Yes, but apparently Israel's opinion is all that matters to some here.
God, would you just read the thread (*edit - the "sheeba farms" one)? This is not an Israeli decision, but a UN one - Sheeba farns are an official Syrian territory.
They should have been disarmed 6 years ago (UN resolution), but there was no one to force them to do so. That is my point - if there's no one who can control Hizbullah then the troubles are soon to be happening again.
i know but you can´t disarmed them if you don´t know where they all are and who support them ...it´s still difficult i think sad but true...
Uh.....the whole world knows Iran supports and supplies them. As well as does Syria.
i think not only ...and by the way it´s a circle of trust lies brotherhood beliving etc.
where do you think for example years ago palestine gets their guns from ?
and why do you think is the israelis armee the strongest in the whole region ?
I'm soory, I meant to write - read the thread with the title "sheeba frams" or something like that.
I don't have time to discuss the issue at length right now, but I feel that your argument is not very productive in terms of reaching a solution to this conflict.
It sounds to me as if you're looking for any excuse for why Israel should not exit the territory it is occupying. If Syria says the land belongs to Lebanon, then why should there be such a fuss about withdrawing? The Lebanese are ready to claim it as part of their county, and it serves as a solid part of a peace deal that could be easily brokered with the implementation of a robust peace-keeping force.
As I said, there is a reasonable solution to this violence and the wider conflict based upon a return of occupied land. Hezbollah will cease to exist as a militia in time. They were formed to force Israel out of Lebanon and I believe the Lebanese will demand a transformation of Hizbollah when the territorial issues are worked out. The issue is complex and undoubtedly involves the Palestinian issue and the Golan heights, but the solution is evident. Israel's security is in its own hands, but the occupation of the West Bank, the Golan Heights, and the Shebaa Farms needs to end.
Let me also point out that the Lebanese were sharply divided over Hizbollah before this round of fighting started. Many Lebanese wanted them out of southern Lebanon. However, an invaded country is unlikely to sympathize with the invaders and will instead support their own people. Israel's course of action was not very wise.
I need to head out for a while, but I'll try to check back tonight or tomorrow morning.
Or maybe you could stop spamming the board with your pro-western agenda. Certainly your original post should have been posted to the sheeba farms thread.
here we go again, I'm now "spaming the board with pro-western agenda" cause you don't agree with me. This thread deals with the current UN draft, no specifically the sheeba farms. In fact, we were mainly talking about the UNIFIL forces so I really don't know what is it that you want.
If Syria says the land belongs to Lebanon, then why should there be such a fuss about withdrawing?
The answer is pride. Israel is too fucking proud for peace. They view Hezbollah as terrorists but don't realize that they are as well. So when they label Hezbollah as terrorists then they have this arrogant view about not negotiating with terrorists. It's childish and will not result in peace.
Or maybe you could stop spamming the board with your pro-western agenda. Certainly your original post should have been posted to the sheeba farms thread.
Are you capable of getting through one post, without attacking and insulting someone?
Seems to me every time you screw up the facts, misinterpret or someone disagrees with you, you resort to attacks. What's up with that?
If Syria says the land belongs to Lebanon, then why should there be such a fuss about withdrawing?
The answer is pride. Israel is too fucking proud for peace. They view Hezbollah as terrorists but don't realize that they are as well. So when they label Hezbollah as terrorists then they have this arrogant view about not negotiating with terrorists. It's childish and will not result in peace.
it´s more than that belive me i was in my early days in groubs where israelis and
palestinian where talking about thoose stuffes in this region .it´s really complicated ..and if palestine doesn´t get his own free state and get respect
i don´t think there will be peace ...
Are you capable of getting through one post, without attacking and insulting someone?
Seems to me every time you screw up the facts, misinterpret or someone disagrees with you, you resort to attacks. What's up with that?
Interesting. Maybe you're thinking of someone else because I rarely, if ever attack anyone on here. Feel free to review my posts if you disagree. You are right about this one though...I apologize and I'll edit my other post.....even though on any given thread you'll read someone bitching about posting the same topic several different times, as is the case here.
I don't have time to discuss the issue at length right now, but I feel that your argument is not very productive in terms of reaching a solution to this conflict.
