waterboaring

Puck78
Puck78 Posts: 737
edited April 2008 in A Moving Train
http://unsubscribe-me.org/films/blipesque-sof-480.swf

You are tied to a board, your ankles, wrists, chest and head strapped firmly down. Water pours onto your face, flows up your nose, into your mouth, down your throat and fills your lungs and stomach. You gag, choke and struggle for breath.

This is waterboarding.

The CIA uses waterboarding to try to extract information from detainees in the ‘war on terror’. President George Bush calls it a ‘necessary tool’. In reality it is torture.

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Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • lazymoon13
    lazymoon13 Posts: 838
    ban it. we should never stoop as low as our enemy. its a disgrace
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/apr/19/guantanamo.usa
  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    lazymoon13 wrote:
    ban it. we should never stoop as low as our enemy. its a disgrace


    I thought our "enemy" was cutting off the heads of its prisoners with dull saws. I'm not defending anything....just saying...
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • lazymoon13
    lazymoon13 Posts: 838
    know1 wrote:
    I thought our "enemy" was cutting off the heads of its prisoners with dull saws. I'm not defending anything....just saying...

    thats true. waterboarding is an ice cream sunday to them. but both fall under "torture" so can't do it.
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    The fact that our government would stoop to using these tactics is extremely disturbing to me. I understand that we are dealing with individuals who would cut my head off and post it on YouTube, but we are not like those people. We are a civilized nation with laws, morals, ethics and irregardless of who our enemy is we should never lower ourselves to level at which they operate.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    lazymoon13 wrote:
    thats true. waterboarding is an ice cream sunday to them. but both fall under "torture" so can't do it.

    Do you have a link to the agreed upon list of what is torture and what is not?

    Again, I'm not defending anything, but I do think there's more of a grey area here than meets the eye.

    For example, if someone had a genuine phobia of caterpillars, it might be torture to tie them down and let them crawl all over them.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • lazymoon13
    lazymoon13 Posts: 838
    know1 wrote:
    Do you have a link to the agreed upon list of what is torture and what is not?

    Again, I'm not defending anything, but I do think there's more of a grey area here than meets the eye.

    For example, if someone had a genuine phobia of caterpillars, it might be torture to tie them down and let them crawl all over them.

    haha I hear ya man. no I don't have a link. I have a few personal feelings about waterboarding being torture or not, but seems as if the general consensus is that it is. as soon as it goes anywhere near that category, we shouldn't do it. for obvious reasons that I'm sure you agree with.
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    Good guys don't torture. Don't we see ourselves as the Good Guys? Torture is something we think of when we think of Nazis and Soviets and terrorists.
    In order to defeat... do not become them. If you do... you have failed.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • Kel Varnsen
    Kel Varnsen Posts: 1,952
    mammasan wrote:
    The fact that our government would stoop to using these tactics is extremely disturbing to me. I understand that we are dealing with individuals who would cut my head off and post it on YouTube, but we are not like those people. We are a civilized nation with laws, morals, ethics and irregardless of who our enemy is we should never lower ourselves to level at which they operate.


    Not to mention how well does this kind of thing really work? I mean yes if you waterboard a terrorist he is probably going to admit to being a terrorist if it makes you stop, but at the same time if I was waterboarded I would admit to being a terrorist. If that's how it works how reliable is your information going to be?
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    Kel Varnsen wrote:
    Not to mention how well does this kind of thing really work. I mean yes if you waterboard a terrorist he is probably going to admit to being a terrorist if it makes you stop, but at the same time if I was waterboarded I would admit to being a terrorist.

