromglorified wrote:

Here are the standards being upheld, according to the city legislator:

"Many [foreign] cities and nations have already implemented very similar legislation....It's astounding that San Francisco would be the first U.S. city to follow suit."

"Why wait for the federal government to enact legislation that gets to the core of this problem when local governments can just step up to the plate?"

Apparently, this guy's best argument for his law amount to:

- Other cities do it
- Local governments can be faster
- We'll somehow use less oil

It just seems silly.

yeah, it's silly...

I'm pretty sure you could bring your own plastic bags since it means so much to you....or are you arguing just to argue....?

farfromglorified

inmytree wrote:

yeah, it's silly...

I'm pretty sure you could bring your own plastic bags since it means so much to you....or are you arguing just to argue....?

Plastic bags don't mean anything to me.

I'm just shocked people buy into this kind of crap. They see no problem in banning things that are not forced on them and that people could simply choose not to do, and then suggest they're "representing the people" or upholding "community values". It makes no sense.

inmytree

farfromglorified wrote:

Plastic bags don't mean anything to me.

I'm just shocked people buy into this kind of crap. They see no problem in banning things that are not forced on them and that people could simply choose not to do, and then suggest they're "representing the people" or upholding "community values". It makes no sense.

it happens all the time...that's what laws are...

cincybearcat

inmytree wrote:

this is great!!! I hate those fn plastic bags...

I wonder how the store employees will cope..when I request paper bags, they look at me blankly....usually they don't have them, but if they do find them, they have no clue how to pack them...I usually pack my own bags, but when they do try to help, forget it...

Where will these people put their cat box scoupings? I'd have to buy them on the black market if I lived there.

inmytree

cincybearcat wrote:

Where will these people put their cat box scoupings? I'd have to buy them on the black market if I lived there.

feed them to the dog....:D