It sounds to me as if you're looking for any excuse for why Israel should not exit the territory it is occupying. If Syria says the land belongs to Lebanon, then why should there be such a fuss about withdrawing? The Lebanese are ready to claim it as part of their county, and it serves as a solid part of a peace deal that could be easily brokered with the implementation of a robust peace-keeping force.
As I said, there is a reasonable solution to this violence and the wider conflict based upon a return of occupied land. Hezbollah will cease to exist as a militia in time. They were formed to force Israel out of Lebanon and I believe the Lebanese will demand a transformation of Hizbollah when the territorial issues are worked out. The issue is complex and undoubtedly involves the Palestinian issue and the Golan heights, but the solution is evident. Israel's security is in its own hands, but the occupation of the West Bank, the Golan Heights, and the Shebaa Farms needs to end.
Let me also point out that the Lebanese were sharply divided over Hizbollah before this round of fighting started. Many Lebanese wanted them out of southern Lebanon. However, an invaded country is unlikely to sympathize with the invaders and will instead support their own people. Israel's course of action was not very wise.
I'm not trying anything, just saying the relevant facts - all the UN resolutions regarding this matter said this is a Syrian land (not Israel's nor Lebanon's), hence, Hizbullah has no right to calim it as much as we don't. That's why this land should be returned to Syria under an orgenized agreement.
About the other issues: as I said, Hizbullah are now refusing to have an Int armed forces who can control them, and that was the NEW MAIN reason for them to block the cease-fire. The new draft apparently find an intermediate solution - 15,000 UN "peace keepers" who'll have some military authority.
My point is - it seems there's always an excuse for the Hizbullah, Sheeba farms or no Sheeba farms.
Interesting. Maybe you're thinking of someone else because I rarely, if ever attack anyone on here. Feel free to review my posts if you disagree. You are right about this one though...I apologize and I'll edit my other post.....even though on any given thread you'll read someone bitching about posting the same topic several different times, as is the case here.
the thing is - I didn't do that, and even if I did you could have used other words than "spaming the board with pro-western agenda". Face it, if I had been "spaming" the board with your "agenda" (whatever that means), you would'nt have said a word.
The answer is pride. Israel is too fucking proud for peace. They view Hezbollah as terrorists but don't realize that they are as well. So when they label Hezbollah as terrorists then they have this arrogant view about not negotiating with terrorists. It's childish and will not result in peace.
Israel has a long standing policy of "land for peace." Israel implemented this policy with the Sinai. They gave back the Sinai in exchange for peace with Eygpt. If the Syrians showed a real interest in making peace then maybe there could be discussion over the Shebaa Farms and the Golan. However I fail to see why Israel should make concessions when they continue being attacked by Syria's proxies (Hezbollah). The irony is that Hezbollah continues to attack Israel saying that they are doing so to liberate land, when the best proven means of getting land back from Israel is to make peace with her.
Sunday, I can make it till another day if that means I can finaly get my life back!!!
I'm trying to search for details in English...
Let's see if it will last.....my heart wants it to...for some reason my gut says it won't...but I hope I am wrong...for your sakes and others in the reigon...good luck....
Let's see if it will last.....my heart wants it to...for some reason my gut says it won't...but I hope I am wrong...for your sakes and others in the reigon...good luck....
The news said both Israeli & Lebanese prime ministers accepted the agreement and about to bring it to their govt approval on Sunday. Dont know about the lebanese govt, but Israel will aprove it.
The news said both Israeli & Lebanese prime ministers accepted the agreement and about to bring it to their govt approval on Sunday. Dont know about the lebanese govt, but Israel will aprove it.
Why wouldn't they...I think one issue is will Hezbollah stop?
For the Israeli and Lebanese families who have had to endure so much in these past weeks, I hope that this is true. Its truly unfortunate that there have been so many casualties on both sides. One can only hope that this leads to a long-term resolution to this ongoing dispute.
I'm not trying anything, just saying the relevant facts - all the UN resolutions regarding this matter said this is a Syrian land (not Israel's nor Lebanon's), hence, Hizbullah has no right to calim it as much as we don't. That's why this land should be returned to Syria under an orgenized agreement.
