this is insane

jeffbr

don't gimme no wrote:

I'm so sick of people using the word "terrorist." Hezbollah are no more terrorists than Israel or Iran or the U.S. It's a fucking joke that's gotten way out of hand. Hezbollah are part of Lebanon, you know that.

OK, they're a political party linked to a number of terrorist acts. I'm pretty sure that makes the term 'terrorist' an accurate term to use, and much closer to the standard usage of the word than your example which becomes more broad and meaningless by including the US.

shiraz

ladygooddiva wrote:

i think the first step is to disarm them ....or to do a ceasefire

and than talk ...maybe ...

i think it´s near by to escalate if nobody finds a good way or sollution that will cool down the whole region ...but than we need all parties to accept
the solutions ...

They should have been disarmed 6 years ago (UN resolution), but there was no one to force them to do so. That is my point - if there's no one who can control Hizbullah then the troubles are soon to be happening again.

NMyTree

don't gimme no wrote:

Well that's how I read it.

Well, Hezbollah is part of Lebanon. Deal with it.

Deal with it? That's what Israel is doing!

Hizbullah is not taking care of the Lebanese people. They are barely doing any of the things you have mentioned. To boot, they have been using them as human shields and as decoys, in their strategy.

They also use Red Cross ambulances as transportation vehicles, for their operations.

You call that taking care of them? I call that dispicable and sickening!

Human Tide

shiraz wrote:

The Lebanese govt is insisting about these sheeba farms, a territory which doesn't belong to them. This is the only disputed issue, and it is clearly a Hizbullah interest. Once again, Lebanon acts as if it cares more about a group of terrorists than its own civilians. Israel accepted all terms, even the fact that Hizbullah will not be disarmed at the moment (though there is a UN resolution about that matter since 2000).

We can't give them a Syrian territory, the UN acknowledges that, the world acknowledges that, even Lebanon acknowledges that but it is still trying to defend Hizbullah's interests. Do you realize what's going on? Its like they'll demand the Palestinian areas for themselfs, those impotent bastards are blocking the cease-fire for the sake of Hizbullah!

And the Russians... What the hell is wrong with them? They decided its better to have a 72 hours of cease-fire, than have an agreement for ending it all (?!?). They're gonna oppose the US-France draft and bring their own draft. cause they want to defend their great weapons consumers: Iran + Syria (= Hizbullah).

God, this is insane, I want my life back!

Syria considers it Lebanese territory. What's more important is actually the fact that it is not Israeli territory. There's a reasonable solution to this conflict. The Beirut declaration was a great place to start - it's a shame that wasn't taken more seriously.

Eliot Rosewater

jeffbr wrote:

OK, they're a political party linked to a number of terrorist acts. I'm pretty sure that makes the term 'terrorist' an accurate term to use, and much closer to the standard usage of the word than your example which becomes more broad and meaningless by including the US.

So both democrats and republicans are terrorists then too, right?

Eliot Rosewater

jeffbr wrote:

OK, they're a political party linked to a number of terrorist acts. I'm pretty sure that makes the term 'terrorist' an accurate term to use, and much closer to the standard usage of the word than your example which becomes more broad and meaningless by including the US.

My problem with the word "terrorist" is that people use it to label the "bad guys" when it's not as simple as good and bad. Yet they put that label on them and the whole fucking world is against them. It's total bullshit.

If you call Hezbollah terrorists then you have to call Israel terrorists. They're on both sides. Is Israel not just a larger, better funded terrorist in this situation?

shiraz

Human Tide wrote:

Syria considers it Lebanese territory.

Lets have a deal, shall we? you will actually read the WHOLE thread before responding, and than I replay to you without the risk of sounding like a broken record, ok?

Eliot Rosewater

Human Tide wrote:

Syria considers it Lebanese territory. What's more important is actually the fact that it is not Israeli territory. There's a reasonable solution to this conflict. The Beirut declaration was a great place to start - it's a shame that wasn't taken more seriously.

Yes, but apparently Israel's opinion is all that matters to some here.

Eliot Rosewater

shiraz wrote:

Lets have a deal, shall we? you will actually read the WHOLE thread before responding, and than I replay to you without the risk of sounding like a broken record, ok?

shiraz, I've read the thread. I simply disagree with you. According to both Syria and Lebanon, Sheeba Farms is Lebanese territory. And even if it's Syria's, then why doesn't Israel just get the fuck out already so Syria can hand it over to Lebanon?

