waterboaring

Puck78Puck78 Posts: 737
edited April 2008 in A Moving Train
http://unsubscribe-me.org/films/blipesque-sof-480.swf

You are tied to a board, your ankles, wrists, chest and head strapped firmly down. Water pours onto your face, flows up your nose, into your mouth, down your throat and fills your lungs and stomach. You gag, choke and struggle for breath.

This is waterboarding.

The CIA uses waterboarding to try to extract information from detainees in the ‘war on terror’. President George Bush calls it a ‘necessary tool’. In reality it is torture.

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  • lazymoon13lazymoon13 Posts: 838
    ban it. we should never stoop as low as our enemy. its a disgrace
  • know1know1 Posts: 6,794
    lazymoon13 wrote:
    ban it. we should never stoop as low as our enemy. its a disgrace


    I thought our "enemy" was cutting off the heads of its prisoners with dull saws. I'm not defending anything....just saying...
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • lazymoon13lazymoon13 Posts: 838
    know1 wrote:
    I thought our "enemy" was cutting off the heads of its prisoners with dull saws. I'm not defending anything....just saying...

    thats true. waterboarding is an ice cream sunday to them. but both fall under "torture" so can't do it.
  • mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
    The fact that our government would stoop to using these tactics is extremely disturbing to me. I understand that we are dealing with individuals who would cut my head off and post it on YouTube, but we are not like those people. We are a civilized nation with laws, morals, ethics and irregardless of who our enemy is we should never lower ourselves to level at which they operate.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • know1know1 Posts: 6,794
    lazymoon13 wrote:
    thats true. waterboarding is an ice cream sunday to them. but both fall under "torture" so can't do it.

    Do you have a link to the agreed upon list of what is torture and what is not?

    Again, I'm not defending anything, but I do think there's more of a grey area here than meets the eye.

    For example, if someone had a genuine phobia of caterpillars, it might be torture to tie them down and let them crawl all over them.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • lazymoon13lazymoon13 Posts: 838
    know1 wrote:
    Do you have a link to the agreed upon list of what is torture and what is not?

    Again, I'm not defending anything, but I do think there's more of a grey area here than meets the eye.

    For example, if someone had a genuine phobia of caterpillars, it might be torture to tie them down and let them crawl all over them.

    haha I hear ya man. no I don't have a link. I have a few personal feelings about waterboarding being torture or not, but seems as if the general consensus is that it is. as soon as it goes anywhere near that category, we shouldn't do it. for obvious reasons that I'm sure you agree with.
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    Good guys don't torture. Don't we see ourselves as the Good Guys? Torture is something we think of when we think of Nazis and Soviets and terrorists.
    In order to defeat... do not become them. If you do... you have failed.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • Kel VarnsenKel Varnsen Posts: 1,952
    mammasan wrote:
    The fact that our government would stoop to using these tactics is extremely disturbing to me. I understand that we are dealing with individuals who would cut my head off and post it on YouTube, but we are not like those people. We are a civilized nation with laws, morals, ethics and irregardless of who our enemy is we should never lower ourselves to level at which they operate.


    Not to mention how well does this kind of thing really work? I mean yes if you waterboard a terrorist he is probably going to admit to being a terrorist if it makes you stop, but at the same time if I was waterboarded I would admit to being a terrorist. If that's how it works how reliable is your information going to be?
  • mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
    Not to mention how well does this kind of thing really work. I mean yes if you waterboard a terrorist he is probably going to admit to being a terrorist if it makes you stop, but at the same time if I was waterboarded I would admit to being a terrorist.

