I was not trying to silence anyone.I just did not like the implication that i did not know what i was talking about.But after my post sponger answered in a good way,so lets not make a batlle out of a discussion.
I was not trying to silence anyone.I just did not like the implication that i did not know what i was talking about.But after my post sponger answered in a good way,so lets not make a batlle out of a discussion.
And let's not forget that I phrased that implication in the form of a question, thus giving you the benefit of the doubt - albeit in a rather presumptuous way.
The act of a person being "silenced" took place in Puck's mind, and Puck's mind only. And I'm sure that scenario played out in his mind for reasons we might not ever comprehend.
The act of a person being "silenced" took place in Puck's mind, and Puck's mind only. And I'm sure that scenario played out in his mind for reasons we might not ever comprehend.
And let's not forget that I phrased that implication in the form of a question, thus giving you the benefit of the doubt - albeit in a rather presumptuous way.
The act of a person being "silenced" took place in Puck's mind, and Puck's mind only. And I'm sure that scenario played out in his mind for reasons we might not ever comprehend.
I do not have to comprehend.Puck is a nice guy.Do not want to make him look bad either,just wanted to explain to the both of you what my intentions were:D
I like how you said that. You said there's a difference between what's approved and what is torture...as if the opposite of torture is what's approved. If you gauge humanity on what is approved and not approved, then your understanding of humane treatment is questionable.
Your comment is a good example of what was discovered during the obedience experiments in the 50's. A test was conducted to see how much abuse a person would enact on another person if that abuse was sanctioned as "allowable" by an observing authority.
The results were that an overwhelming majority of people had little problem with what amounted to serious torture as long as they were being "instructed" to enact that torture. They weren't aware that it was a mock experiment, and that the person being tortured was an actor.
And this willingness comes from the mindset that you displayed just now - the mindset that whatever is approved must not be torture, and vice versa.
In other words, if dogs were approved and tasers not, you'd be saying that tasers are inhumane, while dogs are the more moral option.
you arrived quite far in your speculations in my ideas... if you knew me, you would know that i work for a well-known organization (that i will not name here) that controls the operate of governments... even when they claim to act under the laws. That means: we eventually criticise the same laws if they prospect torture, death penalty, etc.
When i was talking about "recognised methods" i meant methods in respect of Human Rights law.
How is this torture? at all?
If you break the law and are running from the cops, there is a good chance an "attack dog" may be used to bring you down for arrest, how is this different?
Its not being used on the prisoners that are doing what they are instructed to do, only the ones that steadfastly refuse to follow orders.... and the danger is awfully great to a guard to go into a room, alone, with a criminal- armed with only a night stick, for every prisoner that doesnt feel like waking up, or with a grudge.
As far as i know, a taser or mace are not used in the general popluation of the cell area- for the same reason guns arent used.
A dog may be the perfect weapon to use in a jail for this type of thing.... its more intimidating than a taser, beating, or mace- so far more effective in discouraging bad behavior... but is also impossible to be stolen and used by the inmates against the guards.
How is this torture? at all?
If you break the law and are running from the cops, there is a good chance an "attack dog" may be used to bring you down for arrest, how is this different?
Its not being used on the prisoners that are doing what they are instructed to do, only the ones that steadfastly refuse to follow orders.... and the danger is awfully great to a guard to go into a room, alone, with a criminal- armed with only a night stick, for every prisoner that doesnt feel like waking up, or with a grudge.
As far as i know, a taser or mace are not used in the general popluation of the cell area- for the same reason guns arent used.
A dog may be the perfect weapon to use in a jail for this type of thing.... its more intimidating than a taser, beating, or mace- so far more effective in discouraging bad behavior... but is also impossible to be stolen and used by the inmates against the guards.
...do you have the minimum idea of the psycological traumas that this kind of torture gives? Have you ever read/heard any witnesses from tortured people? I guess not...
