Windfall Profit Tax On Apple Computers

sponger

CorporateWhore wrote:

As it stands, anyone who complains about oil prices is just a cheapskate. The fact is: if you are willing to pay it, then that is the price you should pay. If the oil companies know that they can raise prices and you will pay it, then they will. If they don't think you will pay it, they won't raise prices. What is the maximum amount of profit they can make - they is what they want to make.

The problem with people who favor oil regulation by the government is that they are opposed to the free market, when all American freedom comes from the free market. It is one of the only avenues of freedom left in this country.

But, when different oil companies use each other as a gauge for what to charge, then it's an abuse of the free market. In other words, the industry becomes a monopoly because the parties involved are thinking as one.

lukin2006

world wrote:

Dude, high taxes is the last thing this country needs. Our government makes a SHITLOAD of money already through taxes. You should see how much of it gets wasted. If guys like Ross Perot, Jack Welch, and Steve Jobs were able to run this country like a business and cut through all the bureaucratic bullshit. We would have a giant surplus, congressmen would be held accountable, and not a single penny would be wasted on pork. Governments are the least effecient organizations on the planet. Thats why I never think communism will work, governments suck at everything.

Not everything.


They are good at wasting money

They are good at not having a clue

They are good at creating a shit load of paper work for the most mundane task

They are good at taxing the shit out of us

They are good at collecting a huge pay cheque yet don't want to accept resposibilty for screwing up

They are good at many more things that I am sure we do not want the to be good at

enharmonic

world wrote:

Wait one second, bottled water is 3x more expensive then gasoline, and ice cream is 30x more expensive. Oil has to be sucked out of the ground, shipped across the world, refined into gasoline, and shipped to stations. I think its pretty cheap. Also, to say that this is "American" is implying that the United States is the only country that is unscrupulous. That is an ignorant and dumb statement. Take a look at the countries in the United Nations and their "oil-for-food" program.

How is it an ignorant and dumb statement to identify America as an unscrupulous country? Did I mention anywhere in my post that America was the ONLY unscrupulous country?

Too quick with that sniper rifle...makes you look like a horse's patoot.

Kann

CorporateWhore wrote:

Most of the people that say we are being "held hostage" by oil manufacturers don't understand the basic economics behind oil production and distribution.

I say that, and I honestly think I understand the economics behind oil production and distribution.

CorporateWhore wrote:

In the short term, yes, you have to pay high prices because you own a car that needs gas. But, you could move closer to your job, take public transportation, or work a second job. If you really don't want to pay high prices for gasoline, then you don't have to in the long term. There are many options.

That's a really optimistic thought. I have 100 reasons not to use oil and try to when I can. But it's sometimes impossible, living in the current world and not relying on oil means living in a hippy comunity off of self produced vegetables.

CorporateWhore wrote:

If we were actually being held hostage by oil manufacturers, that would mean that the government required everyone to own a vehicle, work 100 miles away from their job, and public transportation was being shut down by the oil manufacturers.

Oil manufacturers do not try anything to keep the prices stable. It may be because they lack the power to do so, or that they are just to lazy for that. But I have a more paranoid point of view. Once again relying on oil is mandatory in today's world. I don't even own a car and the prices at the pump affect my life.

CorporateWhore wrote:

As it stands, anyone who complains about oil prices is just a cheapskate. The fact is: if you are willing to pay it, then that is the price you should pay. If the oil companies know that they can raise prices and you will pay it, then they will. If they don't think you will pay it, they won't raise prices. What is the maximum amount of profit they can make - they is what they want to make.

I disagree with the first sentence, some of the people complaining may have low income and are particularly affected by the prices. As for the rest I agree, and disagree. I know you don't understand this but something as important as oil should not be the toy of greedy short-term seeing people. I think you hate this word, but I feel regulation could be nice. But let's say I'm far off, considering their profits for such a vital resource don't you believe these companies could use the money for r&d on trivial things such as the envrionment, effective refining and cutting the depency on oil? (Wich would profit to these companies in the long run).

The problem with people who favor oil regulation by the government is that they are opposed to the free market, when all American freedom comes from the free market. It is one of the only avenues of freedom left in this country.

And I thought you worshipped the freedom you have in America.
But first of all, in some countries freedom comes from the constitution. But you're right I'm in favor for oil regulation and I think free market should be regulated as well.

NMyTree

This is a fuckin' joke!

'Windfall" tax? What the fuck is that supposed to be!?!?!

Bunch of fuckin' thieves......each and every one of them!

Nothing like a bunch of blood (cash) sucking parasites drawn to a prey, by the smell of success (high profits).

