Uh oh Nader....

shadowcastshadowcast Posts: 2,231
edited February 2008 in A Moving Train
If he decides to run you can kiss a Democratic presidency good bye. I think he is going to run because why hasn't Ed supported anybody yet. The whole band in behind Obama except EV. I like Nader and all but this is awful timing and he wouldn't stand a chance. Can you say monkey wrench is the situation?

Here's the link

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080222/ap_on_el_pr/nader
Post edited by Unknown User on
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  • You base it on whether ed has or has not endorsed anyone?

    And I think that you are giving Nader way too much credit as a presidential candidate in 2008. In 2000, there was a ground swell of support, a terrible democratic nominee and coming off of a democratic whitehouse in scandal. I just don't see anyone noticing or caring this time around.
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    ― Abraham Lincoln
  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,117
    If he decides to run you can kiss a Democratic presidency good bye. I think he is going to run because why hasn't Ed supported anybody yet. The whole band in behind Obama except EV. I like Nader and all but this is awful timing and he wouldn't stand a chance. Can you say monkey wrench is the situation?

    Here's the link

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080222/ap_on_el_pr/nader


    that would make for some interesting concerts in this years VFC :D
  • Two things, I think...

    1) Nader is not going to have any impact on this election whatsoever. He hasn't even tried to campaign, as far as I could tell. Even in 2000, when a decent amount of people knew he was running, he barely made a dent as far as impacting any other candidate.

    2) Ed probably likes Hillary, and probably because he feels she is the strongest candidate to take down the Elephants-- looks like this is changing, I wouldn't be surprised if he jumped on the Obama wagon soon enough.

    I can't see him supporting Nader, especially after he didn't support Nader in '04, as he knew he needed every vote to count against Bush, and a protest vote for Nader would do more harm than help to that cause. I remember hearing that it caused a rift between him and Ralph, if I remember correctly. Anyway, Ed knew Kerry wasn't the best guy for the job (no one was in that election), and ideally he'd like to vote for Ralph over Kerry. To him, this election is like the last one-- focus on getting the Republicans out of office, and start rebuilding. There was some quote he used about having to rebuild the house that burned down from the foundation up-- meaning, "Yeah, I'd love to have Ralph as my president, but he isn't gonna win, so we'll have to back Kerry and settle for him, since he's better than Bush."

    I think Ed would like Paul, if it wasn't for his stance on abortion-- but again, any candidate that has no shot of winning / or can't take down the Republicans is probably not going to get Ed's vote. It'd be great to have either one of those guys as president as polar opposites as they are, because at least you know they care.

    The country needs revolution, but is going to have to settle for slow change, unfortunately.
  • And I just noticed that Nader is 2 years OLDER than McCain.... damn, that's old.
    My whole life
    was like a picture
    of a sunny day
    “We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
    ― Abraham Lincoln
  • I think he's only gonna run if Hillary's the nominee. I saw an interview with him a while back, and that's what he alluded to.
  • shadowcastshadowcast Posts: 2,231
    You all have made some great points and I know Nader does not have the political steam as he had in the past. But he still has some clout. It just seems that it is just bad timing on his part if he does run. This has been a very interesting year in politics and I am an independent but I really have been leaning over to the Dems over the past couple of months.
  • kenny olavkenny olav Posts: 3,319
    i find hard to imagine that Nader would have any sway over this election. very few people, myself included, who voted for him in 2000 have any desire to vote for him again. he did a lot of good, but he's gone overboard now. it really is egotistic for him think he's the best candidate to run every four years. i've been supporting Mike Gravel for about a year now because he's like Nader (he's actually a good friend of Nader) except a little better on the issues, i think, and he's also a more affable and personable guy - a better candidate. we need someone who is principled but also charismatic as well. i didn't think Nader was a great candidate in 2000 - I kinda feel like he blew it because of his TV appearances. but his experience and dedication is really unmatchable, so for that reason alone, he immediately seemed to be the right person to carry the 'progressive' mantle. and he gave it an honest try, but at this point i think he needs to wake up and realize he's hurting his reputation.

    Gravel, knowing he's obviously not going to be the Democratic nominee, is trying to coalesce the third parties behind him for a general election campaign - i have no idea if he can really do that, but the idea of 'third party coalescence' is something i've been wanting to see for years, and I think Gravel, with his liberal/libertarian stances, has the best ability of anyone to unite the Green, Libertarian, Natural Law and Reform parties... I'm sure Ron Paulies think so too. Gravel said he has a running mate in mind, and "that person happens to be a Democrat" so that leaves out Ron Paul, and I don't think it'd be Kucinich, but who knows?

    all that said, i have to admit i may decide to vote for the Democratic selection of the polyarchy on Nov 4.
  • LizardLizard So Cal Posts: 12,091
    Nader was on the green party ticket and another one that I cannot recall on my voter pamphlet (American Independent).
    So I'll just lie down and wait for the dream
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  • I think he's only gonna run if Hillary's the nominee. I saw an interview with him a while back, and that's what he alluded to.

    agreed... guess we'll find out what he has up his sleeve Sunday. If Hillary is the nominee and he runs I'm voting for him... McBush and Hillary are two of the same old dirty politicians.
    10.31.93 / 10.1.94 / 6.24.95 / 11.4.95 / 10.19-20.96 / 7.16.98 / 7.21.98 / 10.31.00 /8.4.01 Nader Rally/ 10.21.01 / 12.8-9.02 / 6.01.03 / 9.1.05 / 7.15-16,18.06 / 7.20.06 / 7.22-23.06 / Lolla 07
  • So I guess with the prevailing logic here, Ed is really to blame for Bush being elected becasue he so strongly supported Nader. If Hill doesn't take Texas, she's going to bail.
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  • The whole band in behind Obama except EV.