    True. A lot of experts state that information ontained through torture is for the most part unreliable.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    mammasan wrote:
    True. A lot of experts state that information ontained through torture is for the most part unreliable.
    ...
    I saw a 'My Name is Earl' episode where he crossed paths with the local Homeland Security. They thought Earl was a terrorist so they interrogated him by putting this tube up his butt and asking him if he was a terrorist. They would keep putting it in, further and further until he admitted to being a terrorist.
    As soon as they put it in, Earl screamed, "I'm a terrorist! I'm a terrorist! Take it out! Take it out!"
    ...
    I know it's comedy... but, it's kinda true.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • Kel VarnsenKel Varnsen Posts: 1,952
    Cosmo wrote:
    ...
    I saw a 'My Name is Earl' episode where he crossed paths with the local Homeland Security. They thought Earl was a terrorist so they interrogated him by putting this tube up his butt and asking him if he was a terrorist. They would keep putting it in, further and further until he admitted to being a terrorist.
    As soon as they put it in, Earl screamed, "I'm a terrorist! I'm a terrorist! Take it out! Take it out!"
    ...
    I know it's comedy... but, it's kinda true.

    I remember that, it was pretty funny, plus didn't he admit to shooting Lincoln? But your right it is probably a true, plus if pretty much anyone who gets waterboarded is going to admit to being a terrorist, how do they know the guy they have is an actual terrorist, and not just some guy who they picked up who was walking along the streets of Kabul minding his own business?
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    I remember that, it was pretty funny, plus didn't he admit to shooting Lincoln? But your right it is probably a true, plus if pretty much anyone who gets waterboarded is going to admit to being a terrorist, how do they know the guy they have is an actual terrorist, and not just some guy who they picked up who was walking along the streets of Kabul minding his own business?
    ...
    I'd admit to being Usama bin Laden to get them to stop torturing me.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • Cosmo wrote:
    Good guys don't torture. Don't we see ourselves as the Good Guys? Torture is something we think of when we think of Nazis and Soviets and terrorists.
    In order to defeat... do not become them. If you do... you have failed.

    I think the reasoning is it's ok if you don't do it to your "own" people ;)
  • mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
    Cosmo wrote:
    ...
    I saw a 'My Name is Earl' episode where he crossed paths with the local Homeland Security. They thought Earl was a terrorist so they interrogated him by putting this tube up his butt and asking him if he was a terrorist. They would keep putting it in, further and further until he admitted to being a terrorist.
    As soon as they put it in, Earl screamed, "I'm a terrorist! I'm a terrorist! Take it out! Take it out!"
    ...
    I know it's comedy... but, it's kinda true.

    If someone was shoving a tube up my ass I would claim to be who ever the fuck they wanted me to be.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • mammasan wrote:
    If someone was shoving a tube up my ass I would claim to be who ever the fuck they wanted me to be.

    it's disturbingly similar to throwing an accused witch into a lake to see if she'll float.
  • Cosmo wrote:
    Good guys don't torture. Don't we see ourselves as the Good Guys? Torture is something we think of when we think of Nazis and Soviets and terrorists.
    In order to defeat... do not become them. If you do... you have failed.


    Sums up my thoughts on the matter, nicely.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • hailhailkchailhailkc Posts: 582
    mammasan wrote:
    If someone was shoving a tube up my ass I would claim to be who ever the fuck they wanted me to be.

    Let's try to keep your bedroom antics out of the thread...mmmkay?! ;)
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  • TowsertunesTowsertunes Posts: 187
    If a terrorist has information about something that is going to happen which in turn would kill hundreds if not thousands of innocent American lives,wouldn't you want to try and extract that information.
    I think waterboarding is a acceptable means to get that information.
    "they don't give a shit Keith Moon is dead,
    is that exactly what I thought I read?"


    How I choose to feel,...Is how I am.
  • If a terrorist has information about something that is going to happen which in turn would kill hundreds if not thousands of innocent American lives,wouldn't you want to try and extract that information.
    I think waterboarding is a acceptable means to get that information.

    How do you know he's not saying whatever you might want to hear to have the torture stopped?
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • TowsertunesTowsertunes Posts: 187
    How do you know he's not saying whatever you might want to hear to have the torture stopped?

    Apparently waterboarding is such a devastating psychological
    trick that it really makes people feel as if they are drowning.
    Human instinct kicks in and voila,they spill the beans.
    this is why it is the preferred technique.
    "they don't give a shit Keith Moon is dead,
    is that exactly what I thought I read?"