I think that uoi have to decide: or prisons are made to avoid that certain people should committ crimes again, or are made for your revenge against them.
If you think that they are made for revenge, then don't come and say that the usa attacked iraq to bring there Human Rights, because it seems to me that the level of Human Rights violations in the US jails are the same that were in Iraq in the Saddam period
I cannot believe anny of you can look at that picture and then not see that using dogs to terrify people(because that is what we are talking about here) is going to lead to these kind of curcumstances.And please do not say that in an amarican jail it wil be different....if you give guards this kind of power,some are going to abuse that.If you think like that in my opinion you are just as much a criminal,because you give your ok to violence against sombody that is already doing their time/punishment.
As a matter of fact i do know quit a lot about it yes....i worked at a dog training center.Ok not at the section where the policemen trained their dogs,but i went to see howe they do that and talked to the trainers quite a lot.And i have never met a trainer that said a dog is to be fully trusted,it can always fall back on their instincts if a situation occures that they did not train for.You cannot train a dog for all the unexpected things a prisoner might do when he is scared shitless when a police dog is set free in his cell.
We had here in holland a big thing in the news a few months ago where some police dogs (that were only trained to seperate a group of people)went nuts because of the chaos that was going on.There where young girls and boys that where just coming out of the club that got serious bite wounds,the police could not get control back over the dogs.The dogs had their training and so did the cops that handled the dogs....so it can always happen that instinct takes over when the dogs are scared or something.
edit i think it is the same when a dog is used in an arrest....i also think that can lead to really unpredictable situations!
here in america the police dogs undergo a much more rigorous training regimin than holland evidentally (at a cost of at least 20k per dog to complete)...after working 22 years in fire and ems and i have several friends that are k9 officers and i have asked the similar question...." will the dog ever do as it pleases and not obey?" overwhelmingly the answere is "no"
i know of no such random dog attacks on club goers here in the states nor have i seen anything but minor injuries secondary to k9 officer bites.....these dogs inflict far less physical injury than would a nightstick, beanbag gun or taser. Dog bites actually carry less risk of infection than either a cat scratch or a human bite..plus these dogs do not "maul"...they simply bite and do not release until ordered...inflicting only minor puncture wounds accompianed by minor swelling and bruising (I have treated multiple patients bitten by k9 officers)...these are not sick pitbulls mauling some 12 year olds face...these are highly trained animals/ police officers....like i said earlier, you are comparing apples and oranges comparing k9 officers in holland vs american k9 officers...the us has one of the most sofisticated public safety systems (police, fire, ems) in the world...but it will only be fully effective if we are allowed to protect ourselves and perform our duties as trained without undue outside influence...
as far as firing the officers in question for the earlier noted offenses...im sure they were only following departmental policy, therefore should not hold any liability.
_____________________
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!
- Benjamin Franklin
If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die, I want to go where they went.
-Will Rogers
_____________________
typical amarican statement ...you think everything you do is better then in other countrys.But tell me if you are doing so great why do you need dogs to keep your prisoners in line?
Also the k9 trainers here in holland might be a litlle more reallistic and not so full of their own now how and that might able them to say that even if they train dogs really wel it wil always have a risk.
...do you have the minimum idea of the psycological traumas that this kind of torture gives? Have you ever read/heard any witnesses from tortured people? I guess not...
I think that uoi have to decide: or prisons are made to avoid that certain people should committ crimes again, or are made for your revenge against them.
If you think that they are made for revenge, then don't come and say that the usa attacked iraq to bring there Human Rights, because it seems to me that the level of Human Rights violations in the US jails are the same that were in Iraq in the Saddam period
what is the problem here girls....THESE ARE PRISONERS....THEY ARE NOT OBEYING ORDERS....WHAT THE HELL SHOULD THE GAURDS DO!
maybe they should go in,, hug the prisoner, tell him everything in life is rosey cause amesty international has got his back...give him some warm milk and cookies and tell its ok, we didnt want you to really come out of the cell anyway....AND AS THE GUARD TURNS TO LEAVE HE GETS A SHANK IN THE BACK LEAVING HIS 3 CHILDREN FATHERLESS....
