Uh oh Nader....

Abookamongstthemany

slightofjeff wrote:

This is all true. But only one of two turds are gonna win. Which one you want?

Neither so I'm not voting for one. That would mean making the same mistake everyone else is making. There's no progress in that.

shadowcast

Here’s the thing. There is nobody that will get into office that will ever be able to make a drastic change nowadays. But, you do need somebody to shake it up and start making gradual change. You know, break the ice and start those pistons up (with no blood on them). Then maybe just maybe we can start to get some new Nader type thinkers in there. But, it will be over time and I do believe Obama might be that guy. Remember when people would ask "Do you think there will be a Black president or a Woman president first". For some reason I always thought a woman and I think a lot of you thought that a well. But, if a black president is gets there first then I think we have a big cannonball breaking the ice and we have a jump start.

Abookamongstthemany

freeworld4u&me wrote:

Here’s the thing. There is nobody that will get into office that will ever be able to make a drastic change nowadays. But, you do need somebody to shake it up and start making gradual change. You know, break the ice and start those pistons up (with no blood on them). Then maybe just maybe we can start to get some new Nader type thinkers in there. But, it will be over time and I do believe Obama might be that guy. Remember when people would ask "Do you think there will be a Black president or a Woman president first". For some reason I always thought a woman and I think a lot of you thought that a well. But, if a black president is gets there first then I think we have a big cannonball breaking the ice and we have a jump start.

I used to think that way and then I decided to stop being part of the problem. The two major parties are mostly the same and don't allow for much change. I have issues with Obama and Hillary that I refuse to just ignore. The system is set so they have everyone scared to vote for someone they believe in for fear their vote will be meaningless. They stay in power this way despite how unsatisfied the citizenry is with our elected officials. The same creeps get in year after year and I've had enough. Standing behind something you believe in is not meaningless and no one else is going to do it for you. I don't see what's so great about Obama. How is he such a standout? There are plenty of you guys who think he is worth believing in
and that's your opinion to have. But I don't share it and I won't be voting for him.

Hinny

You guys really should adopt our preferential system. If your number 1 guy doesn't get elected, the full vote gets transferred onto your number 2.

shadowcast

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

I used to think that way and then I decided to stop being part of the problem. The two major parties are mostly the same and don't allow for much change. I have issues with Obama and Hillary that I refuse to just ignore. The system is set so they have everyone scared to vote for someone they believe in for fear their vote will be meaningless. They stay in power this way despite how unsatisfied the citizenry is with our elected officials. The same creeps get in year after year and I've had enough. Standing behind something you believe in is not meaningless and no one else is going to do it for you. I don't see what's so great about Obama. How is he such a standout? There are plenty of you guys who think he is worth believing in
and that's your opinion to have. But I don't share it and I won't be voting for him.

That is a great point but we are becoming more and more liberal. For example and this might get wordy. Let's take something like MTV. People might bash it because it is a commercial whore and they don't play videos but it has made the youth a lot more liberal. Liberal in ways like accepting gays, minorities, different culture ya know? It is also a rating GIANT and it's demographic in what 22 and under? What it has done is chipped away at society so they are more accepting and learning that different people are ok. So mix this demographic with Obama who has not been tainted by Washington yet..... Then you might start getting that fire power that might lead to new type of Nader. It's worth a shot and we need a Hail Mary if you will. So Obama might be that guy. Basically I just want someone who gives a shit.

PearlJain

Hey - I watch FOX News..... And CNN.....AND MSNBC - and other local News Stations. Right Wing, Left Wing - is there truly such a thing as "fair and balanced?" I just try to educate myself. Like we all do.

FinsburyParkCarrots

I think there are only two reasons you Americans have for voting, this year:

(a) To make sure Clinton doesn't get the Democratic nomination

and (b) To make sure McCain doesn't win.

