World Day Against the Death Penalty

know1

sponger wrote:

I see what you're saying. You're saying that the death penalty gives death a bad name. Makes sense.

Kind of. But more than that I'm saying that it's not really a punishment if it's going to happen anyway.

sponger

know1 wrote:

Kind of. But more than that I'm saying that it's not really a punishment if it's going to happen anyway.

Then what's the point of living if dying is not something we are trying to avoid?

know1

sponger wrote:

Then what's the point of living if dying is not something we are trying to avoid?

Good question. But depending upon your beliefs, death can be viewed as a blessing or a reward. But even if you don't believe that, why not come to peace with something that's going to happen anyway.....at any moment?

And I know it's semantics, but death CAN'T be avoided no matter how hard any of us try.

pickupyourwill

know1 wrote:

Kind of. But more than that I'm saying that it's not really a punishment if it's going to happen anyway.

I agree with you on this. For some prisoners, its probably a kind of relief to know that their life of subtle hell in prison will soon be ended. They need to suffer till old age, like the rest of us.

The only downfall of them having a life sentence, then, is the tax dollars that it costs all of us. But if they are made to be involved with many community service projects, then that kind of makes up for the money--right? I think, for me, I would still like to know that all their community service has helped them spiritually--and perhaps helped them to see the error in their ways. Maybe it should be mandatory that they right letters every year expressing their heartfelt regret and sympathy to the victims' families and us law-abiding citizens.---it could also serve as a letter of thanks, so that they show some gratitude towards where some our tax dollars are being spent. Although, some of them may just fake any sentiment in the letter, maybe the repetition of writing them so often may actually sink in?

I've read about prisoners planting trees, or taking care of dogs that eventually are given to the blind disabled. I like knowing that some of these programs are changing the prisoners' lives.

However, many of these inmates are spoiled with all the services that the prisons offer.---cable tv, weight gyms, etc. In many cases, its like they have a free ride.

I do agree that in many cases, criminals go in and come out better criminals. It doesn't make sense to me that if you're trying to rehabilitate a criminal mind, then why surround him with a bunch of other delinquents whose bad influences will only rub off. I understand that the other inmates become their friends and confidants because they are all going through the prison experience together, but I don't think they should all be each others' sole source of social interaction--(if you're trying to rehabilitate them that is). --just my two cents anyway.

enharmonic

The death penalty is essential.

Puck78

pickupyourwill wrote:

The only downfall of them having a life sentence, then, is the tax dollars that it costs all of us.

this is a wrong common belief. In reality a death execution is much more expensive than life imprisonment. You can easily find reports on this in the internet.

Boom The Cat

There's something to be said for the Death Penalty, I'm somewhat for it but I beleive its use should be cut down, it has been abused too much.

enharmonic

I would prefer controlled medical experiments to the death penalty. I believe that if instead of being sentensed to death, you were sentenced to a life of controlled medical experiments, one would be less inclined to commit a crime.

Boom The Cat

Hmm, but what about those wrongly accused? Thats my main beef against those kinda things, not human rights.

sponger

The problem with punishment in general is that most criminals aren't capable of thinking that far ahead. They're not capable of making that connection between action and consequence. So, regardless of what that punishment may be, the average criminal will continue to commit crimes because, in his or her own mind, he or she will never be caught.

Criminals, on average, have lower maturity levels in comparison to people their own age. This is a widely-accepted and statistically supported fact of criminal psychology.

Let's be totally honest here. Most of us, if given the opportunity, would walk into a bank and rob it for all its worth if we were 100% certain that we could get away with it. But, we know it's illegal to take money from banks when that money does not belong to us. We know that the likelihood of being caught and jailed makes the risk not worth the take.

And that's why we don't rob banks for the most part. There's a few of us (about 1%-3%) who truly believe in our hearts that stealing is immoral, and these people are the exception.

But the remaining majority who don't think it's wrong, but are just aware of the consequences and are able to make that connection, refrain from doing it for that reason.

So, it's not a matter of how scary the consequences are. It's a matter of whether or not we're able to remain congnisant of the risks vs. reward. "Risk vs. Reward", by the way, is a mental process that develops more and more as we get older and more mature.

Puck78

enharmonic wrote:

I would prefer controlled medical experiments to the death penalty. I believe that if instead of being sentensed to death, you were sentenced to a life of controlled medical experiments, one would be less inclined to commit a crime.

you're full of sensibility, isn't it?

Ahnimus

Boom The Cat wrote:

Hmm, but what about those wrongly accused? Thats my main beef against those kinda things, not human rights.

There is also minors that are convicted of crimes sentanced to death row and executed after their eighteenth birthday.

By the way, nice sig.

Byrnzie

Boom The Cat wrote:

There's something to be said for the Death Penalty, I'm somewhat for it but I beleive its use should be cut down, it has been abused too much.

