Windfall Profit Tax On Apple Computers

worldworld Posts: 266
edited January 2007 in A Moving Train
Last year the Democrats in Congress tried to impose a "windfall" tax on oil company profits because of Exxon having 9 billion dollars in profits for one quarter. Now that the Democrats have control of Congress, will they try to impose a "windfall" profit tax on Apple? Apple had over 7 billion dollars in profits last quarter? Im predicting that they will try something similar to what they tried with Exxon.
Chicago '98, Noblesville '00, East Troy '00, Chicago '00, Champaign '03, Chicago '03, Chicago1 '06, Chicago2 '06, Milwaukee '06, Chicago1 '09, and Chicago2 '09
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Comments

  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    I think thats bullshit. windfall tax? for being too successfully? what a shame. if Apple were somehow a monopoly I would love to see some action taken. but they are by no means a monopoly
  • jeffbrjeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    Thievery and punishment of success. I hope this goes nowhere, but for some reason there are plenty of people who will see no problem with this type of theft, as evidenced by the minimum wage debates we have here.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • worldworld Posts: 266
    jlew24asu wrote:
    I think thats bullshit. windfall tax? for being too successfully? what a shame. if Apple were somehow a monopoly I would love to see some action taken. but they are by no means a monopoly

    Well, Exxon isnt a monopoly right? So, why not?
    Chicago '98, Noblesville '00, East Troy '00, Chicago '00, Champaign '03, Chicago '03, Chicago1 '06, Chicago2 '06, Milwaukee '06, Chicago1 '09, and Chicago2 '09
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    world wrote:
    Well, Exxon isnt a monopoly right? So, why not?
    why not what?
  • spongersponger Posts: 3,159
    jlew24asu wrote:
    why not what?

    He's asking why you have no problem with exxon getting a windfall tax when they are not a monopoly either. He's assuming you don't have a problem with it because you didn't say that you did.
  • world wrote:
    Last year the Democrats in Congress tried to impose a "windfall" tax on oil company profits because of Exxon having 9 billion dollars in profits for one quarter. Now that the Democrats have control of Congress, will they try to impose a "windfall" profit tax on Apple? Apple had over 7 billion dollars in profits last quarter? Im predicting that they will try something similar to what they tried with Exxon.

    Al Gore is on Apple's BOD so I'm sure he'll make some calls and get them out of it.

    On the other hand Democrats will tax the shit out of anything they can so who knows...
    So this life is sacrifice...
    6/30/98 Minneapolis, 10/8/00 East Troy (Brrrr!), 6/16/03 St. Paul, 6/27/06 St. Paul
  • spongersponger Posts: 3,159
    Apple isn't engaged in price-fixing with its competitors. Also, Apple didn't dump 20 million gallons of crude oil into the Alaskan sea. Further, Apple hasn't been systematically stemming the development of alternative fuels through back-alley purchases of patents and assassinations of alternative fuel scientists. And, lastly, Apple doesn't get oral sex from prominent republican politicians -only handjobs instead.
  • NOCODE#1NOCODE#1 Posts: 1,477

    On the other hand Democrats will tax the shit out of anything they can so who knows...
    thats because the worst president in the history of our country has driven this country so far in debt, that its a necessary step. brilliant plan though
    Let's not be negative now. Thumper has spoken
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    NOCODE#1 wrote:
    thats because the worst president in the history of our country has driven this country so far in debt, that its a necessary step. brilliant plan though
    it is absolutely 100% NOT a necessary step. the fact that you believe that just shows your ignorance. sorry but it does. this country makes enough money without having to milk its citizens for more. the Iraq war and hurricane katrina have accounted for a large portions of spending that hopefully will not happen next year

    I find it disturbing that you find it ok for the government to raise taxes simply because you are a democrat and feel whatever they do is ok. wake up
  • know1know1 Posts: 6,794
    sponger wrote:
    Apple isn't engaged in price-fixing with its competitors. Also, Apple didn't dump 20 million gallons of crude oil into the Alaskan sea. Further, Apple hasn't been systematically stemming the development of alternative fuels through back-alley purchases of patents and assassinations of alternative fuel scientists. And, lastly, Apple doesn't get oral sex from prominent republican politicians -only handjobs instead.