    True. A lot of experts state that information ontained through torture is for the most part unreliable.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    mammasan wrote:
    True. A lot of experts state that information ontained through torture is for the most part unreliable.
    ...
    I saw a 'My Name is Earl' episode where he crossed paths with the local Homeland Security. They thought Earl was a terrorist so they interrogated him by putting this tube up his butt and asking him if he was a terrorist. They would keep putting it in, further and further until he admitted to being a terrorist.
    As soon as they put it in, Earl screamed, "I'm a terrorist! I'm a terrorist! Take it out! Take it out!"
    ...
    I know it's comedy... but, it's kinda true.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • Kel Varnsen
    Kel Varnsen Posts: 1,952
    Cosmo wrote:
    ...
    I saw a 'My Name is Earl' episode where he crossed paths with the local Homeland Security. They thought Earl was a terrorist so they interrogated him by putting this tube up his butt and asking him if he was a terrorist. They would keep putting it in, further and further until he admitted to being a terrorist.
    As soon as they put it in, Earl screamed, "I'm a terrorist! I'm a terrorist! Take it out! Take it out!"
    ...
    I know it's comedy... but, it's kinda true.

    I remember that, it was pretty funny, plus didn't he admit to shooting Lincoln? But your right it is probably a true, plus if pretty much anyone who gets waterboarded is going to admit to being a terrorist, how do they know the guy they have is an actual terrorist, and not just some guy who they picked up who was walking along the streets of Kabul minding his own business?
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    Kel Varnsen wrote:
    I remember that, it was pretty funny, plus didn't he admit to shooting Lincoln? But your right it is probably a true, plus if pretty much anyone who gets waterboarded is going to admit to being a terrorist, how do they know the guy they have is an actual terrorist, and not just some guy who they picked up who was walking along the streets of Kabul minding his own business?
    ...
    I'd admit to being Usama bin Laden to get them to stop torturing me.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • GreenTeaDisease
    GreenTeaDisease Posts: 3,359
    Cosmo wrote:
    Good guys don't torture. Don't we see ourselves as the Good Guys? Torture is something we think of when we think of Nazis and Soviets and terrorists.
    In order to defeat... do not become them. If you do... you have failed.

    I think the reasoning is it's ok if you don't do it to your "own" people ;)
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    Cosmo wrote:
    ...
    I saw a 'My Name is Earl' episode where he crossed paths with the local Homeland Security. They thought Earl was a terrorist so they interrogated him by putting this tube up his butt and asking him if he was a terrorist. They would keep putting it in, further and further until he admitted to being a terrorist.
    As soon as they put it in, Earl screamed, "I'm a terrorist! I'm a terrorist! Take it out! Take it out!"
    ...
    I know it's comedy... but, it's kinda true.

    If someone was shoving a tube up my ass I would claim to be who ever the fuck they wanted me to be.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • GreenTeaDisease
    GreenTeaDisease Posts: 3,359
    mammasan wrote:
    If someone was shoving a tube up my ass I would claim to be who ever the fuck they wanted me to be.

    it's disturbingly similar to throwing an accused witch into a lake to see if she'll float.
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    Cosmo wrote:
    Good guys don't torture. Don't we see ourselves as the Good Guys? Torture is something we think of when we think of Nazis and Soviets and terrorists.
    In order to defeat... do not become them. If you do... you have failed.


    Sums up my thoughts on the matter, nicely.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • hailhailkc
    hailhailkc Posts: 582
    mammasan wrote:
    If someone was shoving a tube up my ass I would claim to be who ever the fuck they wanted me to be.

    Let's try to keep your bedroom antics out of the thread...mmmkay?! ;)
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  • Towsertunes
    Towsertunes Posts: 187
    If a terrorist has information about something that is going to happen which in turn would kill hundreds if not thousands of innocent American lives,wouldn't you want to try and extract that information.
    I think waterboarding is a acceptable means to get that information.
    "they don't give a shit Keith Moon is dead,
    is that exactly what I thought I read?"


    How I choose to feel,...Is how I am.
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    Towsertunes wrote:
    If a terrorist has information about something that is going to happen which in turn would kill hundreds if not thousands of innocent American lives,wouldn't you want to try and extract that information.
    I think waterboarding is a acceptable means to get that information.

    How do you know he's not saying whatever you might want to hear to have the torture stopped?
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde

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