O.k, so I've heard a lot of people here saying that they're for the death penalty. Can anyone please explain what positive value the death penalty has?

Ahnimus

wikipedia wrote:

The Prefrontal Cortex
The prefrontal cortex is the anterior part of the frontal lobes of the brain, lying in front of the motor and premotor areas. Cytoarchitectonically, it is defined by the presence of an internal granular layer IV (in contrast to the agranular premotor cortex). Divided into the lateral, orbitofrontal and medial prefrontal areas, this brain region has been implicated in planning complex cognitive behaviors, personality expression and moderating correct social behavior.

The basic activity of this brain region is considered to be orchestration of thoughts and actions in accordance with internal goals.

The most typical neurologic term for functions carried out by the pre-frontal cortex area is Executive Function. Executive Function relates to abilities to differentiate among conflicting thoughts, determine good and bad, better and best, same and different, future consequences of current activities, working toward a defined goal, prediction of outcomes, expectation based on actions, and social "control" (the ability to suppress urges that, if not suppressed, could lead to socially unacceptable or illegal outcomes).

Many authors have indicated an integral link between a person's personality and the functions of the prefrontal cortex.

Brain linkages
The prefrontal cortex has a high number of interconnections both between the brainstem's Reticular Activating System (RAS) and the limbic system. As a result, the centers in the prefrontal cortex depend significantly on high levels of alertness, and emotional linkages with deeper brain structures related to control of pleasure, pain, anger, rage, panic, aggression (fight-flight-freeze responses), and basic sexual responses.

Studies
The classic case of earlier studies of prefrontal cortex function involved a railroad supervisor of construction - one Phineas Gage - who in 1848, despite a metal rod piercing his left cheek and exiting the top of his head, survived the incident and healed. After the event he had normal memory and abilities to walk and talk, but because of the prefrontal injury could no longer behave correctly, often getting into fights or acting shockingly. The remainder of his life was a tragedy of knowing what was right and wrong, but never choosing the right and instead always picking what sounded pleasurable and easy.

Subsequent studies on patients with prefrontal injuries have shown that, in testing, they verbalize what the most appropriate social responses would be under certain circumstances, yet when actually performing, they will still pursue behavior which is aimed at immediate gratification even if they know the longer term results will be self-defeating.

This data indicates that not only are skills of comparison and understanding of eventual outcomes harbored in the prefrontal cortex, but that the prefrontal cortex (when functioning correctly) controls the mental option to delay immediate gratification for a better or more rewarding longer term gratification result. This ability to wait for a reward is one of the key pieces that defines optimal executive function of the human brain.

In 2005, University of Toronto researchers traced the origin of fear memories to the prefrontal cortex.[1]


Other disorders
In the last few decades, brain imaging systems have been used to determine brain region volumes and nerve linkages. Several studies have indicated that reduced volume and interconnections of the frontal lobes with other brain regions is common in those with depression, people subjected to repeated stressors, suicide victims, incarcerated criminals, sociopaths, drug addicts, and many schizophrenics. It is felt that at least some of the human abilities to feel guilt or remorse, and to interpret reality, lie in the prefrontal cortex.

Execution is only justified by the belief in Evil or the belief that everyone is in full control of their actions. There are varying levels of disorders, some not as apparent as others. Victims would likely take offense to being told they have a disorder.

There are just far too many factors to hold one individual responsible for their actions. Our society, their genetics, experience, environment, politics, etc.. All of this stuff plays a role in the decisions people make. We all have to take responsibility for each other's actions and constructively work towards a better life for everyone. Not just execute people.

chopitdown

Byrnzie wrote:

O.k, so I've heard a lot of people here saying that they're for the death penalty. Can anyone please explain what positive value the death penalty has?

A humans life is precious. If someone goes and destroys a human life (i.e. murder) the only punishment that can validate the preciousness of the life taken by murder is punishment by death. There are other options but that's where I choose to take my stance. That's the blunt answer b/c I don't feel like typing everything out.

enharmonic

Boom The Cat wrote:

Hmm, but what about those wrongly accused? Thats my main beef against those kinda things, not human rights.

There will always be people who are wrongly accused. Law is not perfect, and neither is punishment. When you look at people who have been wrongly accused and convicted of a crime, they usually aren't random people who had nothing to do with the events or events of a similar nature. Not trying to justify it...just saying that a run of bad luck won't land you or I on death row..unless youhave some kind of seedy history. No one is going to come lock me up for the murders that took place in Baltimore last night...ya know?

Am I alone in thinking that if you're an unrepentant criminal sentenced to die, the death penalty is no big deal? However, if instead of being sentenced to death, you were sentenced to test the AIDS vaccine, or cures for cancer...or organ transplant procedures, or even amputee procedures...I personally believe that you'd be much more frightened. Death is the easy way out. Let the state/gov't turn you into a human lab rat, and I bet that people stop acting crazy.