Americans need to wake the fuck up and squash this kind of theft.

jlew24asu

NMyTree wrote:

This is a fuckin' joke!

'Windfall" tax? What the fuck is that supposed to be!?!?!

Bunch of fuckin' thieves......each and every one of them!

Nothing like a bunch of blood (cash) sucking parasites drawn to a prey, by the smell of success (high profits).

Americans need to wake the fuck up and squash this kind of theft.

its sad but many americans are happy with this. the left in this country want higher taxes and love it when big corporations are punished

NMyTree

jlew24asu wrote:

its sad but many americans are happy with this. the left in this country want higher taxes and love it when big corporations are punished

It's no just the Left. The Right has their own crosses to bear. They are no better.

They are all thieves. Every single one of them.

Uncle Leo

I have never agreed so much with this guy in my life. I'm blown away. Blllllllooooowwwwnnnnnn away.

CorporateWhore wrote:

Windfall profit taxes don't really seem to make sense. Are you going to penalize someone for having a successful product?

As a liberal that believes in taxing and government (in theory anyway), I am baffled that the government could have a "windfall tax" on a company that makes too much profit. If they make more profit, their percentage should dictate that they pay more money. It just does not make sense to add to it.

CorporateWhore wrote:

Most of the people that say we are being "held hostage" by oil manufacturers don't understand the basic economics behind oil production and distribution. In the short term, yes, you have to pay high prices because you own a car that needs gas. But, you could move closer to your job, take public transportation, or work a second job. If you really don't want to pay high prices for gasoline, then you don't have to in the long term. There are many options.

If we were actually being held hostage by oil manufacturers, that would mean that the government required everyone to own a vehicle, work 100 miles away from their job, and public transportation was being shut down by the oil manufacturers.

As it stands, anyone who complains about oil prices is just a cheapskate. The fact is: if you are willing to pay it, then that is the price you should pay. If the oil companies know that they can raise prices and you will pay it, then they will. If they don't think you will pay it, they won't raise prices. What is the maximum amount of profit they can make - they is what they want to make.

It's weird. Prices change on all sorts of products (albeit, not as volatally as on gasoline). And people that usually have at least some comfort in the market start to think that low gasoline prices are somewhere in the constitution. The fact that the oil companies are making big profit when they are charging a lot is not because of anything "shady" it's economics 101--supply and demand. Demand in this case. If they raise the prices and we keep buying it, why the hell would they lower them just because the production price goes down? Want to drop the price of gasoline? Drop your consumption (particularly when the price goes to high for your liking). The reason we are "slaves to oil" is because we (as individuals and society) have made a series of choices that led us to complete auto dependance. Move away from that. Think about your driving behaivors. Do you "trip chain" or make extra trips home between errands? Do you walk or drive to a destination 4 blocks away? Do you drive somewhere for lunch during work? What kind of vehicle do you drive. How far from work do you live? Do you drive your kids to school when the bus could pick them up down the street? Can you name the bus route that comes closest to your home? I know you don't have control over certain of these things, but some of it is our complete obediance to "convenience."

Then I always hear "yeah, but gas is important to the economy." No shit. So are all products.

I don't like oil companies. The best way to stick it to them is to make sure to minimize how much you patronize them.

CorporateWhore wrote:

The problem with people who favor oil regulation by the government is that they are opposed to the free market, when all American freedom comes from the free market. It is one of the only avenues of freedom left in this country.

This is where I (inevitably) fall off of CorporteWhore's bandwagon. As much as I agree with him on this oil debate, I also belive that the market fails and that it must at times, be intervened upon. Public schools, pollution laws, the military and the US interstate highway system are all interventions on market flaws. I am very comfortable with those and some others. For example, it is dangerous to allow the market to sift out meat producers that sell danerous meat just to save you a buck--Hence USDA regs. But to just fix the price of gasoline because we want our cheap gas and lazy lifestyle is an unneeded and couterproductive market intervention.

EDIT: I love public transportation, a gas-saving device mentioned by CorpWhore. But CorpWhore, keep in mind that the bus system is created by the government. The market could never support it. Is the bus system not contrary to "one of the only avenues of freedom left in this country?" Just something to think about.

jlew24asu

NMyTree wrote:

It's no just the Left. The Right has their own crosses to bear. They are no better.

They are all thieves. Every single one of them.

sure of course they are but when it comes to the example in question and with regards to higher taxes. the left carries that burden

NMyTree

They are both the same.

They go to the same colleges.

They are memebers of the same elitist clubs.

They are members of the same secret societies.

They have the same goals.


