Obama actually listens to this racist guy?

cornnifer

lazymoon13 wrote:

I havent decided who I'm voting for yet. I was leaning towards obama until this broke. this is really hurting him among independents.

No it isn't. Not anymore.

lazymoon13

cornnifer wrote:

Whatever. Don't vote for him. Thats your perogative. You might try to unstick yourself from the mud your stuck in though. With that, i'm done talking about this here. I'd rather discuss shit that really matters.

ok see ya.

RainDog

lazymoon13 wrote:

I havent decided who I'm voting for yet. I was leaning towards obama until this broke. this is really hurting him among independents.

So I guess the question for you is, what would you have Obama do?

lazymoon13

RainDog wrote:

So I guess the question for you is, what would you have Obama do?

what do you mean? I thought his speech was great. but there is nothing he can do. can't take back 20 years of support.

RainDog

lazymoon13 wrote:

what do you mean? I thought his speech was great. but there is nothing he can do. can't take back 20 years of support.

So then it either has or it hasn't hurt him among independents - probably depending on the individual independent. It no longer "is" hurting him among independents.

If there's nothing he can do, then the issue is done. How much damage was caused? Arguably some, but it doesn't seem to be a campaign killer.

lazymoon13

RainDog wrote:

So then it either has or it hasn't hurt him among independents - probably depending on the individual independent. It no longer "is" hurting him among independents.

If there's nothing he can do, then the issue is done. How much damage was caused? Arguably some, but it doesn't seem to be a campaign killer.

that remains to be seen. this is undoubtedly come up again during debates. november is a long way away.

ledvedderman

I'm sure every week was a sermon like the 20 seconds total you've seen of them. If you did your research you would see that he has given some amazing sermons that will move you.

So he flew off the handle a couple of time. I do too when I get pissed off. Why should Obama be sorry for something that should have no effect on him as a person or a Presidential candidate? He was married at that church and his children were baptized there, those are events I am sure he is reminded of when he walks into that church.

Urban Hiker

ledvedderman wrote:

I've been a member of a very conservative Lutheran church my whole life. My pastor has gone on rants about abortion, gay rights, and many other things I don't agree with.

Does this mean that I am embracing one man's opinion because I have a personal history at my church? No. I'm respecting my family's history and beliefs. I go to church there because it's where my niece and nephew were baptized, and it's nice to go as a family.

Do churches still collect money to keep things going? Do you give money to this church to keep things going, i.e., help that pastor spread messages of intolerance?

You may not embrace his opinion, but a pastor is supposed to be respected member of the community. Someone a congregation would look to to gain greater insight on troubling topics.

I think anyone who uses that to spread messages of intolerance and/or hate needs to step away from the mike. :cool:

lazymoon13

ledvedderman wrote:

I'm sure every week was a sermon like the 20 seconds total you've seen of them. If you did your research you would see that he has given some amazing sermons that will move you.

So he flew off the handle a couple of time. I do too when I get pissed off. Why should Obama be sorry for something that should have no effect on him as a person or a Presidential candidate? He was married at that church and his children were baptized there, those are events I am sure he is reminded of when he walks into that church.

I'm not doubting for a second that he has some moving speeches. thats besides the point.

ask obama why he should be sorry, he has denounced the pastor. and I'm sorry but it absolutely does have an effect on him as a person. he hears those type of rants, they are intended to get people pissed, and further divide whites/blacks.

I sometimes go to church too. I'm a catholic. If I ever heard my priest say anything remotely close to negative things about blacks, or imply we got what we deserve on 9/11 because of the government, I would stand up walk out and find a new church. thats just me

my2hands

Spinbrett wrote:

Obama listens to this guy. He blames rich white men for all the worlds problems. Did he forget that Obama is half white and was raised by whites? I guess if you are even 25% black, that makes you black. He even says Jesus was a poor black man and other anti white stuff. The worst thing is Obama listens to this fool for spiritual guidance. What a quack!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=oLgFf8EezKk

while you are focused on a powerless reverendspolitcal views THE WORLD IS BURNING...

so you prefer hillary or mccain?

my2hands

Spinbrett wrote:

Ferricon

did you figure out who "Ferricon" is and how to spell his name yet?

RainDog

lazymoon13 wrote:

that remains to be seen. this is undoubtedly come up again during debates. november is a long way away.

It could be more damaging in the primary than the general. If Obama gets the nomination, and the Republicans try to nail him with it, all the Democrats have to do is start tossing around some of Robertson's or Falwell's or Hagee's quotes. There is ripe fruit on the Christian Right.

An honest undecided voter will then see that the religious issue is a wash and move on to different issues to base their decision on.

lazymoon13

RainDog wrote:

It could be more damaging in the primary than the general. If Obama gets the nomination, and the Republicans try to nail him with it, all the Democrats have to do is start tossing around some of Robertson's or Falwell's or Hagee's quotes. There is ripe fruit on the Christian Right.

An honest undecided voter will then see that the religious issue is a wash and move on to different issues to base their decision on.

I agree the right have issues with christian wackos. but its mccain vs obama. mccain hasn't sat in church for 20 years listening to such hate speech. its easy for people to see the difference, this isnt a matter of extreme christian views vs extreme wright views.

RainDog

lazymoon13 wrote:

I agree the right have issues with christian wackos. but its mccain vs obama. mccain hasn't sat in church for 20 years listening to such hate speech. its easy for people to see the difference, this isnt a matter of extreme christian views vs extreme wright views.