Exercising a precious, principled vote is your right and constitutional privilege but it's also a bit selfish, and self-righteous to put your hallowed views above a sense of duty to others, who are backing the only realistic alternative (however similar to the bad guys you might see him). Don't vote for the person who best shares your opinions, the visionary in the wilderness. Vote for the person who will keep Clinton or McCain away from The White House. Obama mightn't be Che Guevara, but he's better than the alternatives.

It's time to grow up and join the movement, and leave people such as Nader to your days of over-worthy adolescence.

WantedTo

Not being an American I feel like i'm walking on eggs, still. How does Nader reckon he needs a mere $10 million whereas Clinton and Obama and McCain and the others have far, far more for their campaigns?

It's like "Oh we needn't a sherpa, warm clothes, a tent, food, drink or icepicks - we'll walk up to Mt. Everest!"

lalalalaaaaaaaa

freeworld4u&me wrote:

I like Nader and all but this is awful timing

lol...people say that every election he runs in.

Abookamongstthemany

FinsburyParkCarrots wrote:

I think there are only two reasons you Americans have for voting, this year:

(a) To make sure Clinton doesn't get the Democratic nomination

and (b) To make sure McCain doesn't win.

Exercising a precious, principled vote is your right and constitutional privilege but it's also a bit selfish, and self-righteous to put your hallowed views above a sense of duty to others, who are backing the only realistic alternative (however similar to the bad guys you might see him). Don't vote for the person who best shares your opinions, the visionary in the wilderness. Vote for the person who will keep Clinton or McCain away from The White House. Obama mightn't be Che Guevara, but he's better than the alternatives.

It's time to grow up and join the movement, and leave people such as Nader to your days of over-worthy adolescence.

Sorry, I'm not on board with 'growing up' and being part of keeping the same two party system trucking along. The same system that people have been unhappy with for as long as I can remember but continue to support because they are afraid to support anyone the media deems as 'unelectable'. The same system where yes, the candidates have very little difference, are all backed by corporate interests, and offer little more than hot air when it comes to really doing what's best for the american people. It makes no sense to me to vote for people who I view as part of the problem and I won't be a part of it anymore. I'm not following the flock and their bad choice this time and it's my right to disagree and stand up for my 'selfish' principles which oddly enough are mostly centered around altruistic ideals.

cornnifer

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

Sorry, I'm not on board with 'growing up' and being part of keeping the same two party system trucking along. The same system that people have been unhappy with for as long as I can remember but continue to support because they are afraid to support anyone the media deems as 'unelectable'. The same system where yes, the candidates have very little difference, are all backed by corporate interests, and offer little more than hot air when it comes to really doing what's best for the american people. It makes no sense to me to vote for people who I view as part of the problem and I won't be a part of it anymore. I'm not following the flock and their bad choice this time and it's my right to disagree and stand up for my 'selfish' principles which oddly enough are mostly centered around altruistic ideals.

Go ahead and go out and cast your "see i'm a real rebel" ballot for Ralph fucking Nader or who ever the hell else. Its you're perogative and i respect it. i better not see you on here bitching when McCain takes office, though. i'll have to to call you on it.

El_Kabong

FinsburyParkCarrots wrote:

I think there are only two reasons you Americans have for voting, this year:

(a) To make sure Clinton doesn't get the Democratic nomination

and (b) To make sure McCain doesn't win.

Exercising a precious, principled vote is your right and constitutional privilege but it's also a bit selfish, and self-righteous to put your hallowed views above a sense of duty to others, who are backing the only realistic alternative (however similar to the bad guys you might see him). Don't vote for the person who best shares your opinions, the visionary in the wilderness. Vote for the person who will keep Clinton or McCain away from The White House. Obama mightn't be Che Guevara, but he's better than the alternatives.