About the other issues: as I said, Hizbullah are now refusing to have an Int armed forces who can control them, and that was the NEW MAIN reason for them to block the cease-fire. The new draft apparently find an intermediate solution - 15,000 UN "peace keepers" who'll have some military authority.
My point is - it seems there's always an excuse for the Hizbullah, Sheeba farms or no Sheeba farms.
Come on now, this argument does not hold much water. As I pointed out, Syria itself supports the Lebanese claim to the land. This is certainly different from the Israeli position and it is misleading to suggest that Israel and Lebanon are equally lacking in a justification for claiming it. I'm sure Syria and Lebanon would be more than willing to arrange whatever UN hearings are necessary to "officially" transfer ownership if Israel would withdraw. By the way, since when was Israel so interested in UN positions with regard to borders and land? It seems that they have nothing but contempt for the UN when it comes to such resolutions.
I do not say these things out of support for Hizbollah. Rather, the points really get at the heart of the matter - land. Not just Lebanese and Syrian land, but all the land occupied since 1967. As I said before, the Lebanese were not and still are not all fans of Hizbollah. With a political process to settle the conflict, many Lebanese would be thrilled to see Hizbollah's militia dissolved or merged with the national army.
Whether or not the UN considers it Syrian territory is irrelevant with respect to Israel's refusal to negotiate a withdrawal from the territory. You said an organized agreement would be the way to go for returning the land to Syria. That sounds great, except that Israel is not willing. As I already mentioned, the Beirut declaration would be a great starting point for a comprehensive peace agreement. Israel, however, is clinging to the West Bank and it's massive, illegal settler movement.
Unfortunately, I have to say that it is Israel providing the excuses for Hizbollah. If they were to actually show a willingess to negotiate a settlement, Hizbollah would face those internal pressures I spoke about and likely have to change its face.
Hizbollah and Israel are both great at making terrible decisions that harm the civilians of their country. This invasion and subsequent war were not necessary. Hizbollah's defeat will most likely be political in the end, and I think Israel knew this all along.
Comments
God, would you just read the thread (*edit - the "sheeba farms" one)? This is not an Israeli decision, but a UN one - Sheeba farns are an official Syrian territory.
No. That point was that it is NOT Israel's call or business, at all. That was the point ......all along.
good god!
i know but you can´t disarmed them if you don´t know where they all are and who support them ...it´s still difficult i think sad but true...
I'm soory, I meant to write - read the thread with the title "sheeba frams" or something like that.
* edit: here's the link:
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=210860&page=4
You'll find it very interesting.
Uh.....the whole world knows Iran supports and supplies them. As well as does Syria.
i think not only ...and by the way it´s a circle of trust lies brotherhood beliving etc.
where do you think for example years ago palestine gets their guns from ?
and why do you think is the israelis armee the strongest in the whole region ?
I don't have time to discuss the issue at length right now, but I feel that your argument is not very productive in terms of reaching a solution to this conflict.
It sounds to me as if you're looking for any excuse for why Israel should not exit the territory it is occupying. If Syria says the land belongs to Lebanon, then why should there be such a fuss about withdrawing? The Lebanese are ready to claim it as part of their county, and it serves as a solid part of a peace deal that could be easily brokered with the implementation of a robust peace-keeping force.
As I said, there is a reasonable solution to this violence and the wider conflict based upon a return of occupied land. Hezbollah will cease to exist as a militia in time. They were formed to force Israel out of Lebanon and I believe the Lebanese will demand a transformation of Hizbollah when the territorial issues are worked out. The issue is complex and undoubtedly involves the Palestinian issue and the Golan heights, but the solution is evident. Israel's security is in its own hands, but the occupation of the West Bank, the Golan Heights, and the Shebaa Farms needs to end.
Let me also point out that the Lebanese were sharply divided over Hizbollah before this round of fighting started. Many Lebanese wanted them out of southern Lebanon. However, an invaded country is unlikely to sympathize with the invaders and will instead support their own people. Israel's course of action was not very wise.
I need to head out for a while, but I'll try to check back tonight or tomorrow morning.
here we go again, I'm now "spaming the board with pro-western agenda" cause you don't agree with me. This thread deals with the current UN draft, no specifically the sheeba farms. In fact, we were mainly talking about the UNIFIL forces so I really don't know what is it that you want.