Human Tide

shiraz wrote:

Lets have a deal, shall we? you will actually read the WHOLE thread before responding, and than I replay to you without the risk of sounding like a broken record, ok?

I don't see the point specifically addressed in this thread. Also, see my edited post for the more important statement.

shiraz

don't gimme no wrote:

Yes, but apparently Israel's opinion is all that matters to some here.

God, would you just read the thread (*edit - the "sheeba farms" one)? This is not an Israeli decision, but a UN one - Sheeba farns are an official Syrian territory.

NMyTree

don't gimme no wrote:

Yes, but apparently Israel's opinion is all that matters to some here.

No. That point was that it is NOT Israel's call or business, at all. That was the point ......all along.

good god!

ladygooddiva

shiraz wrote:

They should have been disarmed 6 years ago (UN resolution), but there was no one to force them to do so. That is my point - if there's no one who can control Hizbullah then the troubles are soon to be happening again.

i know but you can´t disarmed them if you don´t know where they all are and who support them ...it´s still difficult i think sad but true...

shiraz

Human Tide wrote:

I don't see the point specifically addressed in this thread. Also, see my edited post for the more important statement.

I'm soory, I meant to write - read the thread with the title "sheeba frams" or something like that.

* edit: here's the link:

http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=210860&page=4

You'll find it very interesting.

NMyTree

ladygooddiva wrote:

i know but you can´t disarmed them if you don´t know where they all are and who support them ...it´s still difficult i think sad but true...

Uh.....the whole world knows Iran supports and supplies them. As well as does Syria.

Eliot Rosewater

shiraz wrote:

I'm soory, I meant to write - read the thread with the title "sheeba frams" or something like that.

* edit: here's the link:

http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=210860

You'll find it very interesting.

Shiraz, I apologize.

ladygooddiva

NMyTree wrote:

Uh.....the whole world knows Iran supports and supplies them. As well as does Syria.

i think not only ...and by the way it´s a circle of trust lies brotherhood beliving etc.

where do you think for example years ago palestine gets their guns from ?
and why do you think is the israelis armee the strongest in the whole region ?

Human Tide

shiraz wrote:

I'm soory, I meant to write - read the thread with the title "sheeba frams" or something like that.

I don't have time to discuss the issue at length right now, but I feel that your argument is not very productive in terms of reaching a solution to this conflict.

It sounds to me as if you're looking for any excuse for why Israel should not exit the territory it is occupying. If Syria says the land belongs to Lebanon, then why should there be such a fuss about withdrawing? The Lebanese are ready to claim it as part of their county, and it serves as a solid part of a peace deal that could be easily brokered with the implementation of a robust peace-keeping force.

As I said, there is a reasonable solution to this violence and the wider conflict based upon a return of occupied land. Hezbollah will cease to exist as a militia in time. They were formed to force Israel out of Lebanon and I believe the Lebanese will demand a transformation of Hizbollah when the territorial issues are worked out. The issue is complex and undoubtedly involves the Palestinian issue and the Golan heights, but the solution is evident. Israel's security is in its own hands, but the occupation of the West Bank, the Golan Heights, and the Shebaa Farms needs to end.

Let me also point out that the Lebanese were sharply divided over Hizbollah before this round of fighting started. Many Lebanese wanted them out of southern Lebanon. However, an invaded country is unlikely to sympathize with the invaders and will instead support their own people. Israel's course of action was not very wise.

I need to head out for a while, but I'll try to check back tonight or tomorrow morning.

shiraz

don't gimme no wrote:

Or maybe you could stop spamming the board with your pro-western agenda. Certainly your original post should have been posted to the sheeba farms thread.

here we go again, I'm now "spaming the board with pro-western agenda" cause you don't agree with me. This thread deals with the current UN draft, no specifically the sheeba farms. In fact, we were mainly talking about the UNIFIL forces so I really don't know what is it that you want.

Eliot Rosewater

Human Tide wrote:

If Syria says the land belongs to Lebanon, then why should there be such a fuss about withdrawing?

The answer is pride. Israel is too fucking proud for peace. They view Hezbollah as terrorists but don't realize that they are as well. So when they label Hezbollah as terrorists then they have this arrogant view about not negotiating with terrorists. It's childish and will not result in peace.