    Apple isn't price fixing, huh? What do you call iTunes?
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • spongersponger Posts: 3,159
    know1 wrote:
    Apple isn't price fixing, huh? What do you call iTunes?

    i tunes is owned by apple. In order for price-fixing to take place, several companies in the same industry must be colluding to keep prices at a constant. I'm glad you decided to quote my posts tonight. I was worried I wouldn't have anyone to repeatedly correct as though they didn't understand english.
  • worldworld Posts: 266
    NOCODE#1 wrote:
    thats because the worst president in the history of our country has driven this country so far in debt, that its a necessary step. brilliant plan though

    Dude, high taxes is the last thing this country needs. Our government makes a SHITLOAD of money already through taxes. You should see how much of it gets wasted. If guys like Ross Perot, Jack Welch, and Steve Jobs were able to run this country like a business and cut through all the bureaucratic bullshit. We would have a giant surplus, congressmen would be held accountable, and not a single penny would be wasted on pork. Governments are the least effecient organizations on the planet. Thats why I never think communism will work, governments suck at everything.
    Chicago '98, Noblesville '00, East Troy '00, Chicago '00, Champaign '03, Chicago '03, Chicago1 '06, Chicago2 '06, Milwaukee '06, Chicago1 '09, and Chicago2 '09
  • CollinCollin Posts: 4,931
    world wrote:
    Governments are the least effecient organizations on the planet. Thats why I never think communism will work, governments suck at everything.

    :confused:

    I think you have a rather weird view of communism.
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  • worldworld Posts: 266
    Collin wrote:
    :confused:

    I think you have a rather weird view of communism.

    Doesnt the government run all businesss under communism?
    Chicago '98, Noblesville '00, East Troy '00, Chicago '00, Champaign '03, Chicago '03, Chicago1 '06, Chicago2 '06, Milwaukee '06, Chicago1 '09, and Chicago2 '09
  • jeffbrjeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    NOCODE#1 wrote:
    thats because the worst president in the history of our country has driven this country so far in debt, that its a necessary step. brilliant plan though

    Please outline why this theft is a necessary step to solve the debt issue, from which apparently we'd otherwise not recover.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • know1know1 Posts: 6,794
    sponger wrote:
    i tunes is owned by apple. In order for price-fixing to take place, several companies in the same industry must be colluding to keep prices at a constant. I'm glad you decided to quote my posts tonight. I was worried I wouldn't have anyone to repeatedly correct as though they didn't understand english.

    The same thing could be said about the oil companies.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • enharmonicenharmonic Posts: 1,917
    Well, this is an interesting question.

    I suppose that if you could look at iPod's and Mac's as a commodity that is critical to commerce...critical in a way that petrolium products are...then we might have a real apples to apples (pardon the pun) debate here.

    Thing is, Apple didn't falsely elevate the costs of making iPods and hold people hostage at the Mac stores across the company the way Exxon held people hostage at the pump. If there were...say...a silicon chip cartel that controlled who got the chips, how many they could get, and how much they would cost...I could make a case for Apple gouging the consumer.

    The difference here is that Apple hedged on a technology that no one thought would corner the market, and the hedge went in their favor...THIS TIME. They did the same thing 30 years ago with their closed system architecture, and IMO it cost them the battle for marketplace dominance. They speculated that the american consumer would pay more for a better machine with a better operating system. They were wrong. People wanted computers fast and cheap, and didn't really care that DOS, or MS Windows wasn't as sexy or intuitive as Mac OS.

    Had the iTunes /iPod gamble tanked the way that thier initial gamble back in the late 70's did, I hazard a guess that Apple would not be the same company that it is today. They devised a way to make their higher entry PC's a legitimate contender by appealing to the entertainment, rich-media savvy consumer.

    Exxon could take some of its profits and build more refineries, better, environmentally superior refineries...infrastructure that would allow them to reduce their prices in the long run, or at least keep them constant for a longer period of time, bu t they have not. They know that they have consumers by the balls, and needlessly gouged them to take advantage of the energy crisis/Katrina. That is unscrupulous, and totally American. It's the dark underbelly of the capitalist system.

    If you need an artificial heart, and I am the only game in town, I can charge you 100,000 dollars for the heart. You might not be able to pay it, but the next man will. Your loved one dies, and capitalism doesn't care.
    While this might sound extreme in relation to the current topic, it is nonetheless pertinent.
  • Windfall profit taxes don't really seem to make sense. Are you going to penalize someone for having a successful product?