    How I choose to feel,...Is how I am.
  • Apparently waterboarding is such a devastating psychological
    trick that it really makes people feel as if they are drowning.
    Human instinct kicks in and voila,they spill the beans.
    this is why it is the preferred technique.


    but how do you know the 'beans' are authentic and not just to get you to stop making them feel as if they are drowning?
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • KannKann Posts: 1,146
    but how do you know the 'beans' are authentic and not just to get you to stop making them feel as if they are drowning?

    That, and how do you know this guy knows stuff? Maybe he doesn't know anything, and you just made him feel as he was drowning for nothing.
  • mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
    hailhailkc wrote:
    Let's try to keep your bedroom antics out of the thread...mmmkay?! ;)

    I prefer hamsters.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • TowsertunesTowsertunes Posts: 187
    Kann wrote:
    That, and how do you know this guy knows stuff? Maybe he doesn't know anything, and you just made him feel as he was drowning for nothing.

    I would think this form of interrogation will not be used on just anyone.
    The person subjected to this form of treatment will be someone of importance.
    This technique is rarely used.
    But keep on making up excuses not to use it if it makes you feel better.
    As long as you realize that it could be a landmark in your city or a family members city that is targeted.
    "they don't give a shit Keith Moon is dead,
    is that exactly what I thought I read?"


    How I choose to feel,...Is how I am.
  • sweet adelinesweet adeline Posts: 2,191
    .......

    edit: i thought this was a thread about wakeboarding.
  • PaperPlatesPaperPlates Posts: 1,745
    I don't thinkf or one second that when they "torture" a suspect, it is simply for the goal of getting them to admit to being a terrorist. "Cmon, admit you're a terrorist!" SPLASH! "Admit it!" SPLASH!! Not how it works!!!

    I know it sounds very "24"ish, (tho the conspiracy xfile freaks shouldnt argue the possibilties) but if they had to waterboard someone they knew or strongly suspected of having INFORMATION they could use to stop, oh idk, a dirty bomb in NYC, or a train bombing in spain, or a bus in London,to get that info, and they prevented a large loss of life, id pretty much be okay with how they got that info.

    But then again Im a heartless warmongering republican. ;)
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  • melodiousmelodious Posts: 1,719
    Puck78 wrote:
    http://unsubscribe-me.org/films/blipesque-sof-480.swf

    You are tied to a board, your ankles, wrists, chest and head strapped firmly down. Water pours onto your face, flows up your nose, into your mouth, down your throat and fills your lungs and stomach. You gag, choke and struggle for breath.

    This is waterboarding.

    The CIA uses waterboarding to try to extract information from detainees in the ‘war on terror’. President George Bush calls it a ‘necessary tool’. In reality it is torture.

    Act now - visit http://www.unsubscribe-me.org
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  • CollinCollin Posts: 4,931
    I don't thinkf or one second that when they "torture" a suspect, it is simply for the goal of getting them to admit to being a terrorist. "Cmon, admit you're a terrorist!" SPLASH! "Admit it!" SPLASH!! Not how it works!!!

    I know it sounds very "24"ish, (tho the conspiracy xfile freaks shouldnt argue the possibilties) but if they had to waterboard someone they knew or strongly suspected of having INFORMATION they could use to stop, oh idk, a dirty bomb in NYC, or a train bombing in spain, or a bus in London,to get that info, and they prevented a large loss of life, id pretty much be okay with how they got that info.

    But then again Im a heartless warmongering republican. ;)

    I just hope you're never mistaken for a terrorist.

    Anyway, I'm against it. Even if the terrorist is a real meanie!
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  • KannKann Posts: 1,146
    But keep on making up excuses not to use it if it makes you feel better.
    I think we disagree a little too much on life for me to post a consistent counter argument.

    edit :
    I know it sounds very "24"ish, (tho the conspiracy xfile freaks shouldnt argue the possibilties) but if they had to waterboard someone they knew or strongly suspected of having INFORMATION they could use to stop, oh idk, a dirty bomb in NYC, or a train bombing in spain, or a bus in London,to get that info, and they prevented a large loss of life, id pretty much be okay with how they got that info.

    But then again Im a heartless warmongering republican.
    What if you discovered after the torture session that your man acutally had none of the necessary information? Wouldn't you feel a little bad, even as a heartless warmongering republican?
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