The Politics.....The System ....The Media of this country (and arguably) of this World.......it's all set up to divide the people of this country (of this world). Not unite.

United we are strong. Divided we are vulnerable.

It may sound hokey to some people, but I believe it's the truth.

These rich corporate fuckers, the Politicians; they want us divided, bickering and untrusting of each other as individuals and as citizens.

Peddling biased, partisan myths based on self-interest and greed-which creates the choosing of sides and loyalty to one side or the other. It creates bickering and conflict.

Sort of like a sporting event where the viewers pick a team (or one side).

An united populous is a dangerous thing to these fuckers. An united populous which communicates with each other, trusts each other and discusses issues, as opposed to partisan loyalties; is an enlightened populous.

These fuckers don't want that.

Maybe one day, we will show these fuckers that the majority of us won't be lured into their charade.

granparocks

maybe i missed it and someone has said this already, but those of you complaining about the windfall tax are overlooking the fact that oil companies get billion in tax BREAKS for anything from development to distribution. They also have the US governmnet to cover for them in many countries where they are invested.

also, apple makes its money from intellectual property. exxon, and other oil companies, make their money from fossil fuels, which they have no right to except that they make the investment to go get it. however, fossil fuels are much closer to a public good, which means there can be a vested interest in government intervention in this market. and government intervention there is.

further, apple profits, were around $352 million. not quite exxon range.

to argue that oil companies fit right into the concept of supply and demand is a real stretch, in my opinion.

world

enharmonic wrote:

How is it an ignorant and dumb statement to identify America as an unscrupulous country? Did I mention anywhere in my post that America was the ONLY unscrupulous country?

Too quick with that sniper rifle...makes you look like a horse's patoot.

Why dont you just say that. You directly say that America is unscrupulous. It is wrong to say "Blacks are lazy" then say later after criticism "Well, I didnt say ONLY Blacks."

America, no matter how retarded Dubya is, is still a great country with fair and honest people along with the rest of the world. Dont try to stereotype what isnt there. Go take a look at the Bill/Melinda Gates Foundation and the plenty of other awesome work people from America do.

darthvedder81

NMyTree wrote:

It's no just the Left. The Right has their own crosses to bear. They are no better.

They are all thieves. Every single one of them.

I agree. The Republicans have totally pussed out on fiscal responsibility now. The President said as much in the State of the Union when he called for massive increases in health care.

That's why I don't get it when the radical left accuses Bush of being some crazy budget slashing Libertarian-Conservative. He's nothing of the sort. Fiscally he's the same as Clinton—maybe worse.

As much as the War in Iraq and Afghanistan has cost us it still pales in comparison to the rest of bullshit our taxes go to. I might be drifting to far into hyperbole but maybe AOL/Time Warner should just buy the government! At least evil multinational corporations know how to be financially responsible!

Last Exodus

http://media.npr.org/programs/fa/features/2006/02/iran_500.jpg

Kann

Last Exodus wrote:

http://media.npr.org/programs/fa/features/2006/02/iran_500.jpg

What does that have to do with the subject?

Last Exodus

Kann wrote:

What does that have to do with the subject?

nothing, mispost...oops

enharmonic

world wrote:

Why dont you just say that.

Because I don't have to. Most people understand my point

world wrote:

You directly say that America is unscrupulous.

Now, we're getting somehwere. Yes, I did say just that.

world wrote:

It is wrong to say "Blacks are lazy"

Not if it's true.

world wrote:

then say later after criticism "Well, I didnt say ONLY Blacks."

Well, if the discussion is about kids who don't do their chores, and someone says "Blacks are lazy", then we have a context issue. If the criticism is valid and relevant to the discussion, then it has a purpose. What was your purpose?

world wrote:

Go take a look at the Bill/Melinda Gates Foundation...

We are discussing a for-profit American company...not a non-profit philanthropy organization, or non-American, unscrupulous, capitalist corporation.

Your apples and oranges are without merit in this discussion.

RainDog

darthvedder81 wrote:

I agree. The Republicans have totally pussed out on fiscal responsibility now. The President said as much in the State of the Union when he called for massive increases in health care.

That's why I don't get it when the radical left accuses Bush of being some crazy budget slashing Libertarian-Conservative.

I've never said that, and I've never really heard it either. No, I tend to think of Bush as a reactive, socially uptight, regressive, war-loving (in a Tommy Two-Pump sort of way), church pandering, militant overspender who wants nothing more than to exhaust our national coffers in a way where we'll have nothing of value to show for it.

No, I've never considered him a libertarian, and I've never seen him as fiscally conservative.