    Most of the people that say we are being "held hostage" by oil manufacturers don't understand the basic economics behind oil production and distribution. In the short term, yes, you have to pay high prices because you own a car that needs gas. But, you could move closer to your job, take public transportation, or work a second job. If you really don't want to pay high prices for gasoline, then you don't have to in the long term. There are many options.

    If we were actually being held hostage by oil manufacturers, that would mean that the government required everyone to own a vehicle, work 100 miles away from their job, and public transportation was being shut down by the oil manufacturers.

    As it stands, anyone who complains about oil prices is just a cheapskate. The fact is: if you are willing to pay it, then that is the price you should pay. If the oil companies know that they can raise prices and you will pay it, then they will. If they don't think you will pay it, they won't raise prices. What is the maximum amount of profit they can make - they is what they want to make.

    The problem with people who favor oil regulation by the government is that they are opposed to the free market, when all American freedom comes from the free market. It is one of the only avenues of freedom left in this country.
    All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
    -Enoch Powell
  • worldworld Posts: 266
    enharmonic wrote:
    Thing is, Apple didn't falsely elevate the costs of making iPods and hold people hostage at the Mac stores across the company the way Exxon held people hostage at the pump. If there were...say...a silicon chip cartel that controlled who got the chips, how many they could get, and how much they would cost...I could make a case for Apple gouging the consumer.

    Exxon could take some of its profits and build more refineries, better, environmentally superior refineries...infrastructure that would allow them to reduce their prices in the long run, or at least keep them constant for a longer period of time, bu t they have not. They know that they have consumers by the balls, and needlessly gouged them to take advantage of the energy crisis/Katrina. That is unscrupulous, and totally American. It's the dark underbelly of the capitalist system.

    Wait one second, bottled water is 3x more expensive then gasoline, and ice cream is 30x more expensive. Oil has to be sucked out of the ground, shipped across the world, refined into gasoline, and shipped to stations. I think its pretty cheap. Also, to say that this is "American" is implying that the United States is the only country that is unscrupulous. That is an ignorant and dumb statement. Take a look at the countries in the United Nations and their "oil-for-food" program.
    Chicago '98, Noblesville '00, East Troy '00, Chicago '00, Champaign '03, Chicago '03, Chicago1 '06, Chicago2 '06, Milwaukee '06, Chicago1 '09, and Chicago2 '09
  • spongersponger Posts: 3,159
    know1 wrote:
    The same thing could be said about the oil companies.

    That's what I'm saying. Oil companies, not Apple, are engaged in price-fixing. Wow you must really enjoy being shown the obvious.
  • spongersponger Posts: 3,159
    As it stands, anyone who complains about oil prices is just a cheapskate. The fact is: if you are willing to pay it, then that is the price you should pay. If the oil companies know that they can raise prices and you will pay it, then they will. If they don't think you will pay it, they won't raise prices. What is the maximum amount of profit they can make - they is what they want to make.

    The problem with people who favor oil regulation by the government is that they are opposed to the free market, when all American freedom comes from the free market. It is one of the only avenues of freedom left in this country.

    But, when different oil companies use each other as a gauge for what to charge, then it's an abuse of the free market. In other words, the industry becomes a monopoly because the parties involved are thinking as one.
  • lukin2006lukin2006 Posts: 9,087
    world wrote:
    Dude, high taxes is the last thing this country needs. Our government makes a SHITLOAD of money already through taxes. You should see how much of it gets wasted. If guys like Ross Perot, Jack Welch, and Steve Jobs were able to run this country like a business and cut through all the bureaucratic bullshit. We would have a giant surplus, congressmen would be held accountable, and not a single penny would be wasted on pork. Governments are the least effecient organizations on the planet. Thats why I never think communism will work, governments suck at everything.

    Not everything.


    They are good at wasting money

    They are good at not having a clue

    They are good at creating a shit load of paper work for the most mundane task

    They are good at taxing the shit out of us

    They are good at collecting a huge pay cheque yet don't want to accept resposibilty for screwing up

    They are good at many more things that I am sure we do not want the to be good at
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
  • enharmonicenharmonic Posts: 1,917
    world wrote:
    Wait one second, bottled water is 3x more expensive then gasoline, and ice cream is 30x more expensive. Oil has to be sucked out of the ground, shipped across the world, refined into gasoline, and shipped to stations. I think its pretty cheap. Also, to say that this is "American" is implying that the United States is the only country that is unscrupulous. That is an ignorant and dumb statement. Take a look at the countries in the United Nations and their "oil-for-food" program.