PLEASE GET YOU HEADS OUT OF YER ASSES FOR A CHANGE...
_____________________
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!
- Benjamin Franklin
If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die, I want to go where they went.
-Will Rogers
_____________________
typical amarican statement ...you think everything you do is better then in other countrys.But tell me if you are doing so great why do you need dogs to keep your prisoners in line?
Also the k9 trainers here in holland might be a litlle more reallistic and not so full of their own now how and that might able them to say that even if they train dogs really wel it wil always have a risk.
so i guess thats why the US public safety system sees thousands of visitors from around the globe each year that come here to learn new and better ways to provide public safety....we by no means are perfect...BUT WE ARE THE BEST!
_____________________
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!
- Benjamin Franklin
If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die, I want to go where they went.
-Will Rogers
_____________________
just look at the news....keep on screaming your the best.Al you come up with is that because some americans say it is true then in other country's must be doing it wrong.Stil have not answerd the question though....if you are the best....why do you need dogs to keep your prisoners in line.
typical amarican statement ...you think everything you do is better then in other countrys.But tell me if you are doing so great why do you need dogs to keep your prisoners in line?
Also the k9 trainers here in holland might be a litlle more reallistic and not so full of their own now how and that might able them to say that even if they train dogs really wel it wil always have a risk.
yes you are correct ....there is always a risk when handling animals...but the more training the animal undergoes...the more the risk is minmized....the dogs that bit the club goers that you referred to earlier, obvioulsy were not trained to handle large crowd situations and should have never been on the street...in the US dogs would never be placed in an "off leash" situation in a large crowd like that to start with...the large crowd would be controlled by officers on horseback or on foot in riot gear...the handlers of the dogs you refer to are the ones to blame if the dogs were truly "off leash" in a large crowd.
_____________________
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!
- Benjamin Franklin
If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die, I want to go where they went.
-Will Rogers
_____________________
just look at the news....keep on screaming your the best.Al you come up with is that because some americans say it is true then in other country's must be doing it wrong.Stil have not answerd the question though....if you are the best....why do you need dogs to keep your prisoners in line.
im sorry...didnt realize you couldnt come up with this on your own....the dogs are utilized for officer (human) safety....didnt realize it was that tough of as scenario to understand...
_____________________
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!
- Benjamin Franklin
If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die, I want to go where they went.
-Will Rogers
_____________________
im sorry...didnt realize you couldnt come up with this on your own....the dogs are utilized for officer (human) safety....didnt realize it was that tough of as scenario to understand...
please do not treat me like a litlle kid just because i see things different then you do...But i wil bite.If your officers are trained to be the BEST and everybody from over the world wants to learn from them.....howe come they need k9 teeth to protect them?
what is the problem here girls....THESE ARE PRISONERS....THEY ARE NOT OBEYING ORDERS....WHAT THE HELL SHOULD THE GAURDS DO!
maybe they should go in,, hug the prisoner, tell him everything in life is rosey cause amesty international has got his back...give him some warm milk and cookies and tell its ok, we didnt want you to really come out of the cell anyway....AND AS THE GUARD TURNS TO LEAVE HE GETS A SHANK IN THE BACK LEAVING HIS 3 CHILDREN FATHERLESS....