I'd rather be sentenced to death then given AIDS/Cancer/etc, and used as a test subject.

On the bright side, think of the benefits that could be obtained for the greater majority of law abiding people. These unrepentant criminals could pay their debt to society by virtue of the fact that new medical treatements could be tested on humans instead of monkeys, rabbits, etc...animals that have done nothing to cause harm to a society. Perform tests on the animals that HAVE caused harm to society.

Puck78

enharmonic wrote:

There will always be people who are wrongly accused. Law is not perfect, and neither is punishment. When you look at people who have been wrongly accused and convicted of a crime, they usually aren't random people who had nothing to do with the events or events of a similar nature. Not trying to justify it...just saying that a run of bad luck won't land you or I on death row..unless youhave some kind of seedy history. No one is going to come lock me up for the murders that took place in Baltimore last night...ya know?

Am I alone in thinking that if you're an unrepentant criminal sentenced to die, the death penalty is no big deal? However, if instead of being sentenced to death, you were sentenced to test the AIDS vaccine, or cures for cancer...or organ transplant procedures, or even amputee procedures...I personally believe that you'd be much more frightened. Death is the easy way out. Let the state/gov't turn you into a human lab rat, and I bet that people stop acting crazy.

I'd rather be sentenced to death then given AIDS/Cancer/etc, and used as a test subject.

On the bright side, think of the benefits that could be obtained for the greater majority of law abiding people. These unrepentant criminals could pay their debt to society by virtue of the fact that new medical treatements could be tested on humans instead of monkeys, rabbits, etc...animals that have done nothing to cause harm to a society. Perform tests on the animals that HAVE caused harm to society.

when you first wrote about medical testing i hoped you were joking (even if they would have been jokes of very very very poor taste...).
Congratulation, you resumed an idea applied during the nazism. The idea that a certain category of people, even if guilty of something, is subjectable of your superiority and your will to do to them whatever you want. Congratulations.
I hope that the mods will delete your posts.

chopitdown

enharmonic wrote:

There will always be people who are wrongly accused. Law is not perfect, and neither is punishment. When you look at people who have been wrongly accused and convicted of a crime, they usually aren't random people who had nothing to do with the events or events of a similar nature. Not trying to justify it...just saying that a run of bad luck won't land you or I on death row..unless youhave some kind of seedy history. No one is going to come lock me up for the murders that took place in Baltimore last night...ya know?

Am I alone in thinking that if you're an unrepentant criminal sentenced to die, the death penalty is no big deal? However, if instead of being sentenced to death, you were sentenced to test the AIDS vaccine, or cures for cancer...or organ transplant procedures, or even amputee procedures...I personally believe that you'd be much more frightened. Death is the easy way out. Let the state/gov't turn you into a human lab rat, and I bet that people stop acting crazy.

I'd rather be sentenced to death then given AIDS/Cancer/etc, and used as a test subject.

On the bright side, think of the benefits that could be obtained for the greater majority of law abiding people. These unrepentant criminals could pay their debt to society by virtue of the fact that new medical treatements could be tested on humans instead of monkeys, rabbits, etc...animals that have done nothing to cause harm to a society. Perform tests on the animals that HAVE caused harm to society.

I have to disagree. While there are certainly advantages to performing the tests in the manner of which you speak, It's a HUGE ethical violation and we don't need to go back to nazi germany to help advance science. As a matter of fact prisoners fall under an at risk population, along with kids and the mentally incompetant for the research approval process.

enharmonic

Puck78 wrote:

when you first wrote about medical testing i hoped you were joking (even if they would have been jokes of very very very poor taste...).
Congratulation, you resumed an idea applied during the nazism. The idea that a certain category of people, even if guilty of something, is subjectable of your superiority and your will to do to them whatever you want. Congratulations.
I hope that the mods will delete your posts.

I see. You must be one of those people who believe that a murderer is entitled to more rights than the person he/she murdered. Not to mention that the Nazi's performed experiments on INNOCENT people, which is totally different than what I am suggesting...but you understood that, right?

At least my solution gives them a chance at survival, while providing great benefit to the masses who may or may not be superior...but at least don't commit a capital offense.

Call it whatever you want. Your solution is not a solution, so just keep talking about the rights of convicted felons while innocent people bury their dead. I'm sure they appreciate your willingness to give murderers a break.

Puck78

enharmonic wrote:

I see. You must be one of those people who believe that a murderer is entitled to more rights than the person he/she murdered.

who said that they should have more rights? I didn't say that they should be set free. Just that fair justice should apply. And nazi's way to make science progress doesn't appeal to justice but just to extreme stupidity.