    How is it an ignorant and dumb statement to identify America as an unscrupulous country? Did I mention anywhere in my post that America was the ONLY unscrupulous country?

    Too quick with that sniper rifle...makes you look like a horse's patoot.
  • KannKann Posts: 1,146
    Most of the people that say we are being "held hostage" by oil manufacturers don't understand the basic economics behind oil production and distribution.
    I say that, and I honestly think I understand the economics behind oil production and distribution.
    In the short term, yes, you have to pay high prices because you own a car that needs gas. But, you could move closer to your job, take public transportation, or work a second job. If you really don't want to pay high prices for gasoline, then you don't have to in the long term. There are many options.
    That's a really optimistic thought. I have 100 reasons not to use oil and try to when I can. But it's sometimes impossible, living in the current world and not relying on oil means living in a hippy comunity off of self produced vegetables.
    If we were actually being held hostage by oil manufacturers, that would mean that the government required everyone to own a vehicle, work 100 miles away from their job, and public transportation was being shut down by the oil manufacturers.
    Oil manufacturers do not try anything to keep the prices stable. It may be because they lack the power to do so, or that they are just to lazy for that. But I have a more paranoid point of view. Once again relying on oil is mandatory in today's world. I don't even own a car and the prices at the pump affect my life.
    As it stands, anyone who complains about oil prices is just a cheapskate. The fact is: if you are willing to pay it, then that is the price you should pay. If the oil companies know that they can raise prices and you will pay it, then they will. If they don't think you will pay it, they won't raise prices. What is the maximum amount of profit they can make - they is what they want to make.
    I disagree with the first sentence, some of the people complaining may have low income and are particularly affected by the prices. As for the rest I agree, and disagree. I know you don't understand this but something as important as oil should not be the toy of greedy short-term seeing people. I think you hate this word, but I feel regulation could be nice. But let's say I'm far off, considering their profits for such a vital resource don't you believe these companies could use the money for r&d on trivial things such as the envrionment, effective refining and cutting the depency on oil? (Wich would profit to these companies in the long run).
    The problem with people who favor oil regulation by the government is that they are opposed to the free market, when all American freedom comes from the free market. It is one of the only avenues of freedom left in this country.
    And I thought you worshipped the freedom you have in America.
    But first of all, in some countries freedom comes from the constitution. But you're right I'm in favor for oil regulation and I think free market should be regulated as well.
  • NMyTreeNMyTree Posts: 2,374
    This is a fuckin' joke!

    'Windfall" tax? What the fuck is that supposed to be!?!?!

    Bunch of fuckin' thieves......each and every one of them!

    Nothing like a bunch of blood (cash) sucking parasites drawn to a prey, by the smell of success (high profits).

    Americans need to wake the fuck up and squash this kind of theft.
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    NMyTree wrote:
    This is a fuckin' joke!

    'Windfall" tax? What the fuck is that supposed to be!?!?!

    Bunch of fuckin' thieves......each and every one of them!

    Nothing like a bunch of blood (cash) sucking parasites drawn to a prey, by the smell of success (high profits).

    Americans need to wake the fuck up and squash this kind of theft.
    its sad but many americans are happy with this. the left in this country want higher taxes and love it when big corporations are punished
  • NMyTreeNMyTree Posts: 2,374
    jlew24asu wrote:
    its sad but many americans are happy with this. the left in this country want higher taxes and love it when big corporations are punished


    It's no just the Left. The Right has their own crosses to bear. They are no better.

    They are all thieves. Every single one of them.
  • Uncle LeoUncle Leo Posts: 1,059
    I have never agreed so much with this guy in my life. I'm blown away. Blllllllooooowwwwnnnnnn away.
    Windfall profit taxes don't really seem to make sense. Are you going to penalize someone for having a successful product?
    As a liberal that believes in taxing and government (in theory anyway), I am baffled that the government could have a "windfall tax" on a company that makes too much profit. If they make more profit, their percentage should dictate that they pay more money. It just does not make sense to add to it.