    Good for Ed!
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Dustin51Dustin51 Posts: 222
    Good guy. I voted for him in 2000 and I read one of his books but he will have no bearing on this race regardless of what he does.
    Be excellent to each other
  • People who use their vote to vote 'against' someone are the ones throwing away their votes. Not the people actually voting for someone like Nader who is a decent human being. The problem here is far too many people vote. You should have to fucking be literate in order to vote. You should have to prove you do more to educate yourself than going home and watching fox news every night while you eat your hot dogs and potato chips.
  • FinsburyParkCarrotsFinsburyParkCarrots Seattle, WA Posts: 12,223
    That doesn't sound very democratic.
  • THCTHC Posts: 525
    Good for Ed!

    why? if nadar runs this time around its nothing but an ego trip.
    i was at the anti-war rally..and although i love ralphy and respect him greatly for standing up for what is right. his speach was one of the least moving. its not his time...he should be a man and throw in the towel. fight a diff. fight.
    “Kept in a small bowl, the goldfish will remain small. With more space, the fish can grow double, triple, or quadruple its size.”
    -Big Fish
  • kenny olavkenny olav Posts: 3,319
    THC wrote:
    why? if nadar runs this time around its nothing but an ego trip.
    i was at the anti-war rally..and although i love ralphy and respect him greatly for standing up for what is right. his speach was one of the least moving. its not his time...he should be a man and throw in the towel. fight a diff. fight.


    i think abook's just saying good for Ed for not supporting Obama. it has nothing to do with Ed supporting Nader, if he even does this year...

    i don't know why Nader feels the need to run against... maybe it's not egotistic, tho i assumed it was, but maybe the guy feels like he has a mission and he can't give up until he wins. maybe he just doesn't know when to throw in the towel.
  • THC wrote:
    why? if nadar runs this time around its nothing but an ego trip.
    i was at the anti-war rally..and although i love ralphy and respect him greatly for standing up for what is right. his speach was one of the least moving. its not his time...he should be a man and throw in the towel. fight a diff. fight.

    I just don't believe Obama to be this wonderful gift that is going to bring all these kind of changes you guys think he is. Feel free to lap him up all you want but I'll pass. I'd have to compromise my ideals/principles to throw a vote his way and I'm just not going to do that again. I'm guessing that's partly why Ed hasn't said he's supporting him but what do I know?
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • I just don't believe Obama to be this wonderful gift that is going to bring all these kind of changes you guys think he is. Feel free to lap him up all you want but I'll pass. I'd have to compromise my ideals/principles to throw a vote his way and I'm just not going to do that again. I'm guessing that's partly why Ed hasn't said he's supporting him but what do I know?

    If I don't want another Republican president, I probably still feel like you ... but I vote for Obama anyway, because that's the only way to avoid the following phrase: "President McCain."
    everybody wants the most they can possibly get
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  • If I don't want another Republican president, I probably still feel like you ... but I vote for Obama anyway, because that's the only way to avoid the following phrase: "President McCain."

    Nothing will ever change if people keep giving in and settling for the two turds they put out there to choose from. That idea is more important to me than focusing on the whole Dem/Rep thing because to me they're pretty much the same thing anyway.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Nothing will ever change if people keep giving in and settling for the two turds they put out there to choose from. That idea is more important to me than focusing on the whole Dem/Rep thing because to me they're pretty much the same thing anyway.

    This is all true. But only one of two turds are gonna win. Which one you want?
    everybody wants the most they can possibly get
    for the least they could possibly do
  • This is all true. But only one of two turds are gonna win. Which one you want?

    Neither so I'm not voting for one. That would mean making the same mistake everyone else is making. There's no progress in that.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • shadowcastshadowcast Posts: 2,231
    Here’s the thing. There is nobody that will get into office that will ever be able to make a drastic change nowadays. But, you do need somebody to shake it up and start making gradual change. You know, break the ice and start those pistons up (with no blood on them). Then maybe just maybe we can start to get some new Nader type thinkers in there. But, it will be over time and I do believe Obama might be that guy. Remember when people would ask "Do you think there will be a Black president or a Woman president first". For some reason I always thought a woman and I think a lot of you thought that a well. But, if a black president is gets there first then I think we have a big cannonball breaking the ice and we have a jump start.
  • Here’s the thing. There is nobody that will get into office that will ever be able to make a drastic change nowadays. But, you do need somebody to shake it up and start making gradual change. You know, break the ice and start those pistons up (with no blood on them). Then maybe just maybe we can start to get some new Nader type thinkers in there. But, it will be over time and I do believe Obama might be that guy. Remember when people would ask "Do you think there will be a Black president or a Woman president first". For some reason I always thought a woman and I think a lot of you thought that a well. But, if a black president is gets there first then I think we have a big cannonball breaking the ice and we have a jump start.