As I stated before, Wright sells DVDs of his sermons. If there more, worse comments than the ones we hear over and over again on the news, we'd be hearing them as well. A couple minutes taken completely out of context does not make for enough material to cover 20 years. Like I said, an honest voter will see the religious issue as a wash and vote for one, the other, or neither based on other issues.

Now, I have an issue with it being called hate speech, because I don't hear it that way.

inmytree

lazymoon13 wrote:

I see you are an Obama supporter. I like obama too but doesn't this bother you at all that he was a member of this church for 20 years? wright says alot of hateful things. obama is asking for my vote, why should I give it to him when he embraced this type of hate speech for so long? (lets keep this civil if we can, I am not for or against obama, just looking for discussion)

for me...no...

I could care less what is pastor said...

I have to ask...why is this such a big deal...? it's not like Obama said these things himself....

so he may have sat and listened to his pastor say some things you or I may not agree with...so what...

Does everyone have to agree with everything their clergy says...?

I think people are making a big deal over nothing...

DixieN

ledvedderman wrote:

I've been a member of a very conservative Lutheran church my whole life. My pastor has gone on rants about abortion, gay rights, and many other things I don't agree with.

Does this mean that I am embracing one man's opinion because I have a personal history at my church? No. I'm respecting my family's history and beliefs. I go to church there because it's where my niece and nephew were baptized, and it's nice to go as a family.

I've been a member of no church all my life because I can't stand to perpetuate the anti-whatever rants of various church leaders. I could not go to a church that preached anti-white sentiments or anti-gay sentiments, etc. I can't quietly go and tacitly support the prejudiced statements of others. I feel that in doing so, I am supporting my own beliefs, the history of my family and the beliefs of my family be damned. (I sound something like Wright myself at the moment, it strikes me.) However, I do feel that way. On my father's side of the family are a bunch of fundamentalist and racist ministers. I don't need their history and beliefs as part of mine in my life. I vehemently reject what they have to say in no uncertain terms. I don't have to sit "politely" while other speak for me, no matter that what they say is not what I would ever say. Of course, this comes at a price, which not everyone is exactly thrilled to pay.

I am not trying to start anything or be unfriendly, however, as I do have a history of saying what I think and not standing by what others say quietly, I must say that I do not understand standing by Sunday after Sunday listening to someone expounding ideas that are so clearly wrong and saying nothing or doing anything to change the situation from the inside out. I do understand wanting to be part of a group, but surely there are other groups to be a member of that would more clearly echo one's beliefs. I don't understand allying oneself with a group that is fundamentally contrary to one's person.

You may not be embracing any particular person's beliefs by going a particular church, but you are enabling those beliefs as you are enabling the leader to continue to spread his or her beliefs to others throughout the years. They, in turn, will likely spread those beliefs, as well. You are very likely financially supporting the speaker with continued visits and tithes. At the very least you are an enabler of beliefs you find immoral. It is very close to embracing the beliefs, if you look at the practical outcome--so close that there is no real practical difference between embracing the beliefs and holding them at arms' length.

This is not intended to be a personal attack on you or on anyone. However, it is intended to be a reflection on why some people might not be keen to accept that Mr. Obama should be "absolved" of his relationship with the Rev. Wright and his beliefs. There is personal accountability in all we do. In my opinion, Sen. Obama enabled Wright for 20 years to say and spread hurtful beliefs. Mr. Obama says he has the courage to lead the country, but he didn't have the courage to even attempt to transform even one small group--he apparently did not even have the courage to try to transform the beliefs of even one man whom he admires. This doesn't exactly demonstrate presidential leadership to me.

lazymoon13

inmytree wrote:

for me...no...

I could care less what is pastor said...

I have to ask...why is this such a big deal...? it's not like Obama said these things himself....

so he may have sat and listened to his pastor say some things you or I may not agree with...so what...

Does everyone have to agree with everything their clergy says...?

I think people are making a big deal over nothing...

would democrats feel the same way if mccain's pastor said hateful things about gays, blacks, america, etc.....? the same church he sat in for 20 years? I find it hard to believe it would be ok. for me? I would have the same issues.

lazymoon13

RainDog wrote:

As I stated before, Wright sells DVDs of his sermons. If there more, worse comments than the ones we hear over and over again on the news, we'd be hearing them as well. A couple minutes taken completely out of context does not make for enough material to cover 20 years. Like I said, an honest voter will see the religious issue as a wash and vote for one, the other, or neither based on other issues.

Now, I have an issue with it being called hate speech, because I don't hear it that way.

well he said things like the KKA of America and told his black audience that blacks are fighting the wrong enemy in regards to black on black crime. you are entitled to your opinion but I see that as hate speech.

inmytree

lazymoon13 wrote:

would democrats feel the same way if mccain's pastor said hateful things about gays, blacks, america, etc.....? the same church he sat in for 20 years? I find it hard to believe it would be ok. for me? I would have the same issues.

again...I say "who cares"...

again, I have to ask, why is this an issue...? Obama did not say anything...

why must people link clergy with candidates...?

I really don't care what church anyone attends...

Abookamongstthemany

inmytree wrote:

again...I say "who cares"...

again, I have to ask, why is this an issue...? Obama did not say anything...

why must people link clergy with candidates...?

I really don't care what church anyone attends...

Frankly, I'm curious if there even exists an issue about Obama that wouldn't get the same 'who cares' reply.

****and as I've already stated, I don't think this issue is an important one. I only think it would indeed be pretty big for many of you if the names were switched with McCain or Hillary. I think it would be a big 'I care' issue then.