    Most of the people that say we are being "held hostage" by oil manufacturers don't understand the basic economics behind oil production and distribution. In the short term, yes, you have to pay high prices because you own a car that needs gas. But, you could move closer to your job, take public transportation, or work a second job. If you really don't want to pay high prices for gasoline, then you don't have to in the long term. There are many options.

    If we were actually being held hostage by oil manufacturers, that would mean that the government required everyone to own a vehicle, work 100 miles away from their job, and public transportation was being shut down by the oil manufacturers.

    As it stands, anyone who complains about oil prices is just a cheapskate. The fact is: if you are willing to pay it, then that is the price you should pay. If the oil companies know that they can raise prices and you will pay it, then they will. If they don't think you will pay it, they won't raise prices. What is the maximum amount of profit they can make - they is what they want to make.

    It's weird. Prices change on all sorts of products (albeit, not as volatally as on gasoline). And people that usually have at least some comfort in the market start to think that low gasoline prices are somewhere in the constitution. The fact that the oil companies are making big profit when they are charging a lot is not because of anything "shady" it's economics 101--supply and demand. Demand in this case. If they raise the prices and we keep buying it, why the hell would they lower them just because the production price goes down? Want to drop the price of gasoline? Drop your consumption (particularly when the price goes to high for your liking). The reason we are "slaves to oil" is because we (as individuals and society) have made a series of choices that led us to complete auto dependance. Move away from that. Think about your driving behaivors. Do you "trip chain" or make extra trips home between errands? Do you walk or drive to a destination 4 blocks away? Do you drive somewhere for lunch during work? What kind of vehicle do you drive. How far from work do you live? Do you drive your kids to school when the bus could pick them up down the street? Can you name the bus route that comes closest to your home? I know you don't have control over certain of these things, but some of it is our complete obediance to "convenience."

    Then I always hear "yeah, but gas is important to the economy." No shit. So are all products.

    I don't like oil companies. The best way to stick it to them is to make sure to minimize how much you patronize them.

    The problem with people who favor oil regulation by the government is that they are opposed to the free market, when all American freedom comes from the free market. It is one of the only avenues of freedom left in this country.

    This is where I (inevitably) fall off of CorporteWhore's bandwagon. As much as I agree with him on this oil debate, I also belive that the market fails and that it must at times, be intervened upon. Public schools, pollution laws, the military and the US interstate highway system are all interventions on market flaws. I am very comfortable with those and some others. For example, it is dangerous to allow the market to sift out meat producers that sell danerous meat just to save you a buck--Hence USDA regs. But to just fix the price of gasoline because we want our cheap gas and lazy lifestyle is an unneeded and couterproductive market intervention.

    EDIT: I love public transportation, a gas-saving device mentioned by CorpWhore. But CorpWhore, keep in mind that the bus system is created by the government. The market could never support it. Is the bus system not contrary to "one of the only avenues of freedom left in this country?" Just something to think about.
    I cannot come up with a new sig till I get this egg off my face.
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    NMyTree wrote:
    It's no just the Left. The Right has their own crosses to bear. They are no better.

    They are all thieves. Every single one of them.
    sure of course they are but when it comes to the example in question and with regards to higher taxes. the left carries that burden
  • NMyTreeNMyTree Posts: 2,374
    They are both the same.

    They go to the same colleges.

    They are memebers of the same elitist clubs.

    They are members of the same secret societies.

    They have the same goals.


    The Politics.....The System ....The Media of this country (and arguably) of this World.......it's all set up to divide the people of this country (of this world). Not unite.

    United we are strong. Divided we are vulnerable.

    It may sound hokey to some people, but I believe it's the truth.

    These rich corporate fuckers, the Politicians; they want us divided, bickering and untrusting of each other as individuals and as citizens.

    Peddling biased, partisan myths based on self-interest and greed-which creates the choosing of sides and loyalty to one side or the other. It creates bickering and conflict.

    Sort of like a sporting event where the viewers pick a team (or one side).

    An united populous is a dangerous thing to these fuckers. An united populous which communicates with each other, trusts each other and discusses issues, as opposed to partisan loyalties; is an enlightened populous.

    These fuckers don't want that.

    Maybe one day, we will show these fuckers that the majority of us won't be lured into their charade.
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