    I used to think that way and then I decided to stop being part of the problem. The two major parties are mostly the same and don't allow for much change. I have issues with Obama and Hillary that I refuse to just ignore. The system is set so they have everyone scared to vote for someone they believe in for fear their vote will be meaningless. They stay in power this way despite how unsatisfied the citizenry is with our elected officials. The same creeps get in year after year and I've had enough. Standing behind something you believe in is not meaningless and no one else is going to do it for you. I don't see what's so great about Obama. How is he such a standout? There are plenty of you guys who think he is worth believing in
    and that's your opinion to have. But I don't share it and I won't be voting for him.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • HinnyHinny Posts: 1,610
    You guys really should adopt our preferential system. If your number 1 guy doesn't get elected, the full vote gets transferred onto your number 2.
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  • shadowcastshadowcast Posts: 2,231
    I used to think that way and then I decided to stop being part of the problem. The two major parties are mostly the same and don't allow for much change. I have issues with Obama and Hillary that I refuse to just ignore. The system is set so they have everyone scared to vote for someone they believe in for fear their vote will be meaningless. They stay in power this way despite how unsatisfied the citizenry is with our elected officials. The same creeps get in year after year and I've had enough. Standing behind something you believe in is not meaningless and no one else is going to do it for you. I don't see what's so great about Obama. How is he such a standout? There are plenty of you guys who think he is worth believing in
    and that's your opinion to have. But I don't share it and I won't be voting for him.

    That is a great point but we are becoming more and more liberal. For example and this might get wordy. Let's take something like MTV. People might bash it because it is a commercial whore and they don't play videos but it has made the youth a lot more liberal. Liberal in ways like accepting gays, minorities, different culture ya know? It is also a rating GIANT and it's demographic in what 22 and under? What it has done is chipped away at society so they are more accepting and learning that different people are ok. So mix this demographic with Obama who has not been tainted by Washington yet..... Then you might start getting that fire power that might lead to new type of Nader. It's worth a shot and we need a Hail Mary if you will. So Obama might be that guy. Basically I just want someone who gives a shit.
  • Hey - I watch FOX News..... And CNN.....AND MSNBC - and other local News Stations. Right Wing, Left Wing - is there truly such a thing as "fair and balanced?" I just try to educate myself. Like we all do.
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  • FinsburyParkCarrotsFinsburyParkCarrots Seattle, WA Posts: 12,223
    I think there are only two reasons you Americans have for voting, this year:

    (a) To make sure Clinton doesn't get the Democratic nomination

    and (b) To make sure McCain doesn't win.

    Exercising a precious, principled vote is your right and constitutional privilege but it's also a bit selfish, and self-righteous to put your hallowed views above a sense of duty to others, who are backing the only realistic alternative (however similar to the bad guys you might see him). Don't vote for the person who best shares your opinions, the visionary in the wilderness. Vote for the person who will keep Clinton or McCain away from The White House. Obama mightn't be Che Guevara, but he's better than the alternatives.

    It's time to grow up and join the movement, and leave people such as Nader to your days of over-worthy adolescence.
  • Not being an American I feel like i'm walking on eggs, still. How does Nader reckon he needs a mere $10 million whereas Clinton and Obama and McCain and the others have far, far more for their campaigns?

    It's like "Oh we needn't a sherpa, warm clothes, a tent, food, drink or icepicks - we'll walk up to Mt. Everest!"
    C'est une belle histoire
  • I like Nader and all but this is awful timing
    lol...people say that every election he runs in.
  • I think there are only two reasons you Americans have for voting, this year:

    (a) To make sure Clinton doesn't get the Democratic nomination

    and (b) To make sure McCain doesn't win.

    Exercising a precious, principled vote is your right and constitutional privilege but it's also a bit selfish, and self-righteous to put your hallowed views above a sense of duty to others, who are backing the only realistic alternative (however similar to the bad guys you might see him). Don't vote for the person who best shares your opinions, the visionary in the wilderness. Vote for the person who will keep Clinton or McCain away from The White House. Obama mightn't be Che Guevara, but he's better than the alternatives.

    It's time to grow up and join the movement, and leave people such as Nader to your days of over-worthy adolescence.

    Sorry, I'm not on board with 'growing up' and being part of keeping the same two party system trucking along. The same system that people have been unhappy with for as long as I can remember but continue to support because they are afraid to support anyone the media deems as 'unelectable'. The same system where yes, the candidates have very little difference, are all backed by corporate interests, and offer little more than hot air when it comes to really doing what's best for the american people. It makes no sense to me to vote for people who I view as part of the problem and I won't be a part of it anymore. I'm not following the flock and their bad choice this time and it's my right to disagree and stand up for my 'selfish' principles which oddly enough are mostly centered around altruistic ideals.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
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