Are you capable of getting through one post, without attacking and insulting someone?
Seems to me every time you screw up the facts, misinterpret or someone disagrees with you, you resort to attacks. What's up with that?
it´s more than that belive me i was in my early days in groubs where israelis and
palestinian where talking about thoose stuffes in this region .it´s really complicated ..and if palestine doesn´t get his own free state and get respect
i don´t think there will be peace ...
I'm not trying anything, just saying the relevant facts - all the UN resolutions regarding this matter said this is a Syrian land (not Israel's nor Lebanon's), hence, Hizbullah has no right to calim it as much as we don't. That's why this land should be returned to Syria under an orgenized agreement.
About the other issues: as I said, Hizbullah are now refusing to have an Int armed forces who can control them, and that was the NEW MAIN reason for them to block the cease-fire. The new draft apparently find an intermediate solution - 15,000 UN "peace keepers" who'll have some military authority.
My point is - it seems there's always an excuse for the Hizbullah, Sheeba farms or no Sheeba farms.
the thing is - I didn't do that, and even if I did you could have used other words than "spaming the board with pro-western agenda". Face it, if I had been "spaming" the board with your "agenda" (whatever that means), you would'nt have said a word.
Ok.
Israel has a long standing policy of "land for peace." Israel implemented this policy with the Sinai. They gave back the Sinai in exchange for peace with Eygpt. If the Syrians showed a real interest in making peace then maybe there could be discussion over the Shebaa Farms and the Golan. However I fail to see why Israel should make concessions when they continue being attacked by Syria's proxies (Hezbollah). The irony is that Hezbollah continues to attack Israel saying that they are doing so to liberate land, when the best proven means of getting land back from Israel is to make peace with her.
Could it be I'm about to get out of this shelter?!?
Good....details please.....
Sunday, I can make it for another day if that means I can finaly get my life back!!!
I'm trying to search for details in English...
Let's see if it will last.....my heart wants it to...for some reason my gut says it won't...but I hope I am wrong...for your sakes and others in the reigon...good luck....
The news said both Israeli & Lebanese prime ministers accepted the agreement and about to bring it to their govt approval on Sunday. Dont know about the lebanese govt, but Israel will aprove it.
Why wouldn't they...I think one issue is will Hezbollah stop?
I think if Siniora said he accepts the deal, it means Hizbullah are accepting it as well. Now lets hope I'm right on that one.
I hope you are right...
Come on now, this argument does not hold much water. As I pointed out, Syria itself supports the Lebanese claim to the land. This is certainly different from the Israeli position and it is misleading to suggest that Israel and Lebanon are equally lacking in a justification for claiming it. I'm sure Syria and Lebanon would be more than willing to arrange whatever UN hearings are necessary to "officially" transfer ownership if Israel would withdraw. By the way, since when was Israel so interested in UN positions with regard to borders and land? It seems that they have nothing but contempt for the UN when it comes to such resolutions.
I do not say these things out of support for Hizbollah. Rather, the points really get at the heart of the matter - land. Not just Lebanese and Syrian land, but all the land occupied since 1967. As I said before, the Lebanese were not and still are not all fans of Hizbollah. With a political process to settle the conflict, many Lebanese would be thrilled to see Hizbollah's militia dissolved or merged with the national army.
Whether or not the UN considers it Syrian territory is irrelevant with respect to Israel's refusal to negotiate a withdrawal from the territory. You said an organized agreement would be the way to go for returning the land to Syria. That sounds great, except that Israel is not willing. As I already mentioned, the Beirut declaration would be a great starting point for a comprehensive peace agreement. Israel, however, is clinging to the West Bank and it's massive, illegal settler movement.
Unfortunately, I have to say that it is Israel providing the excuses for Hizbollah. If they were to actually show a willingess to negotiate a settlement, Hizbollah would face those internal pressures I spoke about and likely have to change its face.
Hizbollah and Israel are both great at making terrible decisions that harm the civilians of their country. This invasion and subsequent war were not necessary. Hizbollah's defeat will most likely be political in the end, and I think Israel knew this all along.
For the record: "Spamming=Unsolicited advertising of a for-profit commercial/business.
Repeated threads of the exact same topic and content="Flooding"