It's time to grow up and join the movement, and leave people such as Nader to your days of over-worthy adolescence.

so, what you're saying is i have a 'duty' to vote for...who you and some others (including the corporate media) tell me i should vote for....??? are you gonna tell me it's my 'duty' to vote for a particular person for governor? man, maybe they should just let you guys pick the next american idol??

the thing of it is i don't really see much of a difference between obama and clinotn (in fact i prefer her universal plan to obama's 'more affordable' plan) or even mccain at points

but hey, he's a great speaker, right? and you guys tell me i have to vote for him or i'm some impetuant child...am i getting it right? if anything is self-righteous it's that view

w/ all do respect imagine me bending over and pulling down my pants, now pucker up

El_Kabong

cornnifer wrote:

Go ahead and go out and cast your "see i'm a real rebel" ballot for Ralph fucking Nader or who ever the hell else. Its you're perogative and i respect it. i better not see you on here bitching when McCain takes office, though. i'll have to to call you on it.

it's a sad day to see ppl trying to bully the other into voting how they want them to....

Abookamongstthemany

cornnifer wrote:

Go ahead and go out and cast your "see i'm a real rebel" ballot for Ralph fucking Nader or who ever the hell else. Its you're perogative and i respect it. i better not see you on here bitching when McCain takes office, though. i'll have to to call you on it.

Why? I won't be voting for McCain.


And for the record, it has shit to do with being a rebel. I'm all getting behind a movement that's worthy.

cornnifer

El_Kabong wrote:

it's a sad day to see ppl trying to bully the other into voting how they want them to....

Bully? Are you shitting me? i just said i don't care who you, abook, or anyone else votes for. by all means, vote for whoever you want. By all means, show the world how cool you are by voting for the guy that only nine other people voted for.
Bully. Sheesh.

cornnifer

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

Why? I won't be voting for McCain.


And for the record, it has shit to do with being a rebel. I'm all getting behind a movement that's worthy.

Uh huh. O.k.

:rolleyes:

cornnifer

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

Why? I won't be voting for McCain.


And for the record, it has shit to do with being a rebel. I'm all getting behind a movement that's worthy.

i might also add, that by voting for a waste of political space like ralph nader, Yes, Abook, you ARE voting for McCain.

El_Kabong

cornnifer wrote:

Bully? Are you shitting me? i just said i don't care who you, abook, or anyone else votes for. by all means, vote for whoever you want. By all means, show the world how cool you are by voting for the guy that only nine other people voted for.
Bully. Sheesh.

yes, the way you are so dismissive of others points of view is a bullying tactic. you are trying to delegitimize it by saying it's only a 'hey look at me, i'm a rebel!!!' vote or to 'show the world how cool you are by voting for the guy that only nine other people voted for.'

and you'd have to 'call us on it'...call us on what?? that we voted for who we wanted to vote for? that we voted for who best represented our stances? that has nothing to do w/ being 'cool'...now go vote for who the corporate media told you is the only realistic candidate and show the world how much of a follower you are, by all means. can you tell me why i should vote for him? other than your fear of "that bitch". clinton or mccain winning?

you are too aggressive

if only 9 other vote for someone else that's pretty shitty that obama couldn't win by more than 8 votes, i'd say losing by such a small margin doesn't make him very 'realistic' to me!!!

El_Kabong

cornnifer wrote:

i might also add, that by voting for a waste of political space like ralph nader, Yes, Abook, you ARE voting for McCain.

so you are against possibly taking a vote away from obama but you'd be happy if i took it away from mccain...stop trying to impose your vote on everyone else. i'm not voting for nader and i'm not voting for obama or clinton or mccain, so i'm taking a vote away from all of them, oh well, sorry you guys dislike MY choice to vote as i see fit, hopefully you'll find your way into getting over it someday

and to say if mccain wins it's our fault is absurd. unless the whole presidency comes down to 1 or 2 votes in South Carolina you are full of it

El_Kabong

why do i have a duty to vote for who you want me to? if i don't see the change you see in him why am i still obligated and duty stricken?? b/c it's what YOU want? get over yourselves, seriously