PLEASE GET YOU HEADS OUT OF YER ASSES FOR A CHANGE...
so i guess thats why the US public safety system sees thousands of visitors from around the globe each year that come here to learn new and better ways to provide public safety....we by no means are perfect...BUT WE ARE THE BEST!
indeed, 2% of the population of the US is in prison. Beautiful safe country...
please do not treat me like a litlle kid just because i see things different then you do...But i wil bite.If your officers are trained to be the BEST and everybody from over the world wants to learn from them.....howe come they need k9 teeth to protect them?
you ever bean assualted (physically and verbally), been spit on, had feces slung at you?....ever worked on violent felons in a maximum security prison?....ever feared for your life while you were trying to help the victim of a violent crime? ever transported a murderer in your ambulance? ever dealt with a non compliant prisoner that didnt repsond to the nightstick and pepper spray?
well sister...i can answer yes to all of the above....and until you can walk in a police oficers shoes for even just a couple of hours....dont you dare have the nerve to sit there in your fantasy world and repeatedly ask me why an officer would need a dog when YOUR DAMN QUESTION HAS BEEN ANSWERED REPEATEDLY IN THIS FORUM....IM DONE WITH YOU...BACK TO YER WOODEN SHOE FANTASY LAND
_____________________
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!
- Benjamin Franklin
If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die, I want to go where they went.
-Will Rogers
_____________________
you ever bean assualted (physically and verbally), been spit on, had feces slung at you?....ever worked on violent felons in a maximum security prison?....ever feared for your life while you were trying to help the victim of a violent crime? ever transported a murderer in your ambulance? ever dealt with a non compliant prisoner that didnt repsond to the nightstick and pepper spray?
well sister...i can answer yes to all of the above....and until you can walk in a police oficers shoes for even just a couple of hours....dont you dare have the nerve to sit there in your fantasy world and repeatedly ask me why an officer would need a dog when YOUR DAMN QUESTION HAS BEEN ANSWERED REPEATEDLY IN THIS FORUM....IM DONE WITH YOU...BACK TO YER WOODEN SHOE FANTASY LAND
You know we have some great anger management classes here in holland,maybe you can learn something from us over here in our wooden shoe fantasyland.
You know we have some great anger management classes here in holland,maybe you can learn something from us over here in our wooden shoe fantasyland.
i dont have anger management issues...im just sick and tired of me and my friends being verbally attacked (or sued) for trying to do our jobs by making this country a safer place to live...people that have no idea what its like on the streets try and dictate how we perform our jobs.. i never said the US was perfect...we have a boatload of sick twisted individuals raoming the streets...but unfortunately some people seem to beleive the thugs and criminals have as many rights as the rest of the law abiding citizens....they (criminals) gave up their rights the second they broke the law...period....
be sure to give everyone back in holland a big hug for me...
_____________________
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!
- Benjamin Franklin
If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die, I want to go where they went.
-Will Rogers
_____________________
but unfortunately some people seem to beleive the thugs and criminals have as many rights as the rest of the law abiding citizens....they (criminals) gave up their rights the second they broke the law...period....
so, or you tell lies when you say that you work for "some security", or your country doesn't give any legal background to people working for "some security", considered that it looks like that you ignore any law protecting jailed people. In the second case your country is far behind countries like Albania, etc, that instead give training to people working for the police...
Well, well, well... I wonder where this notion of violent/'heavy'/aggressive american police officers comes from??????
it comes from the fact that there are some bad cops out there...just like there are bad postal employees and angry mcdonalds employees...you just cant stop some people from acting like a moron...but if you had bothered to do more than skim this forum, you would have seen that the previous poster's quesiton had been aswered by myself and probable no less than 15 other people on this forum...but in typical brit fashion..you only skimmed the surface and chose to make a statement based on something you probably know very little about...other than what you see in the papers or on the news...just so you can take a poke at the "shitty americans"....
_____________________
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!
- Benjamin Franklin
If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die, I want to go where they went.
-Will Rogers
_____________________
i dont have anger management issues...im just sick and tired of me and my friends being verbally attacked (or sued) for trying to do our jobs by making this country a safer place to live...people that have no idea what its like on the streets try and dictate how we perform our jobs.. i never said the US was perfect...we have a boatload of sick twisted individuals raoming the streets...but unfortunately some people seem to beleive the thugs and criminals have as many rights as the rest of the law abiding citizens....they (criminals) gave up their rights the second they broke the law...period....
be sure to give everyone back in holland a big hug for me...
i did not verbally attack you.Also i think that police officers are having a really hard job and i have respect for that....what made me react to you was the fact that on your first post you really said that we in holland are nothing compared to your policeforce.On that we have a different oppinion,that is not a crime is it?I just do not see the need for police dogs in a jail that is all i was saying....and am stil saying....right before you started to yell at me.
But ok back to my fantasy land here;)
Stepping out of this discussion.
i dont have anger management issues...im just sick and tired of me and my friends being verbally attacked (or sued) for trying to do our jobs by making this country a safer place to live...people that have no idea what its like on the streets try and dictate how we perform our jobs.. i never said the US was perfect...we have a boatload of sick twisted individuals raoming the streets...but unfortunately some people seem to beleive the thugs and criminals have as many rights as the rest of the law abiding citizens....they (criminals) gave up their rights the second they broke the law...period....
be sure to give everyone back in holland a big hug for me...
When you think that a stressful job gives you the right to torture people, I think you are not suited to be a law enforcer. I have a great deal of respect for police officers though many have treated me bad, though I've seen some very disturbing things... but I've also seen a lot of good things, things most people don't know about, things that don't involve killers and murders, because really, how many killers does an average police officer encounter.
But I think when you see criminals as people without rights, you are not fit to be a police officer.
I also think you're being an ass, no one here says we should give killers cookies and milk and hug them...
so, or you tell lies when you say that you work for "some security", or your country doesn't give any legal background to people working for "some security", considered that it looks like that you ignore any law protecting jailed people. In the second case your country is far behind countries like Albania, etc, that instead give training to people working for the police...
so as i asked earlier...how do you get that prisoner out of the cell if he refuse to comply?....simple question...
remember:
nightstick = head injury, broken bones and possible brain damage
taser = possible cardiac arrythmias and head injury secondary to the fall
bean bag gun= internal bleeding and possible cardiac arrythmias secondary to chest wall hit
pepper spray= only minimally effective with non- compliant prisoners ( ie: still a danger to the officer)
so how do we get the prisoner out?
im sure am interested in your suggestions for improving our system.
well whats the answer...youve been screeming civil rights violation this whole forum, yet you seem to be mute when asked for suggestions regarding improvement......typical
_____________________
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!
- Benjamin Franklin
If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die, I want to go where they went.
-Will Rogers
_____________________
When you think that a stressful job gives you the right to torture people, I think you are not suited to be a law enforcer. I have a great deal of respect for police officers though many have treated me bad, though I've seen some very disturbing things... but I've also seen a lot of good things, things most people don't know about, things that don't involve killers and murders, because really, how many killers does an average police officer encounter.
But I think when you see criminals as people without rights, you are not fit to be a police officer.
I also think you're being an ass, no one here says we should give killers cookies and milk and hug them...
thats exactly why im not a cop...im a medic as stated earlier...but thats right ..you girls dont read further than what right in front of you...but i work side by side with the cops and i have been a medic on a swat team...i patch up the aftermath of all these sick criminal that yoiu say have all these rights....ever held a dead 2 year killed by a parent?
as far as im concerned...that parent(killer) has no rights...so once again you are correct... im not suited to be a law enforcement officer...cause that parent (killer) would be dead where they stand and never see the inside of a courtroom (only to be set free by some sick insanity defense or because some cop forgot to read them there rights while they waded through tthe pools of blood and brain matter on the floor)..sometime the truth is ugly and it stings like a son of a bitch...and until we stop trying to afford crimals and thugs the same rights as the law abiding little ole lady that works at the local grocery store...this country will continue to spiral out of control.
_____________________
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!
- Benjamin Franklin
If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die, I want to go where they went.
-Will Rogers
_____________________
thats exactly why im not a cop...im a medic as stated earlier...but thats right ..you girls dont read further than what right in front of you...but i work side by side with the cops and i have been a medic on a swat team...i patch up the aftermath of all these sick criminal that yoiu say have all these rights....ever held a dead 2 year killed by a parent?
as far as im concerned...that parent(killer) has no rights...so once again you are correct... im not suited to be a law enforcement officer...cause that parent (killer) would be dead where they stand and never see the inside of a courtroom (only to be set free by some sick insanity defense or because some cop forgot to read them there rights while they waded through tthe pools of blood and brain matter on the floor)..sometime the truth is ugly and it stings like a son of a bitch...and until we stop trying to afford crimals and thugs the same rights as the law abiding little ole lady that works at the local grocery store...this country will continue to spiral out of control.
take a look at the autistic beaning thread, they all want the coach who ordered the beaning to "rot in prison", "be put to death", and get raped behind bars. Once you put specific crimes to a specific person, that uber-liberal bleeding heart suddenly disappears. I'm with you, I guarantee that anyone put in the position of dealing with violent criminals would use anything at their disposal to fulfill the responsibilities of their job description while ensuring their own safety. Once they walk in those shoes and realize that Billy Jo Branson is cell 33 was convicted 3 times for assault with a deadly weapon, won't listen to their orders as far as coming out of their cell, I'd guess that they'd believe a highly trained dog would sound like a damn good idea. Those prisoners consider those guards their enemies, much as they thought of their victims as their enemies. They've shown in the past what they will do to those they do not like, trust, or respect. A guard MUST carry that same mentality in order to sustain order.
"Worse than traitors in arms are the men who pretend loyalty to the flag, feast and fatten on the misfortunes of the nation while patriotic blood is crimsoning the plains." -- Abraham Lincoln
Comments
And let's not forget that I phrased that implication in the form of a question, thus giving you the benefit of the doubt - albeit in a rather presumptuous way.
The act of a person being "silenced" took place in Puck's mind, and Puck's mind only. And I'm sure that scenario played out in his mind for reasons we might not ever comprehend.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
www.amnesty.org.uk
When i was talking about "recognised methods" i meant methods in respect of Human Rights law.
EDIT: missing "s" after "government"
www.amnesty.org.uk
If you break the law and are running from the cops, there is a good chance an "attack dog" may be used to bring you down for arrest, how is this different?
Its not being used on the prisoners that are doing what they are instructed to do, only the ones that steadfastly refuse to follow orders.... and the danger is awfully great to a guard to go into a room, alone, with a criminal- armed with only a night stick, for every prisoner that doesnt feel like waking up, or with a grudge.
As far as i know, a taser or mace are not used in the general popluation of the cell area- for the same reason guns arent used.
A dog may be the perfect weapon to use in a jail for this type of thing.... its more intimidating than a taser, beating, or mace- so far more effective in discouraging bad behavior... but is also impossible to be stolen and used by the inmates against the guards.
f'n eh. Way to carry the torch on this one.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
http://www.villagevoice.com/blogs/bushbeat/archive/images/iraq-torture-dogs-thumb.jpg
...do you have the minimum idea of the psycological traumas that this kind of torture gives? Have you ever read/heard any witnesses from tortured people? I guess not...
I think that uoi have to decide: or prisons are made to avoid that certain people should committ crimes again, or are made for your revenge against them.
If you think that they are made for revenge, then don't come and say that the usa attacked iraq to bring there Human Rights, because it seems to me that the level of Human Rights violations in the US jails are the same that were in Iraq in the Saddam period
www.amnesty.org.uk
here in america the police dogs undergo a much more rigorous training regimin than holland evidentally (at a cost of at least 20k per dog to complete)...after working 22 years in fire and ems and i have several friends that are k9 officers and i have asked the similar question...." will the dog ever do as it pleases and not obey?" overwhelmingly the answere is "no"
i know of no such random dog attacks on club goers here in the states nor have i seen anything but minor injuries secondary to k9 officer bites.....these dogs inflict far less physical injury than would a nightstick, beanbag gun or taser. Dog bites actually carry less risk of infection than either a cat scratch or a human bite..plus these dogs do not "maul"...they simply bite and do not release until ordered...inflicting only minor puncture wounds accompianed by minor swelling and bruising (I have treated multiple patients bitten by k9 officers)...these are not sick pitbulls mauling some 12 year olds face...these are highly trained animals/ police officers....like i said earlier, you are comparing apples and oranges comparing k9 officers in holland vs american k9 officers...the us has one of the most sofisticated public safety systems (police, fire, ems) in the world...but it will only be fully effective if we are allowed to protect ourselves and perform our duties as trained without undue outside influence...
as far as firing the officers in question for the earlier noted offenses...im sure they were only following departmental policy, therefore should not hold any liability.
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!
- Benjamin Franklin
If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die, I want to go where they went.
-Will Rogers
_____________________
Also the k9 trainers here in holland might be a litlle more reallistic and not so full of their own now how and that might able them to say that even if they train dogs really wel it wil always have a risk.
what is the problem here girls....THESE ARE PRISONERS....THEY ARE NOT OBEYING ORDERS....WHAT THE HELL SHOULD THE GAURDS DO!
maybe they should go in,, hug the prisoner, tell him everything in life is rosey cause amesty international has got his back...give him some warm milk and cookies and tell its ok, we didnt want you to really come out of the cell anyway....AND AS THE GUARD TURNS TO LEAVE HE GETS A SHANK IN THE BACK LEAVING HIS 3 CHILDREN FATHERLESS....
PLEASE GET YOU HEADS OUT OF YER ASSES FOR A CHANGE...
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!
- Benjamin Franklin
If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die, I want to go where they went.
-Will Rogers
_____________________
so i guess thats why the US public safety system sees thousands of visitors from around the globe each year that come here to learn new and better ways to provide public safety....we by no means are perfect...BUT WE ARE THE BEST!
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!
- Benjamin Franklin
If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die, I want to go where they went.
-Will Rogers
_____________________
yes you are correct ....there is always a risk when handling animals...but the more training the animal undergoes...the more the risk is minmized....the dogs that bit the club goers that you referred to earlier, obvioulsy were not trained to handle large crowd situations and should have never been on the street...in the US dogs would never be placed in an "off leash" situation in a large crowd like that to start with...the large crowd would be controlled by officers on horseback or on foot in riot gear...the handlers of the dogs you refer to are the ones to blame if the dogs were truly "off leash" in a large crowd.
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!
- Benjamin Franklin
If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die, I want to go where they went.
-Will Rogers
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im sorry...didnt realize you couldnt come up with this on your own....the dogs are utilized for officer (human) safety....didnt realize it was that tough of as scenario to understand...
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!
- Benjamin Franklin
If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die, I want to go where they went.
-Will Rogers
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indeed, 2% of the population of the US is in prison. Beautiful safe country...
www.amnesty.org.uk
you ever bean assualted (physically and verbally), been spit on, had feces slung at you?....ever worked on violent felons in a maximum security prison?....ever feared for your life while you were trying to help the victim of a violent crime? ever transported a murderer in your ambulance? ever dealt with a non compliant prisoner that didnt repsond to the nightstick and pepper spray?
well sister...i can answer yes to all of the above....and until you can walk in a police oficers shoes for even just a couple of hours....dont you dare have the nerve to sit there in your fantasy world and repeatedly ask me why an officer would need a dog when YOUR DAMN QUESTION HAS BEEN ANSWERED REPEATEDLY IN THIS FORUM....IM DONE WITH YOU...BACK TO YER WOODEN SHOE FANTASY LAND
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!
- Benjamin Franklin
If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die, I want to go where they went.
-Will Rogers
_____________________
this is why i will always have a job in public safety....YOU CAN'T CURE STOOOOPID.
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!
- Benjamin Franklin
If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die, I want to go where they went.
-Will Rogers
_____________________
You know we have some great anger management classes here in holland,maybe you can learn something from us over here in our wooden shoe fantasyland.
Well, well, well... I wonder where this notion of violent/'heavy'/aggressive american police officers comes from??????
i dont have anger management issues...im just sick and tired of me and my friends being verbally attacked (or sued) for trying to do our jobs by making this country a safer place to live...people that have no idea what its like on the streets try and dictate how we perform our jobs.. i never said the US was perfect...we have a boatload of sick twisted individuals raoming the streets...but unfortunately some people seem to beleive the thugs and criminals have as many rights as the rest of the law abiding citizens....they (criminals) gave up their rights the second they broke the law...period....
be sure to give everyone back in holland a big hug for me...
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!
- Benjamin Franklin
If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die, I want to go where they went.
-Will Rogers
_____________________
www.amnesty.org.uk
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!
- Benjamin Franklin
If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die, I want to go where they went.
-Will Rogers
_____________________
But ok back to my fantasy land here;)
Stepping out of this discussion.
When you think that a stressful job gives you the right to torture people, I think you are not suited to be a law enforcer. I have a great deal of respect for police officers though many have treated me bad, though I've seen some very disturbing things... but I've also seen a lot of good things, things most people don't know about, things that don't involve killers and murders, because really, how many killers does an average police officer encounter.
But I think when you see criminals as people without rights, you are not fit to be a police officer.
I also think you're being an ass, no one here says we should give killers cookies and milk and hug them...
naděje umírá poslední
so as i asked earlier...how do you get that prisoner out of the cell if he refuse to comply?....simple question...
remember:
nightstick = head injury, broken bones and possible brain damage
taser = possible cardiac arrythmias and head injury secondary to the fall
bean bag gun= internal bleeding and possible cardiac arrythmias secondary to chest wall hit
pepper spray= only minimally effective with non- compliant prisoners ( ie: still a danger to the officer)
so how do we get the prisoner out?
im sure am interested in your suggestions for improving our system.
well whats the answer...youve been screeming civil rights violation this whole forum, yet you seem to be mute when asked for suggestions regarding improvement......typical
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!
- Benjamin Franklin
If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die, I want to go where they went.
-Will Rogers
_____________________
as far as im concerned...that parent(killer) has no rights...so once again you are correct... im not suited to be a law enforcement officer...cause that parent (killer) would be dead where they stand and never see the inside of a courtroom (only to be set free by some sick insanity defense or because some cop forgot to read them there rights while they waded through tthe pools of blood and brain matter on the floor)..sometime the truth is ugly and it stings like a son of a bitch...and until we stop trying to afford crimals and thugs the same rights as the law abiding little ole lady that works at the local grocery store...this country will continue to spiral out of control.
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!
- Benjamin Franklin
If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die, I want to go where they went.
-Will Rogers
_____________________
take a look at the autistic beaning thread, they all want the coach who ordered the beaning to "rot in prison", "be put to death", and get raped behind bars. Once you put specific crimes to a specific person, that uber-liberal bleeding heart suddenly disappears. I'm with you, I guarantee that anyone put in the position of dealing with violent criminals would use anything at their disposal to fulfill the responsibilities of their job description while ensuring their own safety. Once they walk in those shoes and realize that Billy Jo Branson is cell 33 was convicted 3 times for assault with a deadly weapon, won't listen to their orders as far as coming out of their cell, I'd guess that they'd believe a highly trained dog would sound like a damn good idea. Those prisoners consider those guards their enemies, much as they thought of their victims as their enemies. They've shown in the past what they will do to those they do not like, trust, or respect. A guard MUST carry that same